Roll Sizing in Middle Tennessee

[MAHLMAN]

Not sure this is the right place for this but it does involve reloading. Is there anyone with a roll sizer in middle Tennessee willing to roll some 9mm? I am getting way to much case bulging loss no matter what I do and this seems to be the answer based on some roll sized brass I got in recently. Also looking for a southern middle Tennessee reloader willing to mentor a bit or let me watch and ask questions.

 

[CK1.0]

I don't have a roll sizer, but I am in the area and might be able to help a little. I am kind of wondering what you mean as far as "case bulge loss" that would make you want a roll sizer?
I've only really heard of guys who load in crazy high volume with tricked-out auto-drive setups and such really needing to invest in a roll sizer... wondering if you just need to make some adjustments to your setup instead?

What's your setup? Press? Die setup?

Rounds being out of shape can be a lot of things really: not resizing far enough down the case, too much flare, bullet too deep in the case, not enough or too much crimp, etc ...using a case gauge can help you figure it out.

I use a Hundo to check every round, and as I've got better as a reloader fewer and fewer rounds failed to pass the case gauge, to where now it's pretty rare when ones don't pass (and I shoot 100% range pick up brass). Even the few rounds that fail the Hundo still chamber and are just fine 99.9% of the time. I usually segregate them for training-only, but not always because the Hundo is overly cruel (a good thing really). If you don't already own one and you're loading in any sort of volume, you need one. $100 for a hunk of aluminum with a bunch of holes in it seems expensive, except when you consider that a decent case gauge that does only one at a time still costs $20, and is slow AF and you know you won't check every single round that way.

FWIW, I load my 9mm on a Dillon XL750 with case feeder and Mr. Bulletfeeder (fast, ammo-factory-style), but I do all my precision rifle stuff on a single-stage setup (slow, methodical) so I'm familiar with both.

BTW, the Brian Enos forum is probably a better source for info for anything 9mm-reloading-related... tons of info over there, you can literally search "any reloading term + 9mm + Brian Enos" and likely a thread with good info will show up.

 

[MAHLMAN]

I have an XL750 + case feeder also and use a Dillon gage. The problem I was running into was a bulge at the bottom of the case no matter where I set the resizer die height. Either a general bulge around the whole case or if I set the die as low as I could a small step like shoulder would be around the whole case or half of it. Most of the time they would not pass gage testing when pretty large but on others it would even though misshapen. I got a batch from Georgia Brass that had been roll formed and those worked like a charm and I did not have to reject any because of gage failure. I have sent you a PM

You mention most will still chamber and work for practice. I don't know how to assess what I am looking at because it is new to me. Last time I reloaded was with a rockchucker in the early 80's.

 

[CK1.0]

Are you using the Dillon dies?

If so, the Dillon sizing die can be a problem for some, it doesn’t size all the way down the cases (they sacrifice this so it’ll be forgiving when going fast, but it’s not really needed). The Dillon sizing die is what’s responsible for the “wasp waist” rounds (google it).
Usually guys can use them, but sometimes it’s easier/better to go to a different sizing die.

Could you be more detailed about what you’re up to: what dies in what order, COAL, bullet type/weight..?

 

[n0glock]

The Double Alpha expander die really helps, it comes with a Mr. Bullet feeder or you can buy it separately. I use one with my 550 and Dillon dies really helps take out the little bulge around half the case you were referring too.

 

[GONE BAD]

Lee Precision makes a bulge buster kit but I think they discontinued the one for the 9mm because everyone that had glocks was using them . Think unsupported case.
There thinking was ; used enough times the case would rupture at the base

 

[MTRecon]

A number of ranges are buying roll sizers for their members to use. Maybe check around.

The bulged brass I see comes from generous chambers like my old 5906, Glocks, etc and no die could correct it so I went with a roll sizer. As long as I used that brass in the 5906 everything was OK but it wouldn't work in my 1911s or race guns.

My 9mm Major brass doesn't bulge at all despite the high pressure given the fully supported and minimal dimensions of the chamber. I prefer the hour glass shape Dillon dies create to prevent bullet setback.

I now roll size everything and especially range pickup.

 

[MAHLMAN]

Debating the whole idea of case prep now. For the additional money to get processed brass is it really worth my time to do. Since I can't get free range brass to work with I am leaning this way. Got some from Brass Monkeyz to try and it saved a lot of grief. Which leads me to ask about getting my existing once fired brass processed. If anyone has a recommended processor in the south east I would like to get the info.

 

[S3th]

Run a LEE PRECISION 90860, Carbide Factory Crimp Die, 9mm Luger on your XL750

 

[Gustav7]

Debating the whole idea of case prep now. For the additional money to get processed brass is it really worth my time to do. Since I can't get free range brass to work with I am leaning this way. Got some from Brass Monkeyz to try and it saved a lot of grief. Which leads me to ask about getting my existing once fired brass processed. If anyone has a recommended processor in the south east I would like to get the info.

I feel like there has to be a solution besides roll sizing, at least for most of the cases. How often are you getting this bulge? If its more than a few cases here and there, I feel like it's gotta be something with the dies or process you have.

Run a LEE PRECISION 90860, Carbide Factory Crimp Die, 9mm Luger on your XL750

How would that help the bulge issue? Is the bulge happening after bullet seating?

 

[S3th]

I feel like there has to be a solution besides roll sizing, at least for most of the cases. How often are you getting this bulge? If its more than a few cases here and there, I feel like it's gotta be something with the dies or process you have.


How would that help the bulge issue? Is the bulge happening after bullet seating?

The factory crimp die will resize the whole case during crimping. I had several issues with the 9mm failing case gauge; range brass pick-up and brass shot out of my old glock. Everyone recommended that I get the above Lee die and since then, I have had zero issues. Every single brass that failed due to a bulge that was left unsized during the sizing stage was now sized.

 

[Gustav7]

The factory crimp die will resize the whole case during crimping. I had several issues with the 9mm failing case gauge; range brass pick-up and brass shot out of my old glock. Everyone recommended that I get the above Lee die and since then, I have had zero issues. Every single brass that failed due to a bulge that was left unsized during the sizing stage was now sized.

Very good info to know. I haven't had a real issue yet. Like I had 1 case in the last 1000 rounds, but it happens more often, maybe I'll look into that. Thanks

 

[S3th]

Very good info to know. I haven't had a real issue yet. Like I had 1 case in the last 1000 rounds, but it happens more often, maybe I'll look into that. Thanks

Before:

After running those that failed through Lee Factory Crimp:

 

[Hoser]

I have yet to have a roll sized case that would not gauge even before loading.

 

[CK1.0]

Before:
View attachment 7621377

After running those that failed through Lee Factory Crimp:
View attachment 7621379

Yep, the good ol' FCD is pragmatic... just know it's only treating the problem, it's not the cure. The FCD gets the rounds to pass the gauge by basically squashing them, which messes with seating depth and isn't the greatest for the bullet. Having to use an FCD works, but it also means there's something going on earlier in the production line that can be dialed in better, then there's no real need for an FCD.

That said, for a lot of shooters/reloaders (many of them good ones too), if it's usually only a few rounds that don't pass the gauge, then just using an FCD may be a better option than dicking around with the press and dies in order to not need to use one. I mean it's 9mm for ~25yrds, not precision rifle stuff.

I've used one quite a bit and know plenty of guys who still use 'em, the thing is: if like ~10 of your rounds out of 100 are failing the gauge before seeing an FCD, it's no bueno, something isn't right.

For a casual shooter/reloader: fuck yeah, buy an FCD.

 

[MAHLMAN]

I have a Lee FCD on the way. It looks like the right answer for rounds that won't gage. The rate of no go rounds here is going down but I have yet to figure out exactly how to eliminate them entirely if I am doing the case prep. Got a couple thousand cases in from Brass Monkeyz and they have worked with no trouble so far and saved a fair amount of time. I still want to be able to process here though just in case.

 

[Bullspotter]

I assume the ammo fired from your pistol is bugling the brass to the point you equipment will not take the bulge out? What is your load info? Powder charge, Coal and bullet wight? What Kind of pistol?

For the last 20 years i have used only range pickup brass, Never had to roll size any. 9mm and .40. I find my glocks and XDs have pretty loose chambers, and for the most part eat anything, 1911 and 2011s tighter. On the same note, If im running hot loads, they also tend to start bulging the brass, I was fast to come to the conclusion i dont need to push my reloaded ammo so hard, Backed my loads off to match factory 115 ammo, for 9mm, and Major PF for .40. none of my brass is bulged at all now.

I also inspect ALL range brass before it gets loaded, A lot of guys seem to push pistol loads to the max, Just last week i was at the local range and found about 200 or so 9mm cases, Being a horder, i got excited! Picked it all up, when picking it up i was looking at it, Severely bulged, some even looked like they had stress cracks, Pierced primers, and bad rings, Some of it looked like it was fired out of battery maybe, I junked it all to the scrap bucket. My though was holy Christ, who ever is shooting/Loading this needs to pay more attention to what is going on, wont be long before something bad happens. Maybe the shooter knew it was bad and left it?? The 2nd problem with this is the bad brass could be de primed, cleaned and roll sized, basically making it look like almost new and then sold, In my mind it is junk, and pry not safe.

 

[MAHLMAN]

What I fire does not bulge and my "once fired" sources are various vendors found online. 3.7 gr Titegroup for 147gr JHP and the same charge for 124gr RN FMJ. I am sure the cases giving trouble have been pushed too hard. I have seen a few split cases to and thought the same thing.

 

[MAHLMAN]

Run a LEE PRECISION 90860, Carbide Factory Crimp Die, 9mm Luger on your XL750

THIS is the answer I have been looking for. Really appreciate your tip.

 

[Hoser]

Keep an eye on accuracy with and without ammo using a FCD.

Sometimes the FCD can slightly reduce the bullet OD just enough to hurt accuracy. Sometimes not. Just depends.

They can also make a progressive press get really clunky. Add a little Hornady One Shot and it will help.

 

[S3th]

THIS is the answer I have been looking for. Really appreciate your tip.

Welcome!

 

[MAHLMAN]

Keep an eye on accuracy with and without ammo using a FCD.

Sometimes the FCD can slightly reduce the bullet OD just enough to hurt accuracy. Sometimes not. Just depends.

They can also make a progressive press get really clunky. Add a little Hornady One Shot and it will help.

I thought about that. I am going to pull some and see what the calipers have to say.

 

[MAHLMAN]

OK In pulled some 147gr HST bullets today after running loaded rounds through the FCD die. Still measures .355 with a good caliper. Now I also have some factory loaded 147gr HST rounds here and tried loaded rounds out in the FCD die. No resistance at all so I think at least with the 147gr HST bullets there is no problem using this die and there is a day and night difference between using and not using. This FCD die will go on the RL750 and replace the Dillon crimp die. For the money spent to get the four die Lee set compared to what I spent for the Dillon set I am thinking seriously about changing all the dies out to Lee on the 9MM and see how that works. I just assumed Dillon was the way to go but certainly have reservations on that now seeing what the Lee FCD die does.

After seeing this I have to think that factory loads may very well have something like the FCD as the last stage of loading. I know it will be that way here from now on.