• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

RRS Anvil question: rifle+Arca vs rifle+picatinny clamping reliability & strength

carbonbased

💥💥💥💥
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 26, 2018
4,628
7,814
Minnesota
So this is mainly directed towards @MPHReallyRightStuff but here’s the situation:

Since the Anvil and new RRS clamps have the dual Arca/pic rail interface, what are the trade offs if I clamp on a pic rail instead of an Arca plate? Strength? Durability? I imagine Arca will be better against torsional stress because it has more surface area. But does it matter?

Assume I’m clamping in the same spot on the rifle, right by the magwell. I’m using an RRS stand-alone clamp or Anvil clamp on a tripod. Guns could be light or 16 lbs heavy. I shoot mainly 204 and smaller, some 6 BR, occasionally 308/6.5 cm.

By experience I know getting a pic rail in the Anvil clamp is little more fussy than an Arca plate, and that pic rails seem to vary a lot more so twiddling with the clamp width will happen a bit more than with general Arca plates & non-RRS plates.


BACKGROUND
So I love the Arca interface. Used for decades with camera stuff, have a Whiskey 3 with metal Arca forend, blah blah it’s awesome.

The bit where Arca isn’t so great is if it’s right where you want to grab the rifle and walk with it. No, not in a PRS fashion but in a hunting situation.

Don’t talk to me about gloves. I’m not wearing gloves in 100°F heat or if I’m hiking in cooler temps but I’m hot.

I have a number of traditionally-stocked hunting rifles (wood and a Tikka roughtech) that I’ve been using a Vyce with because slapping a relatively large pokey bit of metal right where I’m grabbing the gun sort of sucks (and it’s ugly).

So it got me thinking about using a nice smooth pic rail, like the Area 419 one, right in front of the magwell instead. BTW that 419 rail has all the sharp edges rounded off.

If I had to choose between Arca or pic rail based purely on one-handed ease of carry, I’d go pic rail (only if it’s rounded off). Still ugly, but not as much as a relatively wide Arca plate on a thin-stocked hunting rifle.

I’ve also noticed Outdoorsmens are offering their own narrower Arca-like interface. Not sure if it’s for rifles and I have zero interest, but I get the appeal.

Ideally, the clamping interface would be set into the stock (like some flush DBM’s) so your hand never touches it. The top of the ballhead is like a mag or a series of pins that are inserted into the stock.

Anyway, appreciate your thoughts and advice.

Cue the guy that says, “Wear gloves,” in 3…2…1…FU buddy lol
 
Last edited:
I'd look at using an inletted Anschutz style fore-end rail and have a moveable 4 inch ARCA rail on that or go without any ARCA interface. I have rifles without Arca, and I don't plan on adding any. That is why you need to have a small table or plate attached to your Anvil-30. I made one from 1/4 inch thick 4x8 inch aluminum, added a 4 inch Arca rail to attach to the Anvil and placed a small flattish bag on top. The bag has a strap on one side, so I ran two velcro straps under and around said plate. Four notches keep the straps from sliding sideways. The Two Vets Recon 2 tripod with Anvil-30 and plate attached slide right into an old camp chair bag for transport. (And to all who are loyal RRS fans, I searched a long time for a TVC-33, but to no avail.) End of story.
 
I'd look at using an inletted Anschutz style fore-end rail and have a moveable 4 inch ARCA rail on that or go without any ARCA interface. I have rifles without Arca, and I don't plan on adding any. That is why you need to have a small table or plate attached to your Anvil-30. I made one from 1/4 inch thick 4x8 inch aluminum, added a 4 inch Arca rail to attach to the Anvil and placed a small flattish bag on top. The bag has a strap on one side, so I ran two velcro straps under and around said plate. Four notches keep the straps from sliding sideways. The Two Vets Recon 2 tripod with Anvil-30 and plate attached slide right into an old camp chair bag for transport. (And to all who are loyal RRS fans, I searched a long time for a TVC-33, but to no avail.) End of story.
So, where I shoot pdogs it is windy as heck. Sure is nice to leave the rifle clamped in the TVC-34/Vyce while I’m scanning for targets or laser ranging.

Can you walk away from your setup without fear of it falling over? Let’s not consider freak super strong gusts…yeah, those are gonna cause problems with any setup if you’re not laying hands on the rifle.

How is panning? I do a shit-ton of that with the rifle.
 
@carbonbased with our new R-Lock system of the rail and clamp package there is no difference regarding the lug system for recoil. There won’t be any shift using recoil anymore.

As far as pros and cons, using picatinny requires you to purposefully index the system when mounting. The 1.5” dovetails do not need that visual index or cant while mounting and you can easily slide forwards or back a little on a small section to fine tune your fit. When not using our new r-lock system or when using out of spec rails on our original style clamps, movement can occur since it is purely a friction style system. That’s about the only pro and con I have.

I personally do not like the feel of picatinny on my clavicle when I’m moving with it a long distance no matter if it has blended edges or not. Having the flat surface of a dovetail on my shoulder for a long hunt or long military movement feels much better if I’m not using a weapon carrying system on my pack.

I am ubber biased so asking me the question is getting you probably what you thought. But even with my bias taken into account, when I do my military training I despise carrying rifles with picatinny during rucks. It’s just uncomfortable. I’d rather a flat rail with rounded corners so I can go from hand to hand and shoulder to shoulder during rucks without making should blisters or hot spots on my hands. And to make you happy, I am in the no glove group cause yes even hands get hot when your trying to smoke your soldiers on a 12mi.
 
Ok cool. That’s the answer I wanted to hear, equally strong as far as leverage goes, right? Imagine them attached to a wood stock. Or did you think I meant strong as in resisting recoil?

Recoil isn’t a concern for me. Never had an Arca rail slip. Just mentioned my calibers for background.

I never ever carry a rifle with the bottom of the stock against my collar bone. I do sometimes carry an over/under that way, however. But I agree that style of carry would indeed majorly suck with a pic rail. And most pic rails are cut as sharp as a sushi master’s knife. I hate uncovered quad rails on an AR15. Cheese-graters!
 
No, on leaving the non-arca rifle idle on the bags...shooting only. I do have a couple of chassis equipped rifles for locked in use, but I've only had the Anvil-30 for a short time, so need to spend some time behind it. The bag is merely a way to avoid cluttering up the bottom of some rifles. I surely see the value in what you want to do, keeping the rifle locked in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: carbonbased
As far as leverage goes if you are mounting a pic rail, or a dovetail on its using the same hardware. Threaded tnuts w/w/o epoxy and screwed in to wedge the teeth in. I’m wager to say the more surface area of the dovetail would add in strength but that’s a guess. But for sake of arguing call that installation even.
 
  • Like
Reactions: carbonbased
As far as leverage goes if you are mounting a pic rail, or a dovetail on its using the same hardware. Threaded tnuts w/w/o epoxy and screwed in to wedge the teeth in. I’m wager to say the more surface area of the dovetail would add in strength but that’s a guess. But for sake of arguing call that installation even.
That’s sort of my thoughts as well.

But just throwing this out there…here’s my train of thought for tripod-use only:
  • Strength: in tripod use, Arca and Picatinny rails are roughly equivalent
  • Seating & adjusting: Arca is easier to initially seat and adjust while in the clamp
  • Sliding while clamped: RRS R-lock solves any Arca sliding concerns. Pic rails don’t slide by accident unless clamped wrong
  • Looks: Picatinny is much narrower and looks better near thin rifles’ magwell (to me)
  • Pain: pic rails hurt when carrying in some positions (collarbone) but both Arca & pic rails can hurt the hand (especially if machined sharply). Arca is too wide for the palm with its edges and pic rails have those pesky notches.
So…why not just use a (smoothed off) Picatinny rail…without the notches?

RRS already has a great dual-interface clamp. Making a user-removable picatinny stop “bar” in RRS clamps would allow use of an un-notched pic rail.

Hell, if concerned about unwanted slippage (I’m not) you could even use that R-lock design on an un-notched pic rail.

Hunters would love a smaller interface attached to their rifles. Bonus 1000+ points if you sink the interface “below grade” in the stock somehow. I’m pretty sure stock makers would be interested.

Food for thought.
 
Last edited:
Cue the guy that says, “Wear gloves,” in 3…2…1…FU buddy lol
Lol I have arca on my hunting rifles. Easier to clip into anvil, rides bags/window sills / hoods etc better.

Also you realy think cheese grater picatinny is easier on your hands than nice smooth arca ?

Brand makes a difference. I need to look I think mdt has the smoothest edges. Some brands are too sharp

You sound like you just need short arca in front of mag. Like the manners LRH
 
Salmon River Solutions……

Small arca rail.

Use a gun bearer to tote your hunting weight rifle.

Just an idea. But it works. 😎
 
I’m not sure which parts of the above posts are directed towards me, but:
  1. I’m talking about relative strength of two systems when clipping the rifle into a tripod (I do own SRS Arca rails btw), and
  2. Minimizing uncomfortableness when hand carrying the rifle (not long distance backpacking sort of carry)
Also you realy think cheese grater picatinny is easier on your hands than nice smooth arca ?
I agree most pic rails are stupid sharp. But look at this pic rail. Radiused edges abound. That’s what I’m talking about. Later I thought of a new (to me) idea, a pic rail without notches (or maybe just one)…just like an Arca plate except narrower. Would have to mod the RRS clamp if zero notches, obv

E7AFC8DE-602F-4E5C-91E7-EED15651768F.jpeg



And finally, ideally, the pic rail would be in a recessed area right in front of the magwell with enough space for the ballhead’s clamp to attach around it. Probably requires a new, skinny, slightly taller clamp to get in there while still allowing the stock to look untouched from the side. The rifle looks normal and handles normally.

This is the way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BurtG
Buy an outdoorsman tripod head and go with Salmon river solutions outdoorsman rails. It's skinnier than ARCA with no notches.
 
Put a pic rail where indicated.
Carry with hand around mag.
Thats where I carry my tikka when I hand carry it, its my main hunting rifle.
Good point. This does work when you have a flush-ish mag. As a colony varmint shooter, I tend to use higher cap mags or in the case of CZ 527’s, the 5-rounder always sticks down (only size for most calibers).