- Thread starter BamaBrad
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I wouldn't use either one.
I'd call White Oak, Compass Lake, and/or Keystone Accuracy and ask them what they had on the shelf, and then I'd use that and be very, very happy.
-Nate
I'd call White Oak, Compass Lake, and/or Keystone Accuracy and ask them what they had on the shelf, and then I'd use that and be very, very happy.
-Nate
I've burned out a few rock creeks over the years, never an issue with the barrels ever.
Im on my 3rd rock creek barrel right now. Great barrels, cut rifled or not. My newest one is cut but only b/c thats all Josh had ready to go. The rest have been button barrels and were every bit as accurate as cut barrels.
I must be unlucky because I'm 0 for 4 with criterion barrels, in gas guns at least. Two of them shoot mediocre 1.0-1.5 MOA range. Two of them shoot like total garbage 3+ MOA. These are in rifles that are set up for accuracy.
A friend has a criterion on a savage bolt gun and it shoots amazingly.
No experience with Rock Creek.
A friend has a criterion on a savage bolt gun and it shoots amazingly.
No experience with Rock Creek.
Seekins uses Rock Creek Button barrels, not cut rifled. I am not aware of any Rock Creek Cut rifled AR barrels being sold. You would have to get a blank from somewhere like Bugholes and send it to someone like Keystone Accuracy to have it turned into an AR barrel.
Instead of doing all that I would just call Keystone Accuracy and have them ship you a Kreiger cut rifled AR15 barrel in whatever length, muzzle threads, contour, gas of your choosing since they have them on the shelf ready to go...
Yup.
My Bartlein 20" a la Keystone puts in verticals below 1/4 Minute with some of the snarkiest little fucking bullets I've ever worked around.
In fact, I am just about at the point where Scandale is now "my guy" for my AR's...and I'm really serious about the little black rifle. He's proven himself to be capable, have excellent machines, and he has also proven himself to sometimes just do what I ask and take my money, whether he fully agrees with me or not.
I appreciate that---if I NEED it---he can machine what I ask, instead of just what's on the shelf. Not all shops "have the time" to listen to that kind of request.
-Nate
Did the early pofs with rock barrels have rifled or button barrels? I have 3 and they are hammers. Looking at seekins uppers and 6.5s currently.
Maybe with some of the lower end button barrels... but theres no doubt you can hedge your bet in your favor with a higher end cut rifled tube. And most of the companies mentioned in this thread will take it back and replace it if it aint shootin up to snuff AFAIK..
What does "very happy" = in MOA...............for 10 shots?
My tikka pre-fit will do an easy .5 MOA 10 shot group if i do my part. It's a 26 inch Criterion. It might do better if a better shooter was behind the gun. It hammers.
You’re not the only one. I had a BCM SPR 18” that didn’t shoot for shit. Had them replace the barrel and it still didn’t shoot for shit.
Ran every factory match ammunition known to man, reloaded with every bullet/powder/primer/brass combination possible.
Scrapped the barrel and now run a Douglas barrel from compass lake and it put 77 smks into sub MOA groups consistently.
That's exactly what I did. Had the same barrel and replaced it with a CLE Douglas 18" that shot lights out.
Unfortunately after I shot that barrel out, I replaced it with an 18" Criterion also from CLE. It shoots about 3 MOA with the same ammo that shot sub MOA from the Douglas.
I had the same experiences with a stainless 18" barrel from BCM. It was lucky to be a 1 1/2" gun with every damn load I could find and handload! heck, my 300 upper shoots that decent! But, I will say my Rock barrel from Craddock shoots right around 1/2" maybe .6's consistently.
I just got a Shilen and going to try that prob. next week. So, I am excited to compare the two.
I just got a Shilen and going to try that prob. next week. So, I am excited to compare the two.
Wow some good info here for my future next ar build
What contour is it? Caliber?
It's a 26 inch inch heavy varmint 260
Criterion' s like to be shot dirty. I have 3 two BCM and one CL 16" rifle gas. I had the same issues until I read to not clean. 25-50 rounds into shooting it will tighten up and mine are all under .5 moa now. I simple do not clean them at all, even suppressed and they shoot great.
My seekins precision AR-15 barrel shot pretty bad. 1.25MOA was about the best I ever got for repeated 5 shot groups. 1.5 - 5 MOA was the typical spread.
Going to try a CLE Criterion...
Going to try a CLE Criterion...
For what it's worth, I tried a Criterion 20" hybrid chrome lined barrel last May. I shot about 400 rounds of hand loads using various bullet weights including the always accurate 23.5 8208 W/ a Sierra 77 MK. Barrel shot 1.5+ MOA most of the time. The only bullet it shot MOA was a 62 gr. Hornady OTM. All of the heavier bullets shot poorly.
I sent it back for a refund. This was the same barrel Criterion used for their you tube video for the chrome lined hybrid series. Of course their test barrel shot -1MOA with all loads.
I sent it back for a refund. This was the same barrel Criterion used for their you tube video for the chrome lined hybrid series. Of course their test barrel shot -1MOA with all loads.
I have a 24-inch Criterion Barrel from Fulton Armory on my LR-308 in 308 Winchester. It's certainly not as accurate as my PRS match rifle, which is a 1/4 or 3/8 MOA shooter consistently, but I am able to shoot 3/4 to .9 MOA groups for 5 shots.
The rifle is an M5E1 Aero Precision build. It has a Larue MBT-2S trigger, Toolcraft NiB BCG, H2 Buffer, Superlative arms adjustable gas block, and it's toppied with a Vortex Gen II Viper 3-15x. In hindsight, I probably would've saved the money and gone with a cut rifle barrel from a top barrel maker. I'll be honest in that I wasn't able to shoot sub-moa with this rifle for quite some time. Shooting a gas gun with precision was really hard for me and it took me a lot of practice and trouble shooting, but after about 1,000 rounds down the tube I got the hang of it.
Photo below is some of the best groups I've shot. Bottom group is 168gr A-max with H4895 for 10 shots, however I did run into pressure with this load and stopped using it. I also miraculously shot a few 1.5 inch groups at 300 yards with the top load which is basically a 175gr FGMM clone. I use 41.8gr of IMR 4064 with a 175gr SMK and 210M primer in LC brass.
The rifle is an M5E1 Aero Precision build. It has a Larue MBT-2S trigger, Toolcraft NiB BCG, H2 Buffer, Superlative arms adjustable gas block, and it's toppied with a Vortex Gen II Viper 3-15x. In hindsight, I probably would've saved the money and gone with a cut rifle barrel from a top barrel maker. I'll be honest in that I wasn't able to shoot sub-moa with this rifle for quite some time. Shooting a gas gun with precision was really hard for me and it took me a lot of practice and trouble shooting, but after about 1,000 rounds down the tube I got the hang of it.
Photo below is some of the best groups I've shot. Bottom group is 168gr A-max with H4895 for 10 shots, however I did run into pressure with this load and stopped using it. I also miraculously shot a few 1.5 inch groups at 300 yards with the top load which is basically a 175gr FGMM clone. I use 41.8gr of IMR 4064 with a 175gr SMK and 210M primer in LC brass.
Attachments
Craddock says accuracy is the same between cut & buttoned & he sells both; life is the only difference.
MM
Honestly, I don't think a consistent 1.5 MOA (10 shots) out of a CL barrel is bad..............you just cannot expect the same performance as you would get from a top shelf SS barrel & the Rock vs Criterion comparison that this thread is based on (at least in my view) is comparing an SS barrel from both sources.
MM
Contact Craddock Precision, Rock Creek, Bartlein, custom made and quick with great customer service
I couldn't disagree with you more. Go ahead and order one. Been hand loading for and shooting personally owned AR-15's since 1972. This is the video Criterion posted to compare their Hybrid barrel. My barrel shot nothing like this one, not even close.
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Unfortunately that video doesn’t really prove anything.
Run the same compensator on each rifle or none.
Not all compensators are created equal. While some are great in their intended for as a compensator they’re horrendous for accuracy.
Well, I shot my Criterion Hybrid barrel with a fucking thread protector on it. Fired 368 rounds through it. It shot like shit, so I returned it.
I’m not doubting you in the least. My comment was for the video alone.
I had two Criterion barrels that were absolute garbage. I’d never run one or recommend one.
I switched to Douglas barrels and haven’t looked back. In fact I was on the phone with one of the big name manufacturers y’all keep mentioning. When he found out I’m from WV he literally laughed and said why the hell are you calling me? You have the best SPR barrel manufacturer in your own back yard.
I bought the Criterion based on the video to replace a WOA barrel I wasn't happy with. I actually had a bad time with the WOA staff. Went through two barrels that didn't shoot well, went back and forth with them over it, to the point I won't buy another WOA. They tested the 2nd barrel, said it was good and basically told me to fuck off. Took a lot of shit over it on here. Craziest thing is this 2nd WOA barrel I was going to use it as a tent stake, but kept shooting it, after 2500 rds. down the tube, it settled down and is shooting well now.
I had good luck with a Rainier 18" 2nd gen. Ultra Match barrel.
I had good luck with a Rainier 18" 2nd gen. Ultra Match barrel.
Oddly enough the best gas gun barrel I have is a Lothar Walther, bought two of them with matching bolts and they are legit .5moa barrels.
Well, you can disagree all you want, but if CL barrels shot as well as SS barrels, there wouldn't be any need for the SS in the 1st place & we all know (maybe not quite all) that's not the case.
Criterion don't shoot, 2 WOA's don't shoot for you................what's common there?
MM
Some barrels are a waste of time. Just like some people.
Bullseye.................LOL
MM
MM
This is my Criterion 11.5" 1:7 CL barrel suppressed at 50 yards with mil spec plinking ammo. Wasn't shooting for outright accuracy. This is 50 rounds on target.
