Rifle Scopes S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

[cali_tz]

I just put on a S&B PMII MIL/MIL on my 338LM with 40.6 total MOA base (20 on the Pic rail, and 20.6 on the Spuhr mount).

When I first went to zero in and set the elevation turret to zero, I found that on the second turn of the turret, I could only get to like 19 MIL total, and 26MIL is the spec for this scope. So I reset the scope back to what I think was the factory configuration, followed their instructions to the letter, and now the turret goes all the way around on the second turn to just about 26.1 MIL.

The difference in my first and second procedure was that on the second attempt, I lifted the turret to where I could barely see the o-ring, and the I tightened the turret screw and then rotated the turret to get to my 100 yard zero point.

On the first attempt, I lifted the cap higher, and then the set screws could not grab onto anything so I concluded that was useless. The second time around it seemed like the set screws grabbed onto the same piece of metal as they would when the turret is all the way down.

So you can see I am confused here. Does anyone with this scope understand the inner workings and guide me as to how to properly set up this scope, so that I have my 26MIL fully available... on my previous MOA/MIL scope, I could rotate past the 56MOA (spec) point. Here on this scope I cannot rotate past 26MIL, and the S&B literature suggests that scope can go beyond the 26MIL spec point, to effectively what is 100MOA or 29MIL.

I'd like a 100 yard zero if that is possible.

Help!

 

[dieselten]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

don't be confused and think you will always have 26+ mils of elevation in 2 full turns. Wherever your rifle actually zero's will determine the amount of total "up" available. To correctly zero, loosen screws and push elevation turret all the way down, then tighten screws. Now twist elevation turret all the way down till it hits zero stop. now loosen screws and pull turret up about a quarter inch and re tighten the screws so you can get past the zero stop if necessary and also so if you go up your turret will not jump into the "second" revolution. Now go zero the rifle, when zeroed, loosen screws and set elevation to "0" and windage to "0". done

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Thank you kindly dieselten... I believe this clarifies the S&B instructions... will try this again. I think the reason I don't have as much elevation is because reading elsewhere, the 5-25 wants a 45MOA base... not my 40MOA base, for maximum elevation range. That could explain the last 2 or so last MIL I can't achieve...?

Thanks again.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

why do S&B manuals make a big deal out of never taking the elevation turret all the way off?

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

for you other PMII MIL/MIL owners, how many total MIL up do you have, after zeroing at 100 yards?

 

[esheato]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Shooting a 285 Hornady with a 100 yard zero at approx 2600 fps, and a 40 MOA base, I have full travel (26 mils) which gets me to just over a mile.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Thanks.

 

[phxfa]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

20 moa rail, 20 moa Spuhr mount, 2750 fps, 300 gr. Scenar and Im right at the bottom of my moa. 27 mils vertical left

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Tom, sounds like you have the exact same config as me. When you say you are "right at the bottom of your MOA", what does that mean?

thx

 

[Aries64]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just put on a S&B PMII MIL/MIL on my 338LM with 40.6 total MOA base (20 on the Pic rail, and 20.6 on the Spuhr mount).

When I first went to zero in and set the elevation turret to zero, I found that on the second turn of the turret, I could only get to like 19 MIL total, and 26MIL is the spec for this scope. So I reset the scope back to what I think was the factory configuration, followed their instructions to the letter, and now the turret goes all the way around on the second turn to just about 26.1 MIL.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali_tz</span></span> -

The "windowed" PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL is rated at 26 MILs' of Elevation travel using a 45 MOA base (this recommended 45 MOA base does not take into account any Elevation adjustment used while zeroing but is probably only off 1 MIL or so). You have to realize that the muzzle velocity has has an effect on the amount of Elevation needed to zero a gun. Federal Gold Medal Match 175s' average 2,700.0/fps out of my 22" barreled Tac Ops X-Ray 51, and with the PMII 5-25X[56mm] mounted on a Tac Ops two-piece 40 MOA base I have 26.4 MILs' of Elevation after my 100 yard zero. A 45 MOA base would <span style="font-style: italic">threorietically</span> 5 more MOA (approximatately 1.4 MILs') for a total of 27.8 MILs' of Elevation travel.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Some simple math:</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">13.0 MIL</span> = 46.8" (13.0 x 3.6" = 46.8", or 46.800").

<span style="font-weight: bold">46.800"</span> <span style="font-style: italic">divided by 1.047"</span> (1 MOA) = <span style="font-weight: bold">44.699 (MOA)</span>.


Your 20 MOA Integral Rail + the 20.6 MOA of your SPUHR SP-4602 Mount give you a <span style="font-style: italic">theorietical</span> combined cant of 40.6 MOA. 40.6 MOA is very close to S & B's recommended cant of 45 MOA for the PMII 5-25X[56mm], so you're getting all the Elevation travel you're go to get out of your base/ring/scope setup. Thats' pretty damn good.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The difference in my first and second procedure was that on the second attempt, I lifted the turret to where I could barely see the o-ring, and the I tightened the turret screw and then rotated the turret to get to my 100 yard zero point.</div></div>
This is the correct way to "zero" the turrets.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the first attempt, I lifted the cap higher, and then the set screws could not grab onto anything so I concluded that was useless. The second time around it seemed like the set screws grabbed onto the same piece of metal as they would when the turret is all the way down.</div></div>
As you have discovered, this procedure is incorrect.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So you can see I am confused here. Does anyone with this scope understand the inner workings and guide me as to how to properly set up this scope, so that I have my 26MIL fully available</div></div>
You said that you're getting 26 MILs' of Elevation after your 100 yard zero at the beginning of your post, so what is your question?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... on my previous MOA/MIL scope, I could rotate past the 56MOA (spec) point.</div></div>
You could rotate the DT Elevation Turret on your MOA-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] .25 MOA scope past 56 MOA because the "windowed" MOA-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] has 65 MOA of Elevation travel, NOT 56 MOA. I stated this in <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">my reply to you in your S&B question on zeroing and max elevation...</span></span> thread.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Here on this scope I cannot rotate past 26MIL, and the S&B literature suggests that scope can go beyond the 26MIL spec point, to effectively what is 100MOA or 29MIL.</div></div>
Again, the PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL has 26 MILs' of Elevation. It DOES NOT have 29 MILs' of Elevation. And also again, you said that you're getting 26 MILs' of Elevation after your 100 yard zero at the beginning of your post.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd like a 100 yard zero if that is possible.

Help! </div></div>
Uh...Hello McFly? Maybe three times is the charm. The PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL has 26 MILs' of Elevation. It DOES NOT have 29 MILs' of Elevation. <span style="font-style: italic">And also again</span>, you said that you're getting 26 MILs' of Elevation after your 100 yard zero at the beginning of your post.


Keith

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Thanks Keith for your patience.

Here's 4 confusing description tidbits from the S&B website:

- Here at this link (http://www.schmidtbender.com/PMspecs5_25x56LP.htm) it says that the PMII has an elevation range of 26MIL.

- And at another S&B website page, it says this:
"The 5–25 x 56 is offered with 56 MOA of 1/4 MOA clicks, or 273cm (93 MOA) of 1cm clicks. Your choice of P3 or P4 reticles"

- Same website page says: "The scope includes Schmidt & Bender's unique color-coded "Double Turn" elevation knob that gives the shooter instant reference to where the elevation is set. The entire 100-minute adjustment range can be covered in just two turns of the knob."

- In their so called operating manual it says this: "The factory sets these scopes
with the elevation turret at the end of the first
rotation—slightly more than half of its available
adjustment range and very close to centering the
reticle. This positions the MRAD model at 14 MRAD
and the MOA model at 35 MOA,"

So it's difficult to ascertain whether the scope has 56, ~70, 93, or 100MOA range, or in milliradians whether it has 26 or 27.3 MIL range...

Bottom line is I have 26 and a few cm clicks more, but I am not sure that's with a 100 yard zero since I never got a chance to reset the turret knobs and confirm zero. Furthermore at the long distance range (no 100 yard targets handy) I kept having to add two MILS to Shooters prediction. I'll know more on Wed tomorrow when I go sort all this out again at the range.

McFly out.

 

[300WSM]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

need pictures heh

 

[Aries64]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali_tz</span></span> -

You're killing me dude. The "windowed" MIL-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] has 26 MILs' of Elevation. There may be a little more, but basically theres' about 26 MILs' with a 45 MOA base.

Also, did you ever look at the Elevation Turret on your MOA-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] before you sold it? Did you ever notice that the [DT] Elevation Elevation Turret is graduated to 65 MOA? Why is what?

Just last month (11/17 at 2:31 PM PST to be exact), you said that you got 68 or 69 MOA out of it in your <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"S&B question on zeroing and max elevation..."</span></span> thread:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">with my S&B PMII 25x scope zero'd at 100 yards, I can dial up the scope elevation turret twice around, up to like 68 or 69 MOA up.</span></span> I forget the exact number, but there seems to be a hard stop there. Probably because there is no way to know if you are doing around the third time, for you S&B PMII owners, you know what I am talking about...</div></div>

For visual reference, below are some photos of an MOA-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] .25 MOA/click scope, courtesy of <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">euroOptic</span></span>.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Notice that the Elevation Turret reads to <span style="font-style: italic">"65" MOA - NOT "56".</span></span></span>

<span style="font-size: 11pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">MOA-based PMII 5-25X56 (Elevation Travel = 65 MOA):</span></span></span></span>

I had a close-up photo of an MOA-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] .25 MOA turret, but I can't find it in my Photobucket folder, but check-out <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Cross C's S&B 5-25 PMII MOA/MOA NEW MOA Reticle !!"</span></span> "For Sale" thread. You can see the DT Turret is graduated to 65 MOA.

Instead of solely relying on information on manufacturer web sites which is also passed on to dealers, you can also use your head and exercise some commmon sense. Everything that I've written in my replies to you is not only accurate, but verifiable through experience. Christ, you have your new MIL-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL in-hand - mount it and take it to the range, and zero it. That will tell you positively how much travel you have left after zeroing your rifle.

I'm sorry, but I give up. I cannot help you if you don't want to listen. I wish you <span style="font-style: italic">"Good Luck"</span>.


Keith

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Keith, it seems yes you cannot help me. Other than going to the range which I am doing tomorrow to zero it again, sometimes some of us like to understand what we are observing. To do that, sometimes we go to the manufacturers site to understand their specifications. And then contrast that with what we observe and then try to explain or determine the differences.

You seem fixated on pointing out the inconsistency in my post rather than those provided by the manufacturer. Great, you caught me in a dyslexic moment. I won't feel bad if you disengage yourself from this thread and let others who have useful answers engage.

To Tom Olson, since your setup and mine is identical except for the rifle/barrel itself, I wonder if my 40.6 MOA base (Spuhr + Steyr rail) isn't actually adding up to the same delivered cant (wrt to the barrel) as yours. Rechecking my zero using the Leupold tool (will recheck at the 100 yard range tomorrow) my scope stops at around 23MIL. Where did those missing 3 MIL go?

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

I suspect Hakan is not going to like this hack. Getting the digital calipers out I wanted to make sure I understood the geometry and math on both the Steyr base and the Spuhr 20.6 MOA mount. Ok, they were what they claimed to be, no surprise, but I conclude that I understand the math and the geometry of these two mounts.

(IF you want a handy calc for this purpose, go here: http://www.handymath.com/cgi-bin/arc18.cgi?submit=Entry)

So I needed to bump up my slope. For sure I can't shim underneath the Pic rail, as it has six screws all along the length and any shimming will cause distortion and tension of the rail. Clearly not a good solution. From the math, it seemed that if I added an 0.08mm height just behind the rear most screw of Spuhr mount, that I would get all of the 26MIL range. So I hacked a piece of feeler gauge at 0.076mm and placed it so that the Spuhr mount would bump up by that amount at the right point in the 'radius' of the arc. That did the trick... I haven't torqued the Spuhr to Pic screws down to spec but just to 40inch pounds, but I now get 26.5 MIL as my max possible elevation, given the 100 yard zero (again this is approximate because I am using the Leupold boresighter 100 yard zero).

I am a bit concerned that the Spur mount is not being held to the Pic rail as perfectly as it would be without the shim. But given the way it clamps to the sides of the Pic Rail, it seemed relatively benign compared to shimming under the Pic rail itself. Obviously there is plenty of lugs and screws left to lck it into a Pic rail... 0.08mm won't mess with that at all. I'll have to shoot this config a bit and see if the zero wanders around after some tens of rounds.

 

[dieselten]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Dude, you will never sleep again. Every time you get a flyer you will wonder.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dieselten</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dude, you will never sleep again. Every time you get a flyer you will wonder.
</div></div>

Thanks for planting that in my head

Well I know how this rifle shoots in terms of groups, just did some OCW dev last week... I will know tomorrow whether this was a good idea or not. It's only 0.076mm... The other issue is could it crush over time, thus lowering the scope cant. Maybe what I need a is a proper custom 25MOA mount.

 

[Aries64]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keith, it seems yes you cannot help me. Other than going to the range which I am doing tomorrow to zero it again, sometimes some of us like to understand what we are observing.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali_tz</span></span>
I also like to understand what I'm observing. It also seems that I understand the physics involved better and know the specs better than most on this site, including certain owners and retailers of PMIIs'. I've taken lots of time and effort to post the Elevation travel specifications and required cants for various PMIIs', including the fact that the PMII 5-25X[56mm] has 65 MOA of travel (instead of 56 MOA as everyone keeps saying that is has), explained how and why the PMIIs' work best with the recommended cants.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To do that, sometimes we go to the manufacturers site to understand their specifications. And then contrast that with what we observe and then try to explain or determine the differences.</div></div>
The manufacturer's specifications as listed on their web sites <span style="font-style: italic">should</span> be accurate, but as <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">I mentioned to "Mark S" in your S&B question on zeroing and max elevation...</span></span> thread and as you also mentioned several posts above this one some of data on Schmidt Bender USA's web site is inaccurate. Schmidt Bender USA's PMII web page states <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">"The 5–25 x 56 is offered with 56 MOA of 1/4 MOA clicks</span>, or 273cm (93 MOA) of 1cm clicks. Your choice of P3 or P4 reticles."</span>

Something that can be somewhat confusing is <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000"> "273cm (93 MOA) of 1cm clicks"</span></span>. This phrase mixes 273cm (more accurately 273 0.1 MIL) and 93 MOA in the same sentence, which shouldn't be done. While it is technically pretty accurate, its' confusing. <span style="font-style: italic">However, look at how it breaks down:</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">273 0.1 MIL/36" clicks = 273/27.3 x .36" = 98.28"

98.28" divided by 1.047"/1 MOA = 93.868 MOA</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You seem fixated on pointing out the inconsistency in my post rather than those provided by the manufacturer.</div></div>
I've actually pointed-out some of the erroneous data on S & B's web site a bunch of times over the years, my favorite being <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">"The 5–25 x 56 is offered with 56 MOA of 1/4 MOA clicks</span>, or 273cm (93 MOA) of 1cm clicks. Your choice of P3 or P4 reticles."</span> However, no one pays attention, including many retailers. They're probably just copying specs off of S & B's web site. Afterall, you would think that all of the info on S & B's web site is accurate, right? Oops. Mistakes happen, but you would think that someone would take the time to fix the data so this bogus information doesn't continue to be spread. I've spoken to Mark Cromwell (President, S & B USA, Inc.) about it, but I'm sure Mark has other priorities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great, you caught me in a dyslexic moment. I won't feel bad if you disengage yourself from this thread and let others who have useful answers engage.</div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali</span></span>: Forgive me, but if you don't find my answers are useful, you're in a dyslexic state. A basic understanding of the interaction between parts is necessary to an understanding of the results downrange. Its' not rocket-science, but you do need to use your head a bit.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To Tom Olson, since your setup and mine is identical except for the rifle/barrel itself, I wonder if my 40.6 MOA base (Spuhr + Steyr rail) isn't actually adding up to the same delivered cant (wrt to the barrel) as yours. Rechecking my zero using the Leupold tool (will recheck at the 100 yard range tomorrow) my scope stops at around 23MIL. Where did those missing 3 MIL go? </div></div>
The Leupold "Zero Point" can be useful in getting on paper quickly and for checking reticle movement, but placing the Zero Point in exactly the right spot on the barrel can be tricky. I have one but I just use it to check for reticle movement at the extremes.

The definitive way of accurately determining how much Elevation travel you actually have on a given rifle with a given load is to zero it. Until you zero the rifle its' all academic. You may find that your "missing" less than 3 MILs', but then again maybe not.

Also, in reply to your shim hack, IMHO you should try zeroing your rifle without the shim first. The SPUHR Mount seems like a well-engineered and precisely-machined mount, and it would be a shame to "rig" a nice, clean elegant setup unnecessarily with a shim. Unless you really "need" the shim I wouldn't use it, at least until you've zeroed without it and determined that you actually need the added height of the shim. But what do I know - my answers are "useless"...


Keith

 

[CMonty256]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Im curious to the reason behind this 26mil witch hunt... I personally own a 5-25x56 myself however with it mounted on my 308 ill never even get close to using the full range. I can understand the thought behind wanting to get everything out of the product you have bought. But to what ends?

 

[Aries64]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMonty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Im curious to the reason behind this 26mil witch hunt... I personally own a 5-25x56 myself however with it mounted on my 308 ill never even get close to using the full range. I can understand the thought behind wanting to get everything out of the product you have bought. But to what ends? </div></div>
The OP (<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali-_tz</span></span>) has his new PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL mounted on a .338LM. While the shooter, rifle, ammo, and the environmental conditions all affect the outcome of the shot/groups, the .338LM cartridge itself is capable of extreme long range accuracy (2,000+ yards). Depending upon the load, the full (26 MILs') range of Elevation can allow a dead-on hold out to around 1,900 yards or so.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali-_tz</span></span> originally had the MOA-based version of the PMII 5-25X[56mm] (65 MOA of Elevation in .25 MOA adjustments) mounted on a Steyr-supplied 20 MOA base on the same rifle that his new PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL is mounted on (Steyr .338LM). <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali-_tz</span></span> said that he had bought the MOA-based PMII 5-25X[56mm] because he was used to MOA, but that he didn't realize that the MOA version has less travel than the MIL version. See <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">cali-_tz</span></span>'s <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"S&B question on zeroing and max elevation..."</span></span> thread for the full story.

I own two (2) PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL Gen 2 XR CCWs' and I crank the Elevation dials a lot. One is mounted on a Tac Ops 40 MOA Two-Piece base on top of my Tac Ops X-Ray 51 (.308), while the other is mounted on a Murphy Precision 25 MOA Two-Piece base on top of a Kimber Model 82 22LR. In very calm wind the PMII on the Kimber sometimes gets dialed-out to 20 MIL's (40gr. Winchester T22 at 400 yards), but I'm at the Elevation's Stop with the 25 MOA base. I could have another custom base made for the Kimber in 40 MOA if I wanted to push it out further, but 400 yards is really the realistic limit for my Model 82 .22LR and I with T22. High velocity 40grs. don't fair much better, so I think I'll save the money and the 40 MOA base for a full-size .22LR Repeater.

I already own several very accurate bolt .22LRs' as well as an insanely-accurate full-custom 10/22 clone, so my plan was to have a full-size .22LR Repeater built-up to mimick my X-Ray 51. I want to set the rifles' up as closely as possible in terms of equipment and "heft" - right down to the X-Ray's re-worked McMillan A5 stock, barrel, and optics. That plan has been stalled for years while waiting for a 40X 22LR Repeater clone and it looks like light is at the end of the tunnel now with the BlackOps Precision <span style="font-style: italic">(formerly UnderGround Skunkworks)</span> Model 605.

The farthest I've been out to with a .308 is about 1,200 yards, which is right at the edge of the second turn (13 MILs'). I also have a 7WSM that I bought several years ago that I intended to have built-up for long range. The ballistics of the 7WSM would be right at the edge of the PMII 5-25X[56mm] 0.1 MIL's 26 MIL Elevation travel, so of course a 40-45 MOA base is needed to access as much travel as possible. Again, I wanted to set the rifle up as closely as possible to the others in terms of equipment and "heft". In the end I may have Tac Ops build me an "X-Ray 66" (.300WM) so I can clone the Federal Gold Medal Match round and reload.


Keith

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Cmonty, there's a group of us working our way out to a mile and then beyond. Mix of 338LM, and larger calibers. I first had a S&B PMII 5x25 with MOA turrets, but the mechanism for elevation divided the travel up in quarter MOAs, and that meant the scope reticle center maxed out somewhere around 65-67MOA up from a 100 yard zero. That would be enough to get to like 1600 yards, if I recall, but left me using the P4F reticle to hold over for longer distances.

A full 26MIL of elevation (according to S&B that's what the MIL/MIL can do with a 45MOA base and the 'right' calibre round) on a 100 yard zero for my load would allow me to use the reticle center to past 2000 yards, maybe around 2250 depending on how hot I want to push the round, at which point I can use my reticle again to hold over.

After you invest a ton of money in an expensive long range platform like the 338LM, the last thing you want to have happen is to be limited artificially by the scope to less than the rifle platforms total potential range.

Looks like I am going to end up with a total of 50MOA scope base, which means I may have to zero out to 200-300 yards, but will get me all of that 26MIL plus.

I don't know yet if we will be rewarded with sub MOA accuracy at and past a mile, but at 1600 yards myself and a 375 Cheytac did surprisingly well with 300 grain Scenars. It's an interesting pursuit to go from 1000 to 2000 yards... alot more things have to go right.

 

[CMonty256]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

Roger that cali, I can understand you then. Other than my 308 i have a Barrett 98B in 338LM and if I had a range around to shoot 1mile + I would definitely be concerned with maximizing the total elevation available. But since my local range is 700M and within 2 hours i can go to 1k, I won't be seeing the 2nd turn of my 5-25 any time soon.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CMonty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Roger that cali, I can understand you then. Other than my 308 i have a Barrett 98B in 338LM and if I had a range around to shoot 1mile + I would definitely be concerned with maximizing the total elevation available. But since my local range is 700M and within 2 hours i can go to 1k, I won't be seeing the 2nd turn of my 5-25 any time soon. </div></div>

That's too bad about the limited distance of your range. Although the first time you get good hits at 1500+ you may get addicted to the chase like the our small group out here in Northern Cal. I am aware of how spoiled we are to have relatively unoccupied BLM land to shoot out and beyond a mile. That does some offset some of the kooky negatives of California's legal environment.

If you ever happen to be out in Northern Cal, ship your Barrett out here and we'll take you out to our spot. Or I'd be happy to let you shoot our various long range platforms.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: S&B PMII 5x25 scope setup confusion

finally resolved this issue today. I had returned my 20MOA Spuhr mount, and put on a 44.4MOA Spuhr ISMS mount. THe 20MOA Spuhr on top of my 20MOA Pic rail did not get me a 100 yard zero and the full 26 MIL elevation potential of the scope. The 44.4 MOA Spuhr gave me a total of 64.4 MOA scope forward cant. Much more than the supposed 45 MOA that you are told is right for this scope.

With this 64.4 MOA cant I am now zero'd at 100 yards and able to get about 27MILs of elevation (26 being the 'spec'). This is on my Steyr SSG08 and YMMV elsewhere.