Rifle Scopes S&B Reticle
- Thread starter LukeUSMC
- Start date
Re: S&B Reticle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shopping around for a new scope. Probably going with the S&B, was wondering what reticles ya'll went with. On the Ill models, does only the very center light up or the hole cross hair?
Thanks,
Luke </div></div>
I recommend the P4 reticle.
The LR models only have the crosshair intersection lit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shopping around for a new scope. Probably going with the S&B, was wondering what reticles ya'll went with. On the Ill models, does only the very center light up or the hole cross hair?
Thanks,
Luke </div></div>
I recommend the P4 reticle.
The LR models only have the crosshair intersection lit.
Re: S&B Reticle
P4 Fine Reticle. Even on high setting you don't have the reticle obscuring the target image and the lit portion is the center + only. Not a negative for me. Anthony
P4 Fine Reticle. Even on high setting you don't have the reticle obscuring the target image and the lit portion is the center + only. Not a negative for me. Anthony
Re: S&B Reticle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shopping around for a new scope. Probably going with the S&B, was wondering what reticles ya'll went with.</div></div>
I have two "German" PMII 5-25X LP (Illuminated) DT (Double Turn) CM Gen 2 XRs'. The very fine lines of the reticle work really well for shooting small targets at long range, as you can easily "quarter" a 1/2 MOA target at 1,000 yards or so. It is also one of the very few reticles available in a FFP scope that with a reticle fine enough to allow the shooter to keep a consistent POA. A P3 is more difficult to shoot <.25 MOA with because the reticle covers too much of the target area.
However, the drawback is that at the lower powers or in low light the reticle disappears for many shooters. I find it hard to use the reticle for ranging below 7X or 8X unless in good light, but thats why I have a Swarovski LG30. I rarely dial below 10X anyway.
If you are going with a 4-16X you may find the Gen 2 XR too fine for general use. I like the P4F in the 4-16Xs' - less fine than the Gen 2 XR, but more fine than the (standard) Mildot P3, Gen 2 XL Mildot (Premier Reticles designed) or P4.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the Ill models, does only the very center light up or the hole cross hair?
Thanks,
Luke </div></div>
It depends upon the reticle. On the <span style="font-weight: bold">P3</span>, <span style="font-weight: bold">P4</span>, and <span style="font-weight: bold">P4F</span> only the "crosshair" (intersection) is illuminated. On the <span style="font-weight: bold">Reticle No. 7</span> in the CQB only the dot is illuminated.
On the Gen 2 XL (another Premier design) the crosshair, plus two MILs' LEFT and two MILs' RIGHT, as well as 4 MILS' UP are illuminated.
On the Gen 2 XR much more of the reticle is illuminated. BTW, all PMII 5-25Xs' are LP (Illuminated) and DT (Double Turn) See schematics courtesy of Premier Reticles below:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Schmidt & Bender PMII 4-16X Gen 2 XL LP:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Schmidt & Bender PMII 4-16X and 5-25X Gen 2 XR LP:</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">"Trust your feelings Luke..."</span> - Alex Guiness as <span style="font-style: italic">Obi Wan Kenobi</span>, <span style="font-style: italic">Star Wars</span> - 1977
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shopping around for a new scope. Probably going with the S&B, was wondering what reticles ya'll went with.</div></div>
I have two "German" PMII 5-25X LP (Illuminated) DT (Double Turn) CM Gen 2 XRs'. The very fine lines of the reticle work really well for shooting small targets at long range, as you can easily "quarter" a 1/2 MOA target at 1,000 yards or so. It is also one of the very few reticles available in a FFP scope that with a reticle fine enough to allow the shooter to keep a consistent POA. A P3 is more difficult to shoot <.25 MOA with because the reticle covers too much of the target area.
However, the drawback is that at the lower powers or in low light the reticle disappears for many shooters. I find it hard to use the reticle for ranging below 7X or 8X unless in good light, but thats why I have a Swarovski LG30. I rarely dial below 10X anyway.
If you are going with a 4-16X you may find the Gen 2 XR too fine for general use. I like the P4F in the 4-16Xs' - less fine than the Gen 2 XR, but more fine than the (standard) Mildot P3, Gen 2 XL Mildot (Premier Reticles designed) or P4.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the Ill models, does only the very center light up or the hole cross hair?
Thanks,
Luke </div></div>
It depends upon the reticle. On the <span style="font-weight: bold">P3</span>, <span style="font-weight: bold">P4</span>, and <span style="font-weight: bold">P4F</span> only the "crosshair" (intersection) is illuminated. On the <span style="font-weight: bold">Reticle No. 7</span> in the CQB only the dot is illuminated.
On the Gen 2 XL (another Premier design) the crosshair, plus two MILs' LEFT and two MILs' RIGHT, as well as 4 MILS' UP are illuminated.
On the Gen 2 XR much more of the reticle is illuminated. BTW, all PMII 5-25Xs' are LP (Illuminated) and DT (Double Turn) See schematics courtesy of Premier Reticles below:
<span style="font-weight: bold">Schmidt & Bender PMII 4-16X Gen 2 XL LP:</span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Schmidt & Bender PMII 4-16X and 5-25X Gen 2 XR LP:</span>
<span style="font-style: italic">"Trust your feelings Luke..."</span> - Alex Guiness as <span style="font-style: italic">Obi Wan Kenobi</span>, <span style="font-style: italic">Star Wars</span> - 1977
Keith
Re: S&B Reticle
I loved the P4Fine in my 5-25.
I loved the P4Fine in my 5-25.
Re: S&B Reticle
I second the XR.
I second the XR.
Re: S&B Reticle
Has anyone ever asked S&B to light all the mil markings on a P4F like on the Vortex Razor. I am considering a S&B but wish more than just the center cross was lit since I would only be using it on steel targets.
Has anyone ever asked S&B to light all the mil markings on a P4F like on the Vortex Razor. I am considering a S&B but wish more than just the center cross was lit since I would only be using it on steel targets.
Re: S&B Reticle
I have 2 5-25 PMII's one with a P4 fine and one with the GenIIXR.
I see no problems with either. Converted to mil/mil on all glass.
I have 2 5-25 PMII's one with a P4 fine and one with the GenIIXR.
I see no problems with either. Converted to mil/mil on all glass.
Re: S&B Reticle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shopping around for a new scope. Probably going with the S&B, was wondering what reticles ya'll went with. On the Ill models, does only the very center light up or the hole cross hair?</div></div>
It depends on which scope you want to get. At the SHOT Show, I heard an S&B rep tell someone that the P4F is recommended for the 5-25x and the P4 for the 3-12x. I have the P4F in one of my 4-16x scopes and it works well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shopping around for a new scope. Probably going with the S&B, was wondering what reticles ya'll went with. On the Ill models, does only the very center light up or the hole cross hair?</div></div>
It depends on which scope you want to get. At the SHOT Show, I heard an S&B rep tell someone that the P4F is recommended for the 5-25x and the P4 for the 3-12x. I have the P4F in one of my 4-16x scopes and it works well.
Re: S&B Reticle
I have the P4f and P4 and Gen 2XR. The XR is my favorite.
I have the P4f and P4 and Gen 2XR. The XR is my favorite.
Re: S&B Reticle
+1 on the P4. I also like the standard P3 mildot, but have got the chance to get behind the P4 and P4 fine, very nice.
Here is the P3, target is 10x17"
Kirk R
+1 on the P4. I also like the standard P3 mildot, but have got the chance to get behind the P4 and P4 fine, very nice.
Here is the P3, target is 10x17"
Kirk R
Re: S&B Reticle
I have a 5-25 with P4F on the way and can't wait to get my hands and eyes on it.
I have a 5-25 with P4F on the way and can't wait to get my hands and eyes on it.
Re: S&B Reticle
Here is where I have got my last 2 S&Bs. Good people and also a hide member. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1156450#Post1156450
Here is where I have got my last 2 S&Bs. Good people and also a hide member. http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1156450#Post1156450
Re: S&B Reticle
I got mine from the britts,
oticswarehouse.co.uk
Good pricing, at least for me and solid delivery time, 8 days from order to inhand.
Best regards Chris
I got mine from the britts,
oticswarehouse.co.uk
Good pricing, at least for me and solid delivery time, 8 days from order to inhand.
Best regards Chris
Re: S&B Reticle
I own 2 S&B one of the PM's 3x12x50 has the Dutch 4a Mil Dot and the second one is a 3x12x50PM2 P3 Mil Lighted reticle ,I have used about ever scope that has a Brand Name since 1960 and the S&B's that I own have or have used the Glass is Just Awesome the best I have ever seen.
I own 2 S&B one of the PM's 3x12x50 has the Dutch 4a Mil Dot and the second one is a 3x12x50PM2 P3 Mil Lighted reticle ,I have used about ever scope that has a Brand Name since 1960 and the S&B's that I own have or have used the Glass is Just Awesome the best I have ever seen.
Re: S&B Reticle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did ya'll order your S&B's from? Anybody have a good experence with a place?
I think I'm going to get the 4-16x50 Ill Mil/mil </div></div>
PM <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Matt in Virginia</span></span> here on the Hide' and ask him about Sniper's Hide member pricing. Excellent prices and service.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LukeUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did ya'll order your S&B's from? Anybody have a good experence with a place?
I think I'm going to get the 4-16x50 Ill Mil/mil </div></div>
PM <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Matt in Virginia</span></span> here on the Hide' and ask him about Sniper's Hide member pricing. Excellent prices and service.
Keith
Re: S&B Reticle
Alex @ Euro Optics was out of town when I called him for a S&B 5-25 with P4F and 1/10 Mil CCW but he still had a hand on his inventory and was able to make a good deal.
Alex @ Euro Optics was out of town when I called him for a S&B 5-25 with P4F and 1/10 Mil CCW but he still had a hand on his inventory and was able to make a good deal.
Re: S&B Reticle
I really like the Gen II XL I have in my 4-16x42 PM II.
I really like the Gen II XL I have in my 4-16x42 PM II.
Re: S&B Reticle
Big +1 for the Gen II XL-- it kicks ass in my 4-16x50 PM II.
Big +1 for the Gen II XL-- it kicks ass in my 4-16x50 PM II.
Re: S&B Reticle
Which reticle is finer gen 2 xr or p4f?
David
Which reticle is finer gen 2 xr or p4f?
David
Re: S&B Reticle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 737SHARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which reticle is finer gen 2 xr or p4f?
David </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">The Gen 2 XR</span>. The Gen 2 XR's main vertices subtend <span style="font-style: italic">.075"/1.90500mm</span> at 100 yards.
The P4F's main vertices subtend <span style="font-style: italic">.13"/3.30200mm</span> at 100 yards.
So the P4F's main vertices are <span style="font-weight: bold">.05500"/1.397mm</span> <span style="font-style: italic">thicker</span> than the main vertices of the Gen 2 XR.
<span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> PMII Gen 2 XR subtensions derived from Premier Reticles PMII 4-16X /5-25X Gen 2 XR PDF dated 10/2007.
PMII P4F subtensions derived from dimension key for P4F in Schmidt Bender PMII User's Manual, pg. 26.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 737SHARK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Which reticle is finer gen 2 xr or p4f?
David </div></div>
<span style="font-weight: bold">The Gen 2 XR</span>. The Gen 2 XR's main vertices subtend <span style="font-style: italic">.075"/1.90500mm</span> at 100 yards.
The P4F's main vertices subtend <span style="font-style: italic">.13"/3.30200mm</span> at 100 yards.
So the P4F's main vertices are <span style="font-weight: bold">.05500"/1.397mm</span> <span style="font-style: italic">thicker</span> than the main vertices of the Gen 2 XR.
<span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> PMII Gen 2 XR subtensions derived from Premier Reticles PMII 4-16X /5-25X Gen 2 XR PDF dated 10/2007.
PMII P4F subtensions derived from dimension key for P4F in Schmidt Bender PMII User's Manual, pg. 26.
Keith
Re: S&B Reticle
Just FYI, you can no longer get the Premier Reticles Gen 2 or Gen 2 XL in a Schmidt Bender scope. Unless there is one on the shelf somewhere, you need to buy the PH scopes to get these reticles, Premier will not install them anymore.
Just FYI, you can no longer get the Premier Reticles Gen 2 or Gen 2 XL in a Schmidt Bender scope. Unless there is one on the shelf somewhere, you need to buy the PH scopes to get these reticles, Premier will not install them anymore.
Re: S&B Reticle
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, you can no longer get the Premier Reticles Gen 2 or Gen 2 XL in a Schmidt Bender scope. Unless there is one on the shelf somewhere, you need to buy the PH scopes to get these reticles, Premier will not install them anymore. </div></div>
Sad but true. It is nearly impossible to find a brand new PMII with a Premier patented reticle. You have to scour the FS sections of firearms-related web sites constantly to find a used one, and they sell pretty much immediately when listed. A member here bought a NIB PMII 5-25X with Gen 2 XR about three months ago from an authorized seller here, but that was a lucky fluke. And I bought my second PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR ANIB from another member here about the same time.
Keith
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just FYI, you can no longer get the Premier Reticles Gen 2 or Gen 2 XL in a Schmidt Bender scope. Unless there is one on the shelf somewhere, you need to buy the PH scopes to get these reticles, Premier will not install them anymore. </div></div>
Sad but true. It is nearly impossible to find a brand new PMII with a Premier patented reticle. You have to scour the FS sections of firearms-related web sites constantly to find a used one, and they sell pretty much immediately when listed. A member here bought a NIB PMII 5-25X with Gen 2 XR about three months ago from an authorized seller here, but that was a lucky fluke. And I bought my second PMII 5-25X Gen 2 XR ANIB from another member here about the same time.
Keith
