Rifle Scopes S@B reticle

[canuck4570]

Yes I made a search but not conclusive
what I would like to know is
I have a NF 5.5-22x56 with NPR1 reticle a lot of you have the same scope
so is the P4 fine reticle of the SB 5-25x56 at 5x finer or the same or thicker than the NF reticle
this would help me choose between the 4f and 4f fine
going to the SB because of the fast focus eyepiece ( my eyes are not what they use to be )
and the NF reticle seems thin to me....

 

[tjonh2001]

Re: S@B reticle

the p4f is thinner then the nf npr1. if you want thicker lines go with the regular p4. i use the p4f in mine and they are thin but if you want a thicker line maybe try the p3.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: S@B reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tjonh2001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the p4f is thinner then the nf npr1. if you want thicker lines go with the regular p4. i use the p4f in mine and they are thin but if you want a thicker line maybe try the p3. </div></div>

thank you Tjonh2001
if I get you correctly the P4F lines on the S@B at 5x are thinner than the NPR1 on the NF
after the search I came to the conclusion the the regular P4 reticle was for me, but pictures I saw of both reticle side by sides sometimes does not give you a a fair representation of them
so was the reason of my asking
one more question if I may
the elevation are offered in MOA, CM, and in Mrad if I select the CM turret will the P4 be compatible whit it?

thank you again and take care
Canuck

 

[Hellbender]

Re: S@B reticle

The P4 is graduated in mils.

CM and Mrad are the same adjustment scale (mils), but one is CW (CM) rotation and the other is CCW (Mrad).

Your NF is CCW rotation.

 

[canuck4570]

Re: S@B reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The P4 is graduated in mils.

CM and Mrad are the same adjustment scale (mils), but one is CW (CM) rotation and the other is CCW (Mrad).

Your NF is CCW rotation. </div></div>

I am puzzled ny NF turret are 1/4 moa
Does this mean its a CCW?

just made a search and I am red face
cw ccw now I know what that means
you guys have patience to keep up whit us new to long range shooting

 

[Aries64]

Re: S@B reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
...CM and Mrad are the same adjustment scale (mils), <span style="color: #FF0000">but one is CW (CM) rotation and the other is CCW (Mrad)</span>...
</div></div>
What? CM and 0.1 MRAD turrets are indeed the same adjustment increment, but you are confused if you equate CW (Clockwise) rotation with CM (1 Centimeter at 100 Meters), and CCW rotation with MRAD. The direction of rotation does not determine the adjustment increment and vice-versa.

S & B (as well as other European scope manufacturers') use CW rotation direction by default. The same is true of FFP. Ask any S & B dealer worth his or her salt and they will confirm this. You will get the same answer if you email or call Mark Cromwell at S & B Inc., USA.

Keith

 

[canuck4570]

Re: S@B reticle

thank you Aries

 

[Hellbender]

Re: S@B reticle

Aries64.....

You are correct, the adjustment amount does NOT change with rotation direction, but S&B marks CM on their "normal" (CW) rotation turrets and Mrad on the CCW turrets, I guess to differentiate between the two.

CM and .1 mrad @100 meters are the same adjustment amount.

This has been what I have observed on several models.

EDIT:: I have been informed this is only on certian models, I had a CW 4-16 marked CM and seen the CCW 4-16's marked mrad. I guess different models have different markings.

 

[Aries64]

Re: S@B reticle

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Aries64.....

You are correct, the adjustment amount does NOT change with rotation direction, but S&B marks CM on their "normal" (CW) rotation turrets and Mrad on the CCW turrets, I guess to differentiate between the two.</div></div>
Sorry <span style="font-style: italic">Hellbender</span>, but your guess is incorrect. S & B <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">does not</span></span> inscribe "<span style="font-style: italic">CM</span>" on CW (Clockwise) rotation turrets and "<span style="font-style: italic">MRAD</span>" on CCW (Counterclockwise) turrets as a way to differentiate between CW and CCW rotation directions. S & B's milradian-based PMII turrets were <span style="font-style: italic">formerly</span> inscribed "<span style="font-style: italic">1 KLICK = 1 CM</span>", but several years ago the inscription was changed to "<span style="font-style: italic">1 CLICK = 0.1 MRAD</span>".

If you happen to have seen or own/owned "CM"-marked CW S & B scopes and/or happen to have seen or own/owned "MRAD"-marked CCW S & B scopes that is pure coincidence. Don't forget that S & Bs' can be ordered with CCW turrets as a factory option, have the turret rotation and/or adjustment type converted, ect., or that Premier used to perform those and other services on S & B scopes.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
CM and .1 mrad @100 meters are the same adjustment amount.
</div></div>
Yes, they are <span style="font-style: italic">"the same adjustment amount"</span> - I stated that in my previous post four (4) posts above. <span style="font-style: italic">See below:</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
...CM and 0.1 MRAD turrets are indeed the same adjustment increment...
</div></div>
However, the CM (Centimeter) is a <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">linear unit of measure</span></span>, while the MRAD (Milradian) is an <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">angular unit of measure</span></span>. <span style="font-style: italic">Lindy</span> used to (rightfully) bash on S & B for marking their turrets <span style="font-style: italic">"1 KLICK = 1 CM"</span>. I don't know if S & B changed the inscription on their turrets because of Lindy's bashing, but S & B changed the inscription on the Windage turret to "<span style="font-style: italic">1 CLICK = 0.1 MRAD</span>" several years ago. (S & B Elevation turrets have a sticker on top that reads "<span style="font-style: italic">1 CLICK = 0.1 MRAD</span>").

The Windage turrets on both of my "100% German" PMII 5-25X DT LP CM CW Gen 2 XR scopes were inscribed "<span style="font-style: italic">1 CLICK = 0.1 MRAD</span>" <span style="font-weight: bold">before I sent both scopes back to S & B to have their turrets converted to CCW rotation.</span> Of course, both Windage turrets are inscribed "<span style="font-style: italic">1 CLICK = 0.1 MRAD</span>" now as well.

<span style="font-weight: bold">NOTE:</span> <span style="font-style: italic">"100% German" PMII 5-25X DT LP CM CW Gen 2 XR </span> = Gen 2 XR reticle factory-installed. (The majority of Gen 2 XR-equipped scopes started-out with standard S & B reticle offerings and were subsequently retrofitted with the Gen 2 XR reticle by Premier).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hellbender</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This has been what I have observed on several models.

EDIT:: I have been informed this is only on certian models, I had a CW 4-16 marked CM and seen the CCW 4-16's marked mrad. I guess different models have different markings.
</div></div>
See the first two (2) paragraphs above in this post.

Keith

 

[Hellbender]

Re: S@B reticle

Aries64..

Thanks for your clarification of this.

I got a NIB 4-16 in March (this year), I ordered a CCW, but it came in CW (it was drop shipped from S&B), it was marked CM on the turrets.

I immediately called S&B and they said the CCW would all be marked mrad and if mine was marked CM, they knew it was CW, not CCW.

So I assumed (you know what that means) what I stated above, but looking back, I see they knew because it was older stock, and not just because it was CW rotation.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Hellbender]

Re: S@B reticle

Aries64..

After getting to my office and pulling out the newest S&B catalog I picked up at SHOT, it seems we are BOTH wrong...and right.

It depends on the model....

ALL the 5-25's are .1 mrad marked, both cw and ccw.

All the 4-16's (EXCEPT the 42mm PMII/LP) are CM marked on the cw rotation and the ccw rotation are .1 mrad marked, all the /P, /LP and/MTC's,

The only 4-16 marked with .1 mrad on both cw and ccw is the 42mm PMII/LP

The 3-12's are available marked about any way you want.

The specifications page also lists the elevation travel, depending on turret marking, as either 0-13 mrad or 0-130 cm.

As Colonel Klink would say.....Veerly Interlesting!!!
(That was Klink.....right????, don't want to start another argument!!!

)

 

[Hellbender]

Re: S@B reticle

I think maybe they don't even know what they have, I just copied this off their web page...

"The 5–25 x 56 is offered with 56 MOA of 1/4 MOA clicks, or 273cm (93 MOA) of 1cm clicks. Your choice of P3 or P4 reticles."

The new catalog states 65 MOA of elevation travel on the 1/4MOA and only .1 mrad click values available on the 5-25.