- Thread starter tna9001
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Are you using the same magazine, not brand of mag, when you're having the failure to feed?
This could also be indicative of the gun being undergassed and short stroking but it could also be the gun isn't lubed up, that bolt looks mighty dry.
Start diagnosing the problem by eliminating one variable at time.
1. Try a new magazine. If it works, that was the issue, don't use that magazine again.
2. If a new magazine didn't solve the issue, try lubing the rifle.
3. If a well lubed rifle is still short stroking it could be undergassed, at which point you may have to contact Ruger.
This could also be indicative of the gun being undergassed and short stroking but it could also be the gun isn't lubed up, that bolt looks mighty dry.
Start diagnosing the problem by eliminating one variable at time.
1. Try a new magazine. If it works, that was the issue, don't use that magazine again.
2. If a new magazine didn't solve the issue, try lubing the rifle.
3. If a well lubed rifle is still short stroking it could be undergassed, at which point you may have to contact Ruger.
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Thank you for that. I'll follow your advice and see what happens.
Have you adjusted the gas regulator?
Yeah, that'll do it too. I didn't know it had an adjustable gas block.
I have it set on 3, which Ruger recommends during breakin.
Looks like the bolt isn't going back far enough, ergo undergassed?
Could be, but over-gassed/over-speed is often confused for under-gassed. The BCG outruns the the mag spring causing bolt over base.
OP, I would try different gas settings, it wont cost anything except some ammo.
Will do!
I don’t claim to have the knowledge of some of the guys here - fixing an over gassed large frame AR is what brought me to the Hide . And that bolt over rim looks exactly what I was dealing with and have felt with 2 more times with large frame ARs that were heavily over gassed .
Like others have stated - adjust that gas setting.
And keep us updated on the SFAR- when you get this worked out , accuracy- durability ect. I’ve been window shopping on them but have yet to see an example in the wild.
Like others have stated - adjust that gas setting.
And keep us updated on the SFAR- when you get this worked out , accuracy- durability ect. I’ve been window shopping on them but have yet to see an example in the wild.
I watched a Ruger video and 3 is max gas. I would dial it to 1 and fire one round at a time. If it locks back great, if not go to 2 etc.
I started with my 16" on setting #2 new out of the box and haven't had any issues in @ 200 rnds., except failing to lock back on one particular PMag (which I'm attributing to the magazine).
Wait a minute, this looks confusing to me, but seems like something that is well-known-enough that others are not surprised, so let me ask:
How is it that the round is leaving the magazine if the bolt is not grabbing/pushing it by the rim on the way forward? Is it the "momentum" from the mag spring/follower combined with the friction of the bolt on the surface of the shell casing?
How is it that the round is leaving the magazine if the bolt is not grabbing/pushing it by the rim on the way forward? Is it the "momentum" from the mag spring/follower combined with the friction of the bolt on the surface of the shell casing?
Looks like a bolt over base failure to me:
The SFAR spring is already pretty stout, but the buffer is a standard carbine. Step 1 would be turn the gas down to setting 2, as viewed from the right side of the rifle. That will probably fix it he's running wide open now, if not he can try heavier buffers. I've used an H2 suppressed and it has been running, might go down to an H1 and see how it does.
Thanks for all of the helpful replies. I've tried another magazine, set the gas block to 2, dissembled the BCG, and lubed it. The bolt is super tight in the carrier, I've been working the bolt, and it's considerably better now. I spoke to the folks at Ruger today, and they want me to send it back. I think I'm going to try it again now that it's loosened up a bit before I send it back.
Easy answer. When you have short-stroking or excess cyclic rate and the bolt rides over the cartridge, the carrier face hits the rear of the cartridge and forces it forward and up the feed ramp, pinching it between the bolt and the carrier. This is called a Bolt Override Malfunction, one of the several types of Failure To Feed malfunctions that are possible.
This often damages the cartridge so that it won’t fit inside the chamber anymore.
Way to diagnose whether you have excess or too slow cyclic rate is do the single round in magazine test with LRBHO, and also look at the ejection pattern. Ejection pattern isn’t a 100% legitimate method, but is worth looking at to see if you have a forward ejection pattern, or one that is more into the 3 or 4:30 direction as seen from above the rifle.
LRBHO?
Last Round Bolt Hold Open
A basic feature of the AR-15 and AR-10, and most US service rifles since the Garand.
A basic feature of the AR-15 and AR-10, and most US service rifles since the Garand.
Okay.
My understanding of "bolt override" is when the round gets above the bolt ("overrides" it... or, "rides over" it) and as a result, fails to chamber.
As for the carrier face pushing the bolt, that makes sense to me in the context of the magazine sitting too high in the mag well. I'm trying to imagine other scenarios that might cause this other than an out-of-spec mag or out-of-spec lower... (?) I'll take one apart later and try to see what you're saying. Thanks for the explanation.
Okay.
My understanding of "bolt override" is when the round gets above the bolt ("overrides" it... or, "rides over" it) and as a result, fails to chamber.
As for the carrier face pushing the bolt, that makes sense to me in the context of the magazine sitting too high in the mag well. I'm trying to imagine other scenarios that might cause this other than an out-of-spec mag or out-of-spec lower... (?) I'll take one apart later and try to see what you're saying. Thanks for the explanation.
No, it's not the round getting above the bolt, it's the bolt overriding the round. As has been explained, the BCG velocity is too high, so it outruns the magazine's ability to push the next round up in time. So the next round is not yet far enough up in the correct position when the bolt reaches the point where is should be pushing the case head to force the cartridge forward out of the magazine and into the chamber. Instead the cartridge comes up when the bolt is further forward than it should be, and an edge on the BCG pushes the cartridge partially out of the mag before it gets pinned against the barrel face or feed lips.
Yeah I get that. Jogging my memory, maybe what I was thinking of was "brass over bolt."
But when I do an image search for "bolt override" I get this:
I called Ruger, and they wanted it back. I'll report back when I learn more.
I run my sfar on setting 2. No issues.
The gun is on the way back from Ruger, and they replaced the BCG. Hopefully, that's the fix.
I got the gun back from Ruger and to the range today. Kudos to Ruger for a quick turnaround of 8 days. They replaced the BCG. The gun works now, but it's a 2-3 moa gun (I'm a consistent .5 moa shooter with a precision rifle). Neat concept, but Ruger should of put a decent barrel on it and charged $1500.
Try various types/weights of ammo. I’ve had it down to .7 moa so far. It hated federal AE150 which gave over 2 moa groups.
I've done that. This particular gun just doesn't shoot well. A buddy of mine has one and he's getting 1-1.5 moa out of it.
I've tried Hornady Match 168g & 175g. Hornady Black 165g, IMI Match 175g, and then various plinking loads.
I would speak to Ruger again. That’s not acceptable accuracy and seeing as they’ve had to replace the BCG already, maybe there a build issue going on.
Gen 3 pmags have thicker lips than any other poly mag, that holds the cartridge lower. Try Lancer mags with the metal lips.
Good to read an honest review for a change. Every review and video I’ve seen to date is just gushing about the rifle, which certainly isn’t my feelings about it.
I had high hopes for accuracy, my RPR is a tack driver at 1000yds so I was hoping for similar results ( at closer ranges) from the SFAR. There’s just no excuse for poor barrels these days. Even my $350 T/C Venture2 is moa at 800 yards (6.5 cm)
I’m hoping to nail down a hand load that works acceptably , getting there but it takes some work ( and money)
Well that's not exactly confidence inspiring. Kind of makes me question my plans to chop a 20" rifle down.
I would certainly put a lot of rounds through it first and see what accuracy you can get before getting the hacksaw out!
Makes me wonder if there will be a ‘gen 2’ before long with better barrel, single ejector and revised buffer and spring set up
The plan is to get one and put a hundred or so rounds through it to loosen it up a little and get a feel for how it likes my SiCo Omega then put the barrel in the lathe for a trim.
My biggest concern is the way ruger already has the gas vented so many ways with the extra ports on the bcg and in the reciever itself. Will it still function without the can is my concern.
Changing the reciever extension, buffer spring and the buffer itself could solve that maybe but there's only one way to find out. If the barrel is trash I can probably salvage the extension and have a barrel made somewhere. I've just got to get a few more ducks in a row first.
That’s a lot of work to do to a rifle that ‘should’ work, right out the box. Function wise I think you’ll be fine as non suppressed work is all done on the 2 setting once broken in. The 3 setting is pretty harsh.
Hickok45 released a video today with John shooting the 20” barrel version. He didn’t do Ruger and favours by using tracer rounds at 230 yards. They were all over the place. Tracers aren’t the most accurate round anyway but it was horrible. Using my 45-70 Sharps and lever gun and my 44m lever gun I ring 200 yard steel without fail with iron sights so they made the SFAR look pretty poor. It was one of their shortest videos too so I don’t think they were too impressed
I just got off the phone with Ruger about the accuracy issue. They want the gun back again. On the bright side, they send a new PMAG back with the gun and they pay for shipping both ways.
That’s good, I thought they’d want it back . Far cheaper for them than bad publicity. Keep us posted!
It is going to be a fair amount of effort involved. My main reason for doing it is I want a 16" rifle gas 308 ar platform. I finally got my pws about as good as its going to get but I'm still not quite happy with it.That’s a lot of work to do to a rifle that ‘should’ work, right out the box. Function wise I think you’ll be fine as non suppressed work is all done on the 2 setting once broken in. The 3 setting is pretty harsh.
Hickok45 released a video today with John shooting the 20” barrel version. He didn’t do Ruger and favours by using tracer rounds at 230 yards. They were all over the place. Tracers aren’t the most accurate round anyway but it was horrible. Using my 45-70 Sharps and lever gun and my 44m lever gun I ring 200 yard steel without fail with iron sights so they made the SFAR look pretty poor. It was one of their shortest videos too so I don’t think they were too impressed
I was about to start gathering pieces for just such a build when the sfar came on the scene. If my plan works with the lighter weight gun it'll be a win win. If not, I was going to build one anyway.
Close quarters on very fat people, you’ll be fine
I am keeping a proven battle rifle, HK G3Close quarters on very fat people, you’ll be fine
Shot this group yesterday @ 200 yds with my 20” SFAR using FGMM 168gr SMK BTHP.
Also, this needs to be ran on #2 gas setting under most conditions. Use #3 for only adverse and uncommon circumstances and use #1 only while suppressed. #0 turns off all gas to use as a bolt gun of sorts.
Also, this needs to be ran on #2 gas setting under most conditions. Use #3 for only adverse and uncommon circumstances and use #1 only while suppressed. #0 turns off all gas to use as a bolt gun of sorts.
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If only reviews that agree with your personal feelings are to be considered "honest", then I guess I'll claim the "gushing" reviews to be the honest ones. I've got @ 500 rounds through mine, functions 100%, and sub-MOA with factory ammo (Australian Outback 168gr). And no, it's not as accurate as my bolt gun either...but I didn't expect it to be.
How's your brass? How much bullet creep do you get from chambering a round? No blown primers or fail to feeds? If that's all good, you're lucky as there seems to be people on here having issues. Just about every review I've seen/read, doesn't even look into this stuff. Sure the gun shoots nice (apart from blowing primers on mine) but function goes a lot deeper than that for me. If yours is good in all aspects, I'm pleased for you! Some aren't so lucky.
And no , I'm not vain enough and far too old to think ' only reviews that agree with your personal feelings are to be considered "honest", that was just my considered opinion on it.
I was having this issue. I looked and found a bunch of brass shavings. I took the BCG apart and took off the extractor and there was a bunch of brass in there. After cleaning the brass out, the gun started cycling fine again for about 20 rounds.
After 20 rounds, I looked at the shells and noticed marking I believe from the extractor pin on the brass. It was continuing to chew the brass. Took to a gun smith he said he’d never seen it before. I contacted Ruger and they don’t know why either. The gunsmith has a connection at Ruger they’re overnight shipping a new upper. I’ll report back if issue continues
Re: accuracy issues vary rifle to rifle. It would be worth having the barrel recrowned. Do it by single point cutting an 11* crown, Do not use a 1 piece 11 degree crowning tool, DO NOT use a 45 or 60* chamfer. Most all AR barrels would benefit from that type of crown.
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