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Rifle Scopes S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

S

Salmo22

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Minuteman
Jul 23, 2010
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Arizona
I'm a newbie to the site and have some basic questions about the S&B PMII. I'm working to build a 243AI tactical for coyotes and other predators. I want to get the PMII 5-25 LP for my scope.

Is a "first" reticle focal plane preferrable to a "second" reticle focal plane for the type of shooting/hunting I intend to pursue?

How do you think the P4 reticle will work for predator shooting/hunting?

Sorry for the basic questions; however, I've never had an opportunity to see a S&B up close and personal. I use a March 50x on my benchrest competition rifles and was originally leaning to using a NF on the 243AI. The S&B has got my attention and it seems like a very good scope.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJ Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use the search function. There's a lot to learn. </div></div>
Dear RJ:

I had used the search function and did not find the information I was looking for. If you can suggest the best way to enter a search request for the information I am seeking, that would appreciated. I'm not always as adept at search efforts as I'd like.

Thank you.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

I have a S@B 5-25x56 with the P4 reticle
I had to choose between the P4 and the P4 fine without seeing them
took the P4
recently I look at a P4 fine and I don't regret my choice
in the FFP the P4 fine is to thin when you zoom down past 15x
the P4 covers .250 at 100 meters the P4 fine covers .130
in the FFP I think the P4 is better for hunting
in the SFP I think the P4 fine would be OK
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

This is my 243 AI that wears a PMII 5-25. It has a Gen II XR not the P4. I would choose the P4 fine over the standard P4 for varmint/predator hunting if you choose to go that route. You will appreciate the lack of coverage at extended ranges. FFP is my prefered choice simply for accurate hold off regardless the power setting. One less thing to worry about. I would never run a SFP milling reticle, just makes no sense.
I have two other 5-25s with P4 fines and have never had any issues with the reticle gettting lost in low light at any time.
This is my go to gun year round for varmints/predators or anything else that deserves to be crow food.

Very good choice in caliber selection. Work up a good load with a 105 AMAX and you won't use anything else. PM me if you need any load data to get started.


IMG_0026.jpg
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmo22</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJ Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use the search function. There's a lot to learn. </div></div>
Dear RJ:

I had used the search function and did not find the information I was looking for. If you can suggest the best way to enter a search request for the information I am seeking, that would appreciated. I'm not always as adept at search efforts as I'd like.


Thank you.</div></div>

Search function can be a bit difficult to use. Here's a link to a great thread (opening post by Trigger Monkey) that might help you out. It's a sticky at the top of the Optics forum.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1938091#Post1938091
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is my 243 AI that wears a PMII 5-25. It has a Gen II XR not the P4. I would choose the P4 fine over the standard P4 for varmint/predator hunting if you choose to go that route. You will appreciate the lack of coverage at extended ranges. FFP is my prefered choice simply for accurate hold off regardless the power setting. One less thing to worry about. I would never run a SFP milling reticle, just makes no sense.
I have two other 5-25s with P4 fines and have never had any issues with the reticle gettting lost in low light at any time.
This is my go to gun year round for varmints/predators or anything else that deserves to be crow food.

</div></div>

Jerry covered it. Get the P4F. It's an excellent reticle in that scope. Great choice in the scope also. I have 2 and love them. Want to pick up a third in the future. My 6.5 Creedmoor match rifle wears one.
P1010012.jpg
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jerry R</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is my 243 AI that wears a PMII 5-25. It has a Gen II XR not the P4. I would choose the P4 fine over the standard P4 for varmint/predator hunting if you choose to go that route. You will appreciate the lack of coverage at extended ranges. FFP is my prefered choice simply for accurate hold off regardless the power setting. One less thing to worry about. I would never run a SFP milling reticle, just makes no sense.
I have two other 5-25s with P4 fines and have never had any issues with the reticle gettting lost in low light at any time.
This is my go to gun year round for varmints/predators or anything else that deserves to be crow food.

Very good choice in caliber selection. Work up a good load with a 105 AMAX and you won't use anything else. PM me if you need any load data to get started.


IMG_0026.jpg
</div></div>
Hey Jerry:

Great looking rifle. PM sent on the reloading questions. I'd enjoy getting some details on your 243AI build. BTW, when you change the power setting/zoom on the S&B, does it turn the entire back section of the scope? I am wondering if there is an issue with the "flip" covers changing location when the power seting/zoom is changed?

Thanks again;

Jeff
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DT1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmo22</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJ Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Use the search function. There's a lot to learn. </div></div>
Dear RJ:

I had used the search function and did not find the information I was looking for. If you can suggest the best way to enter a search request for the information I am seeking, that would appreciated. I'm not always as adept at search efforts as I'd like.


Thank you.</div></div>

Search function can be a bit difficult to use. Here's a link to a great thread (opening post by Trigger Monkey) that might help you out. It's a sticky at the top of the Optics forum.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1938091#Post1938091
</div></div>

Thanks DT1, that link covered many of the issues I was wondering about.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

Salmo, I have a SuB 5-25x56 P4Fine, and to be honest to you - my Zeiss 6-24x56 with #43 illum. mil-dot reticle is a better choice for hunting, and the SuB is the better choice for long range and range-finding etc.

Reason for this is that I think the Zeiss is easier to get a good sight picture, has a better illumination for low light hunting (since the whole Mil-Dot is lit), Only downer from a pedagogical perspective with the Zeiss is 0,05 Mrad adjustments instead of 0,1 Mrad's. (rendering 1 Mil = 20 clicks instead of 1 MIL = 10 clicks). But I really love my SuB 5-25 but just wanted to give you a (cheaper) alternative if hunting is your poise rather than range estimation and long range shooting.

I'd also suggest you look into Hensoldt line of scopes if you want the best from two worlds..
wink.gif
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmo22</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> BTW, when you change the power setting/zoom on the S&B, does it turn the entire back section of the scope? I am wondering if there is an issue with the "flip" covers changing location when the power seting/zoom is changed?

Thanks again;

Jeff</div></div>

Jeff there is no problem as the whole eye piece doesn't turn. If you look at the pic below you can see the raised portion with 20 and 25 showing just infront of where it says Schmidt and Bender near the eye piece? That is the power ring. It doesn't move the eye piece when turning it.
P1010015-5.jpg
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jeff there is no problem as the whole eye piece doesn't turn. If you look at the pic below you can see the raised portion with 20 and 25 showing just infront of where it says Schmidt and Bender near the eye piece? That is the power ring. It doesn't move the eye piece when turning it.
P1010015-5.jpg
</div></div>
Rob01:

Thanks for the clarification. I've been comparing this scope with the Nightforce NXS 3.5-15 x 50 F1. Apparently, when you change power/zoom on the NF, it does turn the entire eye piece. Another point in favor of S&B.

Jeff
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

Having had 2 S&B 5-25s and 3 other S&Bs and 2 NF F1s and a couple other NF, the F1 is a good scope but the S&B is a great scope and would be my first choice.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

I have one on order in the 5-25 with the p4f that should be here tomorrow, I'm definitely looking forward to it!
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bm11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have one on order in the 5-25 with the p4f that should be here tomorrow, I'm definitely looking forward to it!</div></div>

You won't be disappointed!
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

I am getting ready to order the S & B 5-25x56 PMII and I noticed one site had the MTC (More Tactile Clicks) as an option on this scope. I don't believe they will be released until Oct., but has anyone tried the MTC knobs at the Shot Show or somewhere else? I haven't heard any complaints about the original knobs, but is this something that could be worth the wait of a few extra months? I have played with the PH MTC knobs so I do have a point of reference if someone could make a comparison between the two scopes. This is the site:

http://www.sportoptics.com/schmidt-bender-pm-5-25x56-P4FCMCC-MTC.aspx

Thanks
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

If the "MTC" feature is a feature you want your scope to have then it's worth the wait.

It might be sooner than october on the 5-25 MTC. I can only hope as I am waiting for this scope also from sportoptics.com.

I know the 5-25 LT (Locking turret) models which are also "MTC" and initially released in tan are slated for a September-ish release.

Maybe Jay from sportoptics.com (SH screen name= Opticsspecialist) can update you with the latest. He's good to go.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave7mm</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Salmo22
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post1890736

I like the P3F.Stands out better when the light get low.
That super fine stuff is OK for belly benchrest.But for hunting,you want something thicker.


dave </div></div>
Dave:

I appreciate the information and link - great looking rifle. Off topic, did you ever try the Berger 105 VLD's or Match Target BT's in your 243? I shoot competitive Benchrest with Walt Berger all the time and he says they are a great bullet - I realize he may be slightly biased :)

I'm also wondering what increase in performance you might expect in a 243AI over the 3270 FPS you are getting with your standard 243 and the 105 AMAX's?

Thanks;

Jeff
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pupdawg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the "MTC" feature is a feature you want your scope to have then it's worth the wait.

It might be sooner than october on the 5-25 MTC. I can only hope as I am waiting for this scope also from sportoptics.com.

I know the 5-25 LT (Locking turret) models which are also "MTC" and initially released in tan are slated for a September-ish release.

Maybe Jay from sportoptics.com (SH screen name= Opticsspecialist) can update you with the latest. He's good to go. </div></div>I was talking to Dianne from Mile High last week, and if I'm not mistaken, she has 5-25x56's with MTC turrets in stock.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

Dear RJ:

I'd love to look through an S&B prior to laying down the $$$. Unfortunately, I've not found a local dealer that has any on the shelf. I hope to make contact with a couple of folks in the metro Phoenix area that have S&B's on top of their rifles so I could see for myself. Since I don't intend at this time to participate in tactical competitions, my hunting interests have primary sway in my decision.

Thanks;

Jeff
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

Salmo22
Some reading for you.
http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html
If I had to do it again and I most likley will.I'd run the AI version over the standard.
I dought there would be much of a performance difference.
I do not consider blowing cases work or even an extra step in my mind.Just a excuse to shoot more.
The standard 243 Win is a PITA as I just dont like to trim cases that much.Im thinking the AI version would never need triming at all after the first time.
When I started with the 1-8 twisted Rock I ran 115g DTACs.I tried them and I never felt they worked that well accuracy wise in my rifle.I had no problem getting 3130 fps with 47g of Rel25.The most I could get in the case.Pressure was no problem.
It just didnt shoot as well as I wanted.I tried hard to get the accuracy but it just wasnt there.
Dropped in the 105g Amax and the aggs just tightened up pronto.Like some one had flipped a switch.
As you can see from the pics 105g Amaxs are bombs on vermin.
Only other bullet I ran was the 105g JLK VLD.Actually shot bigger groups than the DTACs.
Never got to Bergers.
Once a got a decent load for the Amaxs which didnt take long at all.I quit and went to hunting.

The S&B P4Fine reticle covers .13 at 100 yards.
The S&B P3Fine reticle covers .24 at 100 yards.


dave
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Salmo22</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear RJ:

I'd love to look through an S&B prior to laying down the $$$. Unfortunately, I've not found a local dealer that has any on the shelf. I hope to make contact with a couple of folks in the metro Phoenix area that have S&B's on top of their rifles so I could see for myself. Since I don't intend at this time to participate in tactical competitions, my hunting interests have primary sway in my decision.

Thanks;

Jeff </div></div>

Come to Tucson,i have a couple you can try out
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

If you wanted a thicker reticle I would say go with the standard P4 as it has .5 mil marks and more hold over capability while having basically the same line thickness as the P3.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dave7mm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Salmo22
Some reading for you.
http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html
If I had to do it again and I most likley will.I'd run the AI version over the standard.
I dought there would be much of a performance difference.
I do not consider blowing cases work or even an extra step in my mind.Just a excuse to shoot more.
The standard 243 Win is a PITA as I just dont like to trim cases that much.Im thinking the AI version would never need triming at all after the first time.
When I started with the 1-8 twisted Rock I ran 115g DTACs.I tried them and I never felt they worked that well accuracy wise in my rifle.I had no problem getting 3130 fps with 47g of Rel25.The most I could get in the case.Pressure was no problem.
It just didnt shoot as well as I wanted.I tried hard to get the accuracy but it just wasnt there.
Dropped in the 105g Amax and the aggs just tightened up pronto.Like some one had flipped a switch.
As you can see from the pics 105g Amaxs are bombs on vermin.
Only other bullet I ran was the 105g JLK VLD.Actually shot bigger groups than the DTACs.
Never got to Bergers.
Once a got a decent load for the Amaxs which didnt take long at all.I quit and went to hunting.

The S&B P4Fine reticle covers .13 at 100 yards.
The S&B P3Fine reticle covers .24 at 100 yards.


dave</div></div>
Hey Dave:

Thanks for the link. Fire forming is no big deal to me. I shoot a 6PPC in benchrest competitions and have to fire form the Lapua 220 Russian cases all the time. I always enjoy shooting nice tight groups when fire forming - it is amazing how well those loads often shoot.

Like you stated, I'm interested in the AI version as much for the improved brass performance as the slight increase in velocity. I also believe the AI version will have a wider "tune" window that will keep it tight when conditions change. I've never tried the Amax and need to give them a fair shake at the range.

Thanks for your comments.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

[/quote] Come to Tucson,i have a couple you can try out [/quote]

Next time I'm in the vacinity, I'll PM you and see if we can link up. Do you ever get up to Ben Avery and shoot competitively? If so, let me know the next time you there and I'll pay a visit.

Thanks for the offer.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you wanted a thicker reticle I would say go with the standard P4 as it has .5 mil marks and more hold over capability while having basically the same line thickness as the P3. </div></div>

Yes sir.
You are correct.
But the fat bottom of the p3 suits me,to a tee.
Im a poster child for clicken and dicken.
I like 4 heavy post in the dark.
For what im usuing it for.I like it better.


dave
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

Salmo22
Fellow 6mm PPC person.Just for you.
video044.jpg

Most people that dont know about the 6PPC just dont understand.
2008pig050.jpg

This is my play PPC.I have two HVs and a LV but im not shooting them at the moment.At practical distances in the field.Its very hard to beat.
2008pig178.jpg

Met Walt Berger once years ago.Interesting guy to talk to for sure.


dave
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

Here is my 6PPC between relays at Raton.

DSC01433.jpg


My best 5-shot 100 yard target to date.

Jeffs065Target-1003.jpg


Benchrest competition is not always a bed of roses. The Cactus Classic this past March at Ben Avery in Phoenix.

IMG_0674.jpg
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

Looks like a show of CIRQUE DU SOLEIL is going on down range with all those flags
wink.gif
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like a show of CIRQUE DU SOLEIL is going on down range with all those flags
wink.gif
</div></div>
Hey Rob:

My fellow benchrest shooters and I are fanatical about wind flags. I wish I could find a photo from the last Nationals in St. Louis to show you how crazy it really gets. They can be helpful; however, you can still get fooled and shoot big.
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJ Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rob, maybe the benchresters should wear tights to go with the flags? Then again, that mental image is making me a little sickly. </div></div>
RJ:

Take my word for it, you don't want to see any benchrest shooters in tights. Heck, we don't look very good in normal clothes.

IMG_0140.jpg
 
Re: S&B PMII 5-25 LP Questions

LOL I really don't want to see any of you in tights!
wink.gif
 
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