Rifle Scopes S&B or Hensoldt ?

M24_SWS

M24_SWS

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Minuteman
Feb 11, 2010
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Somersworth, NH
#1
I have done the research in regards to the scopes and both are the top of the line. But i am about to purchase one in about 90 days give or take. And for the 3000 dollars plus that they cost i really need to get the best info i can get. What i would like is this.

Any personal and or factual reasons as to why one brand is better than the other.

Once i get the information then ill make a decision and go from there.
 
#3
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

what are you going to use it for? Mil/Mil or some other configuration, do you mind being limited to a mildot reticle, why do you consider them the best? Because they have the name or because of the performance? But i would imagine its the "glass" thats so good in them that makes them appealing right? We need more info that what you gave to make a better decision
 
#4
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

Well MIL/MIL is what i want to use. I consider them the best becuase of their performance and quality. The use would be for long range competition and some low light shooting im trying to arrange.
 
#9
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

Thank you for the advice jasonk. Im getting the funds ready so if a S&B is around 3000 dollars or so then technically whats wrong with a little extra for a hensoldt?.
 
#13
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

The S&B wins due to reticle choices. Once you get to that glass level you can't really go wrong.
 
#14
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

I run both a Hensoldt 4-16 FFP and an S&B 4-16. Look at the feature sets and pick the one that suits you better, they are both, well... Bad Ass. If a plain mildot is ok for you and you don't mind how thick it is then I would go Hensoldt. If you want a finer reticle with half mil marks then get the S&B.
 
#16
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

Reviewed and in comparison with the S&B.

h416.jpg

<span style="font-style: italic">article</span> | <span style="font-weight: bold">The Hensoldt 4-16x56mm: How does it stack up? (abbreviated version) </span>

Hensoldt 4-16 lacks a real zero stop. No excuse for that whatsoever. The Hensoldt optical and physical package with S&B knobs would be my ideal setup if either of the companies were inclined to put those features together into a single package.
 
#18
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

On my 7RM AI, the Hensoldt had about 6 mils under my 100-yard zero in the AI 28 MOA base.

Having a scope that happens to bottom out in the rev below zero in some base/zero circumstances is not the same as having a proper zero stop. Some people might not care. But it does not have a proper zero stop feature.
 
#19
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

No other scope I have used has as great (or as easy) a site picture as Hensoldt. Position is very forgiving, edge-to-edge clarity is almost spotter scope-esque.

My vote is for Hensoldt. (Have used both, bought Hensoldt.)

In terms of features wanted and needed, what I'd recommend depends on what is to be done with it. On glass alone, nothing is as good as the view from a Hensoldt.
 
#21
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reviewed and in comparison with the S&B.

h416.jpg

<span style="font-style: italic">article</span> | <span style="font-weight: bold">The Hensoldt 4-16x56mm: How does it stack up? (abbreviated version) </span>

Hensoldt 4-16 lacks a real zero stop. No excuse for that whatsoever. The Hensoldt optical and physical package with S&B knobs would be my ideal setup if either of the companies were smart enough to build it. </div></div>

I'll take S&B's reticle too.
 
#22
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On my 7RM AI, the Hensoldt had about 6 mils under my 100-yard zero in the AI 28 MOA base.

Having a scope that happens to bottom out in the rev below zero in some base/zero circumstances is not the same as having a proper zero stop. Some people might not care. But it does not have a proper zero stop feature.

</div></div>

What's the difference?

The bottoming out is not really happenstance. It is the result of design.

Having a large amount of travel in a limited number of turns, in this case 2, negates the need for a Zero Stop feature.

The “ZeroStop” was invented for scopes that have large amounts of travel in a very large number of turns. Some as many as 10 or more. With this type of set up it is possible to get “lost” in the revolutions.

With a scope like the 4-16FF it is not possible to get lost so there is no need for a feature of this type.

If it is an issue for some, there is the option to use a steeper base. Something around 40 MOA will get you within a mil or 2 from the bottom. These types of mounts are available from several manufacturers.

I hope that helps,

Nathan
 
#23
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

Assuming 308Win, 2" HOB, and a 100-yard zero, the remaining bullet-down elevation for the 4-16x FF should be (numbers have been corrected):

* 20-MOA rail: ~6.8 mils (~57% of one turn)
* 30-MOA rail: ~3.9 mils (~32% of one turn)
* 40-MOA rail: ~1.0 mils (~8% of one turn)

The bullet-up elevation can be estimated by subtracting the down elevation from 22.4 mils (the total elevation travel from the HuDisCo website). For example, there is approximately 22.4 - 3.9 = 18.5 mils of up elevation with a 30-MOA rail.
 
#25
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

Until Hensoldt can offer more reticle choices and a counter-clockwise option for the knobs, I'd probably take the S&B. The eye relief and sight picture on the Hensoldt is truly amazing, but not so much better than the S&B that I'd take it in trade for the other features.
 
#27
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Assuming 308Win, 2" HOB, and a 100-yard zero, the remaining bullet-down elevation for the 4-16x FF should be:

* 20-MOA rail: ~7.6 mils (~60% of one turn)
* 30-MOA rail: ~4.7 mils (~40% of one turn)
* 40-MOA rail: ~1.8 mils (~15% of one turn)

The bullet-up elevation can be estimated by subtracting the down elevation from 22.4 mils (the total elevation travel from the HuDisCo website). For example, there is approximately 22.4 - 4.7 = 17.7 mils of up elevation with a 30-MOA rail. </div></div> I see badger has a 45 moa rail what turns down would that make?
 
#28
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jrb572</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stupid question. How much higher will the 40 moa rail make the scope sit?</div></div>

My guess is 20/1000's of an inch more than a 20 minute rail as measured from front to back of the rail. Just a guess though, I don't do this for a living.
 
#29
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The “ZeroStop” was invented for scopes that have large amounts of travel in a very large number of turns.</div></div>

I'm not sure why the zero stop was invented. I don't know who invented it, or what their exact motivation was.

However, the primary advantage of a zero stop is to be able to dial down to zero in the dark. One rarely shoots very far in low-light conditions anyway, and one can count clicks back up to whatever setting is needed.
 
#30
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Assuming 308Win, 2" HOB, and a 100-yard zero, the remaining bullet-down elevation for the 4-16x FF should be:

* 20-MOA rail: ~6.8 mils (~57% of one turn)
* 30-MOA rail: ~3.9 mils (~32% of one turn)
* 40-MOA rail: ~1.0 mils (~8% of one turn)

The bullet-up elevation can be estimated by subtracting the down elevation from 22.4 mils (the total elevation travel from the HuDisCo website). For example, there is approximately 22.4 - 3.9 = 18.5 mils of up elevation with a 30-MOA rail. </div></div>

I corrected some numbers using a calculator (original numbers were done by hand, I goofed slightly). A 45-MOA rail is probably not feasible. There is not enough elevation travel for it and, if there were, there would be very little if any windage available because the erector is at or near the bottom or top of the tube. So 40MOA is the most practical, but 30MOA gets me enough to try for a mile with 260Rem at my altitude - my goal for this year.

The 4-16x FF Hensoldt has the same total elevation travel as the S&B 3-12x MTC, pretty good!
 
#31
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd buy a Hensoldt </div></div>

+1
 
#32
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

When people say that the clicks are closely spaced together on a Hendsoldt - are we talking even closer than an S&B double turn? Is the knob as stiff as well?

Does anyone have a sheet on how the Hendsoldt subtends - how fat are the cross hairs?

Can anyone talk about the lit feature? What all lights up? Is it NV compatible?

On another note - correct me if I am wrong - it is no longer possible to get S&Bs with Gen2?

Good luck
 
#33
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

Mo_Zam_Beek,

There are 120 clicks in a revolution. They are very tactile.

Reticles line thicknesses subtend .05 mils.

The reticle is microprocessor controlled and lights the entire usable portion of the reticle.

If you are looking through the scope with an NVD such as a pvs-14, the illumination is compatible. This is one of the benefits of the microprocessor controlled illumination system.

I hope that helps!

Best regards,

Nathan
 
#34
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

Having tried both the 4-16 hensoldt and s&b I would choose the s&b because the hensoldts line thickness is too much for my uses. For a military sniper it's probably about right but dyring some of the tac matches out there it will tend to obscure smaller targets. Although, the optics and the eye box for the hensoldt were better then the s&b as well as the placement of the illumination knob. If hensoldt offered it with a gen2xr reticle with p4f line subtension widths I'd buy one in a heartbeat. Till then it's s&b.
 
#35
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HuDisCo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The reticle is microprocessor controlled </div></div>

Wait until I start telling people at the range that my scope has a microprocessor in it. The CDI factor of my scope just went through the roof!!
laugh.gif
 
#39
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... people focus on the stupidest things. </div></div>

Stadia Thickness:

Hendsoldt = 0.05 MIL
S&B P4F = 0.035 MIL
S&B Gen2 and Gen2XL = 0.06 MIL


Good luck
 
#41
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

If I were you I would go get behind these scopes before you chose. I have all except the hendsolt. They each have their strong and week points. It's for you to decide. My fave and the one I use in comps is neither of these.
 
#43
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... people focus on the stupidest things. </div></div>

Stadia Thickness:

Hendsoldt = 0.05 MIL
S&B P4F = 0.035 MIL
S&B Gen2 and Gen2XL = 0.06 MIL


Good luck </div></div>

Gen2XR 3-15= 0.04 MIL
Gen2XR 5-25= 0.025 MIL
http://www.premierreticles.com/pdfs/2009-3-15xGen2XR.pdf

While a very small complaint-- it is enough to bounce me from one kickass optic to another, slightly better suiting to my wants, kick-ass optic.
 
#44
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

I just swapped back to the 5-25sb. I have looked thru Hendsoldt, but have not twisted the turrets enough to give you a opinion worth counting. The 5-25sb is the only scope i have ever missed after getting rid of it. I KNOW you cant go wrong getting a SB scope and i honestly have a tough time believing the Hendsoldt is so much better that you will be making a bad choice.

If you truly want to know what one to use, buy both and sell the looser for a really really good price
smile.gif
 
#46
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

I've used and like some things about both. My hands-down favorite is the 4-16FF Hensoldt, though. I've shot it from 10 to 2,018 yards and never found the reticle to be too thick or too thin. Once you spend some time looking through one it's hard to look through anything else. Mechanics have always been perfect, too. I really like how compact (short) the scopes are, too.
 
#47
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LVMIKE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... people focus on the stupidest things. </div></div>

Stadia Thickness:

Hendsoldt = 0.05 MIL
S&B P4F = 0.035 MIL
S&B Gen2 and Gen2XL = 0.06 MIL


Good luck </div></div>

Gen2XR 3-15= 0.04 MIL
Gen2XR 5-25= 0.025 MIL
http://www.premierreticles.com/pdfs/2009-3-15xGen2XR.pdf

While a very small complaint-- it is enough to bounce me from one kickass optic to another, slightly better suiting to my wants, kick-ass optic. </div></div>

The stadia thicknesses you posted must be what Premier is currently manufacturing, but the subtension information I posted was from the subtension.pdfs as provided by S&B for the 3-12x50 Gen2, 4-16x42 Gen2 XL, and 5-25x56 P4F.

Good luck
 
#48
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Assuming 308Win, 2" HOB, and a 100-yard zero, the remaining bullet-down elevation for the 4-16x FF should be (numbers have been corrected):

* 20-MOA rail: ~6.8 mils (~57% of one turn)
* 30-MOA rail: ~3.9 mils (~32% of one turn)
* 40-MOA rail: ~1.0 mils (~8% of one turn)

The bullet-up elevation can be estimated by subtracting the down elevation from 22.4 mils (the total elevation travel from the HuDisCo website). For example, there is approximately 22.4 - 3.9 = 18.5 mils of up elevation with a 30-MOA rail.</div></div>

I have to say, you're exactly right!! I have mine on a 243 Surgeon with a built in 20moa rail and I have exactly 6.8 mils under zero.
 
#49
Re: S&B or Hensoldt ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Assuming 308Win, 2" HOB, and a 100-yard zero, the remaining bullet-down elevation for the 4-16x FF should be (numbers have been corrected):

* 20-MOA rail: ~6.8 mils (~57% of one turn)
* 30-MOA rail: ~3.9 mils (~32% of one turn)
* 40-MOA rail: ~1.0 mils (~8% of one turn)

The bullet-up elevation can be estimated by subtracting the down elevation from 22.4 mils (the total elevation travel from the HuDisCo website). For example, there is approximately 22.4 - 3.9 = 18.5 mils of up elevation with a 30-MOA rail.</div></div>

I have to say, you're exactly right!! I have mine on a 243 Surgeon with a built in 20moa rail and I have exactly 6.8 mils under zero. </div></div>

That's crazy! A LOT of things have to come together just right to make math like this work exactly...
 
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