SA Hellion

[Halfnutz]

Forgotten Weapeons did a bit on this.
I've never messed with a Bullpup, I know triggers leave alot to be desired.

Been thinking about something different like BRN 180 bit maybe the Hellion is something I'll look at.

Thoughts?

 

[Gtscotty]

The coordinated intro/social media blitz was hard to miss yesterday, with forgotten weapons, Inrange, TFB, etc all putting out videos. Advertising aside, it does look neat to me as it's basically a slightly Americanized version of the VHS-2 Croatian service rifle. I know Bullpups in general take some flack for ergos, trigger, etc. but the ability to have a 16" barrel with suppressor in a reasonably short package is kind of alluring. MSRP is $2k, seems like street prices will likely be similar to the Tavor and AUG?

Hellion™ 5.56 Rifle - Springfield Armory

www.springfield-armory.com

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Springfield Armory Hellion: A First Look

Based on the Croatian VHS-2, the Springfield Armory Hellion is a semi-automatic bullpup rifle that marks the company's first major new-gun release for 2022.

www.americanrifleman.org

The VHS-2 is HERE: NEW Springfield Hellion Bullpup Review & Mud Test -

In this episode of TFBTV, James Reeves is pleased to announce the Springfield Hellion bullpup rifle, aka the HS Produkt VHS-2 (specifically, the VHS-K2).

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[JS8588]

It looks cool. Really cool, actually. I won't be buying one for 2 reasons.

1.) Really awkward bolt release (check the TFB video).
2.) 8-9lb trigger. I know, I know. Bullpup triggers always suck.

Even at $1500 street, I have better things to spend my $$ on. That said, don't think I'd talk anyone else out of it. Something being a show stopper -for me- doesn't make it bad & I'm glad to see a new import brought to our shores.

 

[Halfnutz]

Bolt release does look weird.
I'm thinking $1700ish but that's still a chunk for a 2moa novelty. But it's still on my radar.
I still haven't seen a way point or a SA Hi Power in the wild so the lack of availability may cool my jets.

 

[Evintos]

It ultimately depends on the level of aftermarket support but it's looking better than Tavor SAR, IWI X95, Steyr AUG, and with a better "street cred" than MDR. It's use in the fight against ISIS/ISIL in the dusty environments of Iraq/Kurdistan is what sold me. Been wanting one for a long time but not at the inflated over MSRP price.

The potential for aftermarket accessories is higher than most bullpups. Flared mag well is possible since the original is removable/replaceable (it has that standard European style slim magwell that requires stripping mags out rather than making it drop free), aftermarket stocks with various shapes and maybe even shorter LOP, aftermarket handguards (slimmer more MLOK slots). Safety seems not quite ergonomic. Bolt release is ramp is too smooth and would require a ergonomic design change to make a deeper ledge. Potential for aftermarket adjustable gas plugs. Seems like it's a solid 2MOA or better. Needs an aftermarket trigger though. The BCM grip (I have them on all my ARs and AR308s) on the VHS-2 is an abomination. The angle looks off. They should come out with one styled like the original sort of like how S&W did their M&P15 grip that looks like the M&P pistol line.

Of course the production of aftermarket accessories is never guaranteed, the hope is at least someone comes out with a great aftermarket trigger.

Here's one from Cameroon.

 

[GUNNER10]

Forgotten Weapeons did a bit on this.
I've never messed with a Bullpup, I know triggers leave alot to be desired.

Been thinking about something different like BRN 180 bit maybe the Hellion is something I'll look at.

Thoughts?

For something different, I think it looks really cool . Seems to have a solid track record, while not bargain basement, doesn't seem to be absurdly overpriced.

 

[308pirate]

it's looking better than Tavor SAR, IWI X95, Steyr AUG

How on earth can you say that?

 

[Evintos]

How on earth can you say that?

LOL, I'm a fan of that HK G36C shape and that's how I kinda see the VHS-2/Hellion, a bullpup HK G36.

 

[Halfnutz]

How on earth can you say that?

As I don't have direct experience with any of them, whats your view on why any of those are better or at least equal.

Always thought the Aug was cool, probably from watching "Die Hard".
The Tavor is different, it does at least have aftermarket trigger available that it's an improvement is an assumption.

All seem to be in the same price range.
If money weren't an issue I'd have one of each, though I don't see them getting an abundance of use.

 

[308pirate]

As I don't have direct experience with any of them, whats your view on why any of those are better or at least equal.

Always thought the Aug was cool, probably from watching "Die Hard".
The Tavor is different, it does at least have aftermarket trigger available that it's an improvement is an assumption.

All seem to be in the same price range.
If money weren't an issue I'd have one of each, though I don't see them getting an abundance of use.

I made no claim as to which one is better or worse than any of the others.

I questioned someone else making that claim. And his answer is stupid beyond belief worthy of arfcom: because of how it looks.

 

[308pirate]

LOL, I'm a fan of that HK G36C shape and that's how I kinda see the VHS-2/Hellion, a bullpup HK G36.

okaaayyyy...........so it's all about looks

Got it

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've long since grown out of buying guns I don't need based on cool factor, but if that was still my thing this would be high on the list. No reason in particular, it's just cool.

 

[Evintos]

okaaayyyy...........so it's all about looks

Got it

Definitely some miscommunication going on here. I thought you were quoting my portion of the post in reference to aesthetics. In terms of combat usage, as a bullpup it has more use in combat than an MDR (street cred reference). In terms use compared to Tavor and X95 - I'd argue the usage with IDF has been more about short duration police style actions in that region rather than sustained heavy combat usage. Other usage would more likely than not be concentrated in Central and South America mostly again with police style action against narco terrorists. Feel free to disagree with this one.

As for Steyr AUG - long service history but the design is starting to become dated and product improvement of the legacy platform has been limited. The most recent advancement in the design being the Lithgow/Thales F90 which although based off a legacy design has seen limited use due to the relative newness and limited production.

VHS-2 more modern, available for purchase, (F90 would've been available had Lithgow not change their minds due to politics). Similar service life as Tavor/X95 with potential of higher aftermarket support level. Usage in various conflict zones of varying intensity (low to high). Yeah I think it's better in more than just aesthetics but ya know, it's all about the looks .

 

[308pirate]

In terms of combat usage, as a bullpup it has more use in combat than an MDR (street cred reference). In terms use compared to Tavor and X95 - I'd argue the usage with IDF has been more about short duration police style actions in that region rather than sustained heavy combat usage. Other usage would more likely than not be concentrated in Central and South America mostly again with police style action against narco terrorists. Feel free to disagree with this one.

Those reasons are just as shallow. But you do you.

 

[Steel head]

okaaayyyy...........so it's all about looks

Got it

For those all important coffee table Gucci shots!

Have you learned nothing here?

 

[Longshot85]

Lol

If only there was a big brother 7.62 version....

I'm a nobody but like all said above and stated in all the videos blasting out...seems to have some legit street cred in some environments that can be hard on these types of platforms.

I don't have the experience most have on here but I have shot the following:

-Full Auto MP5
-Full Auto G36

-Tavor
-PS90
-KSG
-Vepr12 shortened barrel and folding stock

Out of all those....if I was spending my money to buy one......I would shorten and SBR a PS90 and put a can on the end (yes....sometimes they are finicky with cans).

The PS90 was UBER smooth, easy to shoot fast and very low recoil. Yes I fully realize it doesn't have as much ass behind it as 5.56......but even with a 16 inch barrel and A2 birdcage on the end .....it was just epic. I would do research but ideally I'd cut 4 inches of barrel off and put a 4-6 inch can on it.

I like to modify stuff A LOT ....and that 9lb trigger is enough to steer me away.

For the right people I think it's a fantastic option for those looking for a 5.56 bullpup.

Thumbs up to Springfield for making it happen. I gotta say.....Springfield has REALLY cranked out some nice offerings all across the board in the last couple years. The people working there who make decisions on what gets offered to us are on point

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Forgotten Weapeons did a bit on this.
I've never messed with a Bullpup, I know triggers leave alot to be desired.

Been thinking about something different like BRN 180 bit maybe the Hellion is something I'll look at.

Thoughts?

I have a BRN180 and an AUG. Both do something different and are worth owning. The VHS looks good and I'll probably buy one in a few years.

 

[GUNNER10]

How on earth can you say that?

I think it just be a matter of something looking kind of cool. IMO, I really don't think that there is a major difference between most rifles in a particular class. AR's, Modernized AR18's, Bullpups, or AK's within a class, its all pretty close, i still think I would lean towards an AUG,, but, the Hellion looks pretty cool.

 

[RUTGERS95]

The ergonomics of bullpubs are not appealing. Even specialized units who's military uses bullpups use AR format carbines.

Also, after having seen AR's, AK's, etc. have catastrophic failures, I'm uncomfortable with an action aside my face.

Right here

Ask yourself, what does this do better?

 

[Halfnutz]

Being in (IL) a non-SBR state, our options are braces which are somewhat lacking IMO.
A < 30inch bullpup gives another option where shorter is better, and without loss of velocity.

The Barrett M99 has gotten me over the fear of explosion next to my head...mostly.

 

[Mrgunsngear]

Being in (IL) a non-SBR state, our options are braces which are somewhat lacking IMO.
A < 30inch bullpup gives another option where shorter is better, and without loss of velocity.

The Barrett M99 has gotten me over the fear of explosion next to my head...mostly.

Unfortunately there's several states that have similarly stupid laws where this rifle fills a niche...

 

[buffalowinter]

I have lots of bullpups...AUG, Groza, Tavor, Hellion, and AR and AK conversions. Of these, the Tavor has the best trigger and the AUG has the worst.