Re: S&B 5-25 x 56
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For those who have not looked at an S&B 5-25 next to a Premier 5-25's the Gen II XR reticles are "different". The same Gen II XR in the Premier is slightly thicker than than it appears in the S&B. </div></div>
Yep, I noticed this as well. And, I thought that I had a resonable explanation for this. I referenced what is apparently an old/non-current PDF of the Premier 5-25X (at 15X), and a (current) Heritage 3-15X (at 15X) and I compared of the subtensions and measurements of these against Premier PDFs' of the 4-16X and 5-25X PMII Gen 2 XR (at 15X). It should be noted that these PDFs' were all obtained off of the net'. The subtensions and measurements were identical between the two Heritage Gen 2 XR scopes, with the line widths being thicker than on the PMIIs'.
According to the "old" Premier 15X schematics for the <span style="font-style: italic">Heritage 3-15X and 5-25X Gen 2 XR</span>, the subtensions and measurements are identical between the Heritage 3-15X and 5-25X Gen 2 XR - both magnifications having line thicknesses of .04 MIL/.144"/3.65760mm (measurements "E", "K", and "N").
According to old Premier 15X <span style="font-style: italic">PMII UNLIT 5-25X and PMII LIT 4-16X /5-25X Gen 2 XR</span> schematics, the PMIIs' are at .025 MIL/.09"/2.28600mm (measurements "E", "K", and "N"). So the PMII Gen 2 XRs' (which also share identical measurements between the 4-16X and 5-25X) line thicknesses are much thinner than on the Heritage (1.3716mm less at 15X). This might not sound like a lot, but when you are aiming at very small targets (4-5") at 900+ yards it can make a difference in your ability to determine the target center and aim accordingly because the target is almost completely obscured at 17X.
As far as I can tell from the schematics, <span style="font-style: italic">on paper</span>, all other respective measurements and subtensions are the same across the board between the Heritage and PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR reticles. If this is true, I don't understand how the dot size for the (full MIL) "Dot" can be the same between the Heritage and PMII Gen 2 XRs' when the vertical and horizontal line thicknesses on the Heritage are approximately 1.2716mm thicker than on the PMII Gen 2 XRs', except to allow for differences in magnification. However, the actual reticle and image size appear to be the same size (they're both FFP scopes anyway) between both 5-25Xs' when adjusted to the "same" magnification. (Its' a given that the indicated magnification settings on the scope oculars may or may not be accurate). But wouldn't larger dot size and line widths change the measurements?
One discrepancy I found on the LIT PMII 4-16X / 5-25X Gen 2 XR, as well as the UNLIT PMII 5-25X PMII schematics is that <span style="font-weight: bold">Measurement "J" is listed as "18" (in/100 Yards) on both schematics.</span> <span style="font-style: italic">This measurement should be listed as "9" (9.0" = 2.5 MIL at 100 Yards).</span>
I PM'ed Jerry R (from Premier) here on the Hide' to ask if the line thickness and the dot size on the Heritage Gen 2 XRs' was increased in response to some people's complaints that the Gen 2 XR reticle "dissapears" at low power, and if the "dot" size was increased in order to keep the dot from getting lost? (I've seen complaints on the Hide' that the [full MIL] "dot" is smaller than the [half MIL] hash mark on the PMII (people either say that they confuse the .5 MIL with the 1.0 MIL, or that the "dot" is hard to see). If so, this change isn't be reflected on the reticle schematic.
I sent Jerry the PDFs' in question in my PM. Jerry emailed me, informing me that I had an older version of the Heritage 5-25X Gen 2 XR schematic and sent me the (current) Heritage 5-25X Gen 2 XR schematic PDF. The revised/current Heritage 5-25X Gen 2 XR PDF Jerry sent me has identical specs to the PMII 4-16X and 5-25X Gen 2 XR.
Jerry thanked me for bringing his attention to the typo on the LIT PMII 4-16X / 5-25X Gen 2 XR and UNLIT PMII 5-25X PMII schematics but offered no explanation to me regarding the visual differences I mentioned between the Heritage 5-25X Gen 2 XR and the PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR.
<span style="font-weight: bold">Current Premier Heritage 3-15X Gen 2 XR PDF at 15X:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">OLD/non-current Premier Heritage 5-25X Gen 2 XR PDF at 15X:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Current/Revised Premier Heritage 5-25X Gen 2 XR PDF at 15X:</span>
FOR SOME REASON WHEN I TRY TO UPLOAD THE PDF PHOTOBUCKET CAN'T "SEE" THE FILE ON MY PC. Here is a link to the
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Premier Heritage 5-25X Gen 2 XR Reticle</span></span> on Premier's web site.
Notice that on the PMII schematics, <span style="font-weight: bold">Measurement "J" is listed as "18" (in/100 Yards) on both schematics.</span> <span style="font-style: italic">This measurement should be listed as "9" (9.0"/2.5 MIL at 100 Yards).</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">UNLIT S & B 5-25X PMII Gen 2 XR schematic:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">LIT S & B 4-16X / 5-25X PMII Gen 2 XR schematic:</span>
When I get a chance I'll try to get some decent photos of the reticles at various powers and post them on the Hide'. Of course, people will have to realize and take into account that the marked magnifications on the ocular housings may or may not be actual magnifications, and that scopes will vary slightly.
Keith
