Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
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Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no logical reason for a company that can produce <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> kind of weapon it desires in the US to "import" its evil components into the US. Unless it is an efficiency reason, maybe to meet an order deadline? or the need to use its manufactureing resources in the UK? My point is, after reading the post (again), it is still 95% about taxes that were skirted (for whatever reason) with 5% undefined fear. They know it all but choose to leave out the names of the undisclosed country that may or may not be an allied nation. This in my opinion was a very important point, the most important and would likly change my opinion if proved that the nation was hostile.
This accusation is boxed, packaged and pushed by the international community who think guns can be only used for evil and governments wanting their share. If innocent people were being killed by this companys actions the the authorities should be held accountable for letting it happen for the last 8 years.
I will still hold my opinion that they were stupid in their business practices. I sure you have a different opinion being from the UK, Savage is your evil guy anyway. </div></div>
If people are only going to read the @#$%^*& "media" accounts of what is going on with this situation, then naturally the facts and true issues at hand are going to be clouded (funny how the media does that to people). The media's job is to sell papers/subscriptions/increase ratings/etc. If they can report a story "factually" and yet still put a spin on it to get their "5% undefined fear" effect (your words...not mine), then they'll do it because IT SELLS. It is your job as the reader to read between the lines.
The indictment (all 45pgs of it) clearly sets out ALL of the issues truly at hand with Sabre, its ownership/management, and the allegations against the defendants of illegal conduct in violation of federal law.
There are zero, REPEAT ZERO, allegations/facts plead in the indictment relating to any sales or transactions by Sabre to any terrorist nation, "suspicious party", rogue third-world junta, etc. There are no facts whatsoever that Sabre was doing anything of the sort. Believe me when I tell you that if they had ANY sort of evidence suggesting that arms sales to the "baddies" was going on, they'd have charged them with it so fast their heads would have spun off because, like the media, USAs/AUSAs have agendas as well! If they have facts/evidence to support charges under the Patriot Act or other source of federal law to charge a US-based company, US citizens and a UK national of supporting/harboring terrorist acitivies, you can be your ass it would have been filed. That is just simply NOT the case here.
The "other" nation involved was FINLAND for heaven's sake and those issues dealt with Sabre's attempts to illegally IMPORT INTO THE US parts/materials for suppressor manufacturing that was to take place here in the US (for sale/use in US Govt contracts)!
What was being done, regardless of how people want to classify the action of Savage, et al., were a long, drawn-out series of stupid, greedy maneuvers designed intentionally to avoid compliance with US import/export laws that Savage deemed unfair/unjust/etc. in the name of making money, keeping US Gov't contracts, etc., etc. The indictment is full of direct quotes from communications both within and outside the company wherein Savage et al. were conspiring to fraudulently and illegally export firearms components from the US to the UK, and import components from Finland to the US, using various methods of "book-cooking", erroneously listing firearms components as other parts/etc. and with significantly reduced values on shipping manifests to avoid permitting/licensing requirements, and so on and so on.
As for the reputations of Savage et al., I don't know the man or his employees personally and am in no position to comment on their reputations other than what I have seen/read or heard from others, so I will hold judgment. HOWEVER, this isn't their first time of being in hot water for some highly questionable activities and this time...all evidence thus far points to them preparing for a royal ass ripping when the dust settles from their latest alleged criminal activities. </div></div>
I, for one, am hoping to see them beat all the charges.</div></div>
Erm,...so circumventing existing laws, risking your employees livelihood and defrauding the honest tax payers is ok???
Lets wait and see how this plays out shall we?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ORD</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is no logical reason for a company that can produce <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> kind of weapon it desires in the US to "import" its evil components into the US. Unless it is an efficiency reason, maybe to meet an order deadline? or the need to use its manufactureing resources in the UK? My point is, after reading the post (again), it is still 95% about taxes that were skirted (for whatever reason) with 5% undefined fear. They know it all but choose to leave out the names of the undisclosed country that may or may not be an allied nation. This in my opinion was a very important point, the most important and would likly change my opinion if proved that the nation was hostile.
This accusation is boxed, packaged and pushed by the international community who think guns can be only used for evil and governments wanting their share. If innocent people were being killed by this companys actions the the authorities should be held accountable for letting it happen for the last 8 years.
I will still hold my opinion that they were stupid in their business practices. I sure you have a different opinion being from the UK, Savage is your evil guy anyway. </div></div>
If people are only going to read the @#$%^*& "media" accounts of what is going on with this situation, then naturally the facts and true issues at hand are going to be clouded (funny how the media does that to people). The media's job is to sell papers/subscriptions/increase ratings/etc. If they can report a story "factually" and yet still put a spin on it to get their "5% undefined fear" effect (your words...not mine), then they'll do it because IT SELLS. It is your job as the reader to read between the lines.
The indictment (all 45pgs of it) clearly sets out ALL of the issues truly at hand with Sabre, its ownership/management, and the allegations against the defendants of illegal conduct in violation of federal law.
There are zero, REPEAT ZERO, allegations/facts plead in the indictment relating to any sales or transactions by Sabre to any terrorist nation, "suspicious party", rogue third-world junta, etc. There are no facts whatsoever that Sabre was doing anything of the sort. Believe me when I tell you that if they had ANY sort of evidence suggesting that arms sales to the "baddies" was going on, they'd have charged them with it so fast their heads would have spun off because, like the media, USAs/AUSAs have agendas as well! If they have facts/evidence to support charges under the Patriot Act or other source of federal law to charge a US-based company, US citizens and a UK national of supporting/harboring terrorist acitivies, you can be your ass it would have been filed. That is just simply NOT the case here.
The "other" nation involved was FINLAND for heaven's sake and those issues dealt with Sabre's attempts to illegally IMPORT INTO THE US parts/materials for suppressor manufacturing that was to take place here in the US (for sale/use in US Govt contracts)!
What was being done, regardless of how people want to classify the action of Savage, et al., were a long, drawn-out series of stupid, greedy maneuvers designed intentionally to avoid compliance with US import/export laws that Savage deemed unfair/unjust/etc. in the name of making money, keeping US Gov't contracts, etc., etc. The indictment is full of direct quotes from communications both within and outside the company wherein Savage et al. were conspiring to fraudulently and illegally export firearms components from the US to the UK, and import components from Finland to the US, using various methods of "book-cooking", erroneously listing firearms components as other parts/etc. and with significantly reduced values on shipping manifests to avoid permitting/licensing requirements, and so on and so on.
As for the reputations of Savage et al., I don't know the man or his employees personally and am in no position to comment on their reputations other than what I have seen/read or heard from others, so I will hold judgment. HOWEVER, this isn't their first time of being in hot water for some highly questionable activities and this time...all evidence thus far points to them preparing for a royal ass ripping when the dust settles from their latest alleged criminal activities. </div></div>
I, for one, am hoping to see them beat all the charges.</div></div>
Erm,...so circumventing existing laws, risking your employees livelihood and defrauding the honest tax payers is ok???
Lets wait and see how this plays out shall we?
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
Although I don't think it ought to be illegal to import suppressor parts from Finland, it's also not a very good idea for a US govt arms contractor to ignore laws relating to trafficking in arms.
Although I don't think it ought to be illegal to import suppressor parts from Finland, it's also not a very good idea for a US govt arms contractor to ignore laws relating to trafficking in arms.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although I don't think it ought to be illegal to import suppressor parts from Finland, it's also not a very good idea for a US govt arms contractor to ignore laws relating to trafficking in arms. </div></div> Well said and I think that is the entire point here. Selective obedience of laws is unacceptable regardless of the viewpoint on that law, and especially the case with a manufacturer receiving government contracts.
If they're found guilty of circumventing the laws, then so be it and I hope they're sentenced accordingly. If they're innocent then it will be a shame that their name was drug through the mud like this, but either way it will be up to the courts to decide.
ITAR is a bitch to deal with in the security industry having a minimum six month lead time on any licensed item, including when you're contracted directly to the USG and purchasing items that are USG property, but that still doesn't exempt you from the laws. You deal with them, plan ahead and play by the book because nobody with a brain wants a 6x10 room to live in for the next 10+ years.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 500grains</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although I don't think it ought to be illegal to import suppressor parts from Finland, it's also not a very good idea for a US govt arms contractor to ignore laws relating to trafficking in arms. </div></div> Well said and I think that is the entire point here. Selective obedience of laws is unacceptable regardless of the viewpoint on that law, and especially the case with a manufacturer receiving government contracts.
If they're found guilty of circumventing the laws, then so be it and I hope they're sentenced accordingly. If they're innocent then it will be a shame that their name was drug through the mud like this, but either way it will be up to the courts to decide.
ITAR is a bitch to deal with in the security industry having a minimum six month lead time on any licensed item, including when you're contracted directly to the USG and purchasing items that are USG property, but that still doesn't exempt you from the laws. You deal with them, plan ahead and play by the book because nobody with a brain wants a 6x10 room to live in for the next 10+ years.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
Largely this sounds like a revenue issue. Nothing pisses off the Uncle more than not sharing with him.
They may have broken the laws, its unfortunate and it sucks for a company that had as good a reputatuon as they did for having quality stuff.
@Redmanss
I have to respectfully disagee with you on the laws viewpoint. The laws are getting so numerous and so convoluted that just about everyone breaks a law during their everyday life. Do you always use your turn signals when changing lanes? Never accidentally written a bad check? Had sex in a position other than missionary while in the service? My point is simply that if we keep heading down this path, willful disobedience is going to be the only option.
So, who loses this hand? The American taxpayer. We'll end up footing the bill for this prosecution debacle. Why debacle? It'll probably end up out of court with them paying fines but only after hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars have been wasted.
Largely this sounds like a revenue issue. Nothing pisses off the Uncle more than not sharing with him.
They may have broken the laws, its unfortunate and it sucks for a company that had as good a reputatuon as they did for having quality stuff.
@Redmanss
I have to respectfully disagee with you on the laws viewpoint. The laws are getting so numerous and so convoluted that just about everyone breaks a law during their everyday life. Do you always use your turn signals when changing lanes? Never accidentally written a bad check? Had sex in a position other than missionary while in the service? My point is simply that if we keep heading down this path, willful disobedience is going to be the only option.
So, who loses this hand? The American taxpayer. We'll end up footing the bill for this prosecution debacle. Why debacle? It'll probably end up out of court with them paying fines but only after hundreds of thousands of tax payer dollars have been wasted.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
I guess we'll see what happens. It is a shame that a good company is getting torn apart as they make fantastic products, but if they did break the law, they should be held accountable as should everybody else that breaks the law.
It seems to me that a lot of this, in my interpretation, is about taxes and revenue, but I'm not a fed. I believe that this will all work itself out and the guilty will be prosecuted if that is the case. I Think that a lot of the people that have posted are correct though and it will hurnot us little guys the most with the cost of paying for the process and the fallout afterwards.
I guess we'll see what happens. It is a shame that a good company is getting torn apart as they make fantastic products, but if they did break the law, they should be held accountable as should everybody else that breaks the law.
It seems to me that a lot of this, in my interpretation, is about taxes and revenue, but I'm not a fed. I believe that this will all work itself out and the guilty will be prosecuted if that is the case. I Think that a lot of the people that have posted are correct though and it will hurnot us little guys the most with the cost of paying for the process and the fallout afterwards.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
Damn Guy did it all wrong... Didn't he watch Lord of War?
Damn Guy did it all wrong... Didn't he watch Lord of War?
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
nw1911guy, I'm not saying that all laws are right, nor am I saying that I support them. I'm just saying that I abide by them. Off of this site I've been active in countering nonsense legislation from becoming law and also in supporting the modification or repeal of nonsense laws, including the ones in question here.
Always though I have a obligation to myself, my employees and employer, and to my family to wake up every morning and figure out how to go another day without getting anyone dead, fired or sent to jail. The answer to that is always "Do the right thing" and it's worked pretty well for me thus far. If the accused in this case are found guilty, then they failed miserably in that respect and I sympathize with the employees of this company and their families that it will likely effect in the future if that is the end result.
Willful disobedience may be fine and dandy when the only individual the consequences will effect is the offender, but in most instances that is never the case including my own. Blatant violation of ITAR in the business world is serious enough to cost anywhere from dozens to thousands of people their jobs because your company WILL lose its contract(s) as a result.
I will not debate or speculate on the intentions of the DoJ in this case. See two paragraphs above for my reason for that.
To answer your questions though: Always, once and I paid the price, and I plead the Fifth. It's good to be prior and not active.....
nw1911guy, I'm not saying that all laws are right, nor am I saying that I support them. I'm just saying that I abide by them. Off of this site I've been active in countering nonsense legislation from becoming law and also in supporting the modification or repeal of nonsense laws, including the ones in question here.
Always though I have a obligation to myself, my employees and employer, and to my family to wake up every morning and figure out how to go another day without getting anyone dead, fired or sent to jail. The answer to that is always "Do the right thing" and it's worked pretty well for me thus far. If the accused in this case are found guilty, then they failed miserably in that respect and I sympathize with the employees of this company and their families that it will likely effect in the future if that is the end result.
Willful disobedience may be fine and dandy when the only individual the consequences will effect is the offender, but in most instances that is never the case including my own. Blatant violation of ITAR in the business world is serious enough to cost anywhere from dozens to thousands of people their jobs because your company WILL lose its contract(s) as a result.
I will not debate or speculate on the intentions of the DoJ in this case. See two paragraphs above for my reason for that.
To answer your questions though: Always, once and I paid the price, and I plead the Fifth. It's good to be prior and not active.....
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nw1911guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@Redmanss
I have to respectfully disagee with you on the laws viewpoint. The laws are getting so numerous and so convoluted that just about everyone breaks a law during their everyday life. Do you always use your turn signals when changing lanes? Never accidentally written a bad check? Had sex in a position other than missionary while in the service? My point is simply that if we keep heading down this path, willful disobedience is going to be the only option.
</div></div>
I see your point, but also you need to look at it like this:
Not using your turn signal is in a COMPLETELY different ball park then what they are being accussed of. Agreed?
In it's simplest terms, YES, both are "breaking the law", but so is child molestation and jaywalking. Are they the "same"? Not hardly.
Look, Im not a legal expert by any means, and I know what you mean, about laws being written for everything, and hard to know what is what anymore.
I also know that some people get frustrated because of it, and pick and choose what law they will follow. But point is, this gun maker, had what probaly EVERY gun maker wants, A FREAKN CONTRACT WITH THE GOVT!
Now, IF, and I will say it again, IF they did what they are accused of, then shame on them. GREED is all it came down to, IF they did it. One more time for cheap seats, IF they did it.
And to me, THAT is where our World is going wrong, GREED. It's ALL about $$$, how much you make, how much you can spend, what you can buy, bigger car, bigger house, more toys, etc...MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY.
So sick of it man. No one want to just help others anymore. it's about what they can charge that person so they can make money. or take shortcuts and rip people off.
I know, getting off subject here, sorry. I just dont think you can compare doing what they are ACCUSED of to not putting your turn signal on. My .02
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nw1911guy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@Redmanss
I have to respectfully disagee with you on the laws viewpoint. The laws are getting so numerous and so convoluted that just about everyone breaks a law during their everyday life. Do you always use your turn signals when changing lanes? Never accidentally written a bad check? Had sex in a position other than missionary while in the service? My point is simply that if we keep heading down this path, willful disobedience is going to be the only option.
</div></div>
I see your point, but also you need to look at it like this:
Not using your turn signal is in a COMPLETELY different ball park then what they are being accussed of. Agreed?
In it's simplest terms, YES, both are "breaking the law", but so is child molestation and jaywalking. Are they the "same"? Not hardly.
Look, Im not a legal expert by any means, and I know what you mean, about laws being written for everything, and hard to know what is what anymore.
I also know that some people get frustrated because of it, and pick and choose what law they will follow. But point is, this gun maker, had what probaly EVERY gun maker wants, A FREAKN CONTRACT WITH THE GOVT!
Now, IF, and I will say it again, IF they did what they are accused of, then shame on them. GREED is all it came down to, IF they did it. One more time for cheap seats, IF they did it.
And to me, THAT is where our World is going wrong, GREED. It's ALL about $$$, how much you make, how much you can spend, what you can buy, bigger car, bigger house, more toys, etc...MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY.
So sick of it man. No one want to just help others anymore. it's about what they can charge that person so they can make money. or take shortcuts and rip people off.
I know, getting off subject here, sorry. I just dont think you can compare doing what they are ACCUSED of to not putting your turn signal on. My .02
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
The Lord of War from suburbia: After dramatic arrest, arms boss faces extradition to the U.S. over claims he smuggled weapons to Iraq
A British arms dealer who called himself the ‘Lord of War’ is facing extradition to the United States after he was dramatically seized near his £800,000 suburban home.
Officers from Scotland Yard’s elite firearms squad shot out the tyres of Guy Savage’s Mercedes and threw stun grenades in an early morning ambush.
Public-school educated Savage, 42, is accused of smuggling weapons to Iraq and the Middle East.
Gun-toting: Guy Savage shows off a weapon. Police seized a huge arsenal, including assault rifles, weapons components and ammunition, at his home
Later a huge arsenal of weapons, including assault rifles, weapons components and ammunition was found in a raid on the married father-of-two’s house in Pinner, North-West London, and at his business premises a few miles away in Northolt.
Last night sources said more than 500 ‘complete’ guns had been found. Four Americans are accused of being involved with Savage, owner of a company called Sabre Defence Industries, in a multi-million-pound racket to illegally export weapons in crates with false bottoms and forging shipping records.
His arrest has caused acute concern at the Home Office, after claims that he had acted as adviser to ministers on firearms policy.
Last night, a spokesman would only confirm that the Home Secretary, Theresa May, had ‘revoked’ a firearms authority on the advice of the Metropolitan Police.
An internal inquiry has begun into how Savage, who has a conviction from the mid-1990s for possessing and selling prohibited pump action and semi-automatic rifles, had been awarded a firearms certificate.
He is due to appear before City of Westminster magistrates this morning for the start of what promise to be lengthy extradition proceedings.
The family home: Savage's house in Pinner. He faces being jailed for up to 20 years and fined up to $1million on each of the more serious charges
The family home: Savage's house in Pinner. He faces being jailed for up to 20 years and fined up to $1million on each of the more serious charges
He has been indicted by a U.S. federal grand jury on charges relating to international firearms and trafficking violations. He faces being jailed for up to 20 years and fined up to $1million on each of the more serious charges.
The indictment alleges that Savage directed the illegal activities from his personal residences in the UK, as well as from a related company owned by him, Sabre Defence Industries LTD (SDI-UK), which is a licensed manufacturer, distributor and importer of firearms and firearms headquartered in the UK.
The U.S. indictment includes a number of revealing emails. Savage wrote to a Finnish arms company he deals with on July 25 2004: ‘This Iraq situation has companies banging on our door for M16s because we are the only supplier outside the U.S. since the State Department has a lump of granite up their a**** with exporting machine guns to anywhere.’
'He liked to call himself Lord of War after that Nicolas Cage film – that’s just how arrogant this guy was – but he was operating in North London'
A source close to the investigation
Last night a source close to the U.S. investigation told the Mail: ‘Savage was a brutal boss and he never ever took no for an answer. He had an ego that reached across the Atlantic and he thought he was untouchable.
‘He liked to call himself Lord of War after that Nicolas Cage film – that’s just how arrogant this guy was – but he was operating in North London and not some remote camp in Afghanistan.
‘There were up to several orders every month worth tens of thousands of pounds and this has been going on for almost a decade, so the chances are he is a very wealthy man.’
Savage, a former pupil of the £5,000 a term Highgate School in North London, was seized last Tuesday.
A neighbour, who asked not to be named, said: ‘At around 8.30am, I was looking out my window and Guy drove past in his Mercedes estate. The cars that were parked quickly blocked him off and officers jumped out and started shooting. They blew his tyres.
‘They threw four stun grenades and you could feel the vibrations in my house. They grabbed Guy from the car and pinned him to the ground. I heard him say, “I’m not resisting, don’t hurt me”.’
In 1996, Savage – who that year had blamed families of the Dunblane massacre for ruining his livelihood – won a controversial court fight to continue dealing in firearms. He caused outrage when he said the families’ ‘hysteria and blind fury’ had left him and other dealers broke.
He had been banned from possessing and trading in guns in April 1994 on the grounds he was a danger to the public. This came after a large cache of prohibited weapons was found at premises in St John’s Wood, North London.
He spent two years fighting the Metropolitan Police Commissioner’s decision to revoke his firearms licence. A judge ruled in his favour but criticised his remarks about Dunblane and even his own barrister said his client had an ‘unattractive’ personality.
This man was already a coNvicted felon and considered a danger to the public! He should NEVER have been allowed to trade in the USA or UK!!!!
The Lord of War from suburbia: After dramatic arrest, arms boss faces extradition to the U.S. over claims he smuggled weapons to Iraq
A British arms dealer who called himself the ‘Lord of War’ is facing extradition to the United States after he was dramatically seized near his £800,000 suburban home.
Officers from Scotland Yard’s elite firearms squad shot out the tyres of Guy Savage’s Mercedes and threw stun grenades in an early morning ambush.
Public-school educated Savage, 42, is accused of smuggling weapons to Iraq and the Middle East.
Gun-toting: Guy Savage shows off a weapon. Police seized a huge arsenal, including assault rifles, weapons components and ammunition, at his home
Later a huge arsenal of weapons, including assault rifles, weapons components and ammunition was found in a raid on the married father-of-two’s house in Pinner, North-West London, and at his business premises a few miles away in Northolt.
Last night sources said more than 500 ‘complete’ guns had been found. Four Americans are accused of being involved with Savage, owner of a company called Sabre Defence Industries, in a multi-million-pound racket to illegally export weapons in crates with false bottoms and forging shipping records.
His arrest has caused acute concern at the Home Office, after claims that he had acted as adviser to ministers on firearms policy.
Last night, a spokesman would only confirm that the Home Secretary, Theresa May, had ‘revoked’ a firearms authority on the advice of the Metropolitan Police.
An internal inquiry has begun into how Savage, who has a conviction from the mid-1990s for possessing and selling prohibited pump action and semi-automatic rifles, had been awarded a firearms certificate.
He is due to appear before City of Westminster magistrates this morning for the start of what promise to be lengthy extradition proceedings.
The family home: Savage's house in Pinner. He faces being jailed for up to 20 years and fined up to $1million on each of the more serious charges
The family home: Savage's house in Pinner. He faces being jailed for up to 20 years and fined up to $1million on each of the more serious charges
He has been indicted by a U.S. federal grand jury on charges relating to international firearms and trafficking violations. He faces being jailed for up to 20 years and fined up to $1million on each of the more serious charges.
The indictment alleges that Savage directed the illegal activities from his personal residences in the UK, as well as from a related company owned by him, Sabre Defence Industries LTD (SDI-UK), which is a licensed manufacturer, distributor and importer of firearms and firearms headquartered in the UK.
The U.S. indictment includes a number of revealing emails. Savage wrote to a Finnish arms company he deals with on July 25 2004: ‘This Iraq situation has companies banging on our door for M16s because we are the only supplier outside the U.S. since the State Department has a lump of granite up their a**** with exporting machine guns to anywhere.’
'He liked to call himself Lord of War after that Nicolas Cage film – that’s just how arrogant this guy was – but he was operating in North London'
A source close to the investigation
Last night a source close to the U.S. investigation told the Mail: ‘Savage was a brutal boss and he never ever took no for an answer. He had an ego that reached across the Atlantic and he thought he was untouchable.
‘He liked to call himself Lord of War after that Nicolas Cage film – that’s just how arrogant this guy was – but he was operating in North London and not some remote camp in Afghanistan.
‘There were up to several orders every month worth tens of thousands of pounds and this has been going on for almost a decade, so the chances are he is a very wealthy man.’
Savage, a former pupil of the £5,000 a term Highgate School in North London, was seized last Tuesday.
A neighbour, who asked not to be named, said: ‘At around 8.30am, I was looking out my window and Guy drove past in his Mercedes estate. The cars that were parked quickly blocked him off and officers jumped out and started shooting. They blew his tyres.
‘They threw four stun grenades and you could feel the vibrations in my house. They grabbed Guy from the car and pinned him to the ground. I heard him say, “I’m not resisting, don’t hurt me”.’
In 1996, Savage – who that year had blamed families of the Dunblane massacre for ruining his livelihood – won a controversial court fight to continue dealing in firearms. He caused outrage when he said the families’ ‘hysteria and blind fury’ had left him and other dealers broke.
He had been banned from possessing and trading in guns in April 1994 on the grounds he was a danger to the public. This came after a large cache of prohibited weapons was found at premises in St John’s Wood, North London.
He spent two years fighting the Metropolitan Police Commissioner’s decision to revoke his firearms licence. A judge ruled in his favour but criticised his remarks about Dunblane and even his own barrister said his client had an ‘unattractive’ personality.
This man was already a coNvicted felon and considered a danger to the public! He should NEVER have been allowed to trade in the USA or UK!!!!
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Falar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
ORD said:
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
The receiver of revenues receives taxes,...when others don't pay you end up as a tax payer paying more. That was the point.
The receiver of revenues receives taxes,...when others don't pay you end up as a tax payer paying more. That was the point.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This man was already a coNvicted felon and considered a danger to the public! He should NEVER have been allowed to trade in the USA or UK!!!!
</div></div>
Wow. just read that. Again, not saying he is guilty, as a jury will decide that. But, you do have to wonder, how in teh hell he was able to get a contract from the US Govt, if he was already a convicted felon!?!?!?!?!?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
This man was already a coNvicted felon and considered a danger to the public! He should NEVER have been allowed to trade in the USA or UK!!!!
</div></div>
Wow. just read that. Again, not saying he is guilty, as a jury will decide that. But, you do have to wonder, how in teh hell he was able to get a contract from the US Govt, if he was already a convicted felon!?!?!?!?!?
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
He got bailed yesterday,....
If the Govts on both sides of the Atlantic fucked up then he will not only walk, he may get compensated!
The US Govt has literally over 100 major Contractors in IRAQ/AFGHAN all of whom have defauded staggering amounts yet they continue to use them.
Go figure why???
He got bailed yesterday,....
If the Govts on both sides of the Atlantic fucked up then he will not only walk, he may get compensated!
The US Govt has literally over 100 major Contractors in IRAQ/AFGHAN all of whom have defauded staggering amounts yet they continue to use them.
Go figure why???
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He got bailed yesterday,....
If the Govts on both sides of the Atlantic fucked up then he will not only walk, he may get compensated!
The US Govt has literally over 100 major Contractors in IRAQ/AFGHAN all of whom have defauded staggering amounts yet they continue to use them.
Go figure why??? </div></div>
Because war is ugly, and if you havent heard it is very hard to get right tools to those that have been tasked and need them. I can think of a hundred reasons the forces at hand would need a company like Sabre. I dont know what point your trying to make. Sounds like your pissed because we are at war. You are assuming that everything is black and white.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He got bailed yesterday,....
If the Govts on both sides of the Atlantic fucked up then he will not only walk, he may get compensated!
The US Govt has literally over 100 major Contractors in IRAQ/AFGHAN all of whom have defauded staggering amounts yet they continue to use them.
Go figure why??? </div></div>
Because war is ugly, and if you havent heard it is very hard to get right tools to those that have been tasked and need them. I can think of a hundred reasons the forces at hand would need a company like Sabre. I dont know what point your trying to make. Sounds like your pissed because we are at war. You are assuming that everything is black and white.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He got bailed yesterday,....
If the Govts on both sides of the Atlantic fucked up then he will not only walk, he may get compensated!
The US Govt has literally over 100 major Contractors in IRAQ/AFGHAN all of whom have defauded staggering amounts yet they continue to use them.
Go figure why??? </div></div>
Because war is ugly, and if you havent heard it is very hard to get right tools to those that have been tasked and need them. I can think of a hundred reasons the forces at hand would need a company like Sabre. I dont know what point your trying to make. Sounds like your pissed because we are at war. You are assuming that everything is black and white. </div></div>
wtf? Its pretty simple to understand. Contractor fraud costs the taxpayer staggering amounts. That lost money directly reflects on what can be spent to get equipment into front line troop hands, rather than lining the pockets of various crooked companies CEO's.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He got bailed yesterday,....
If the Govts on both sides of the Atlantic fucked up then he will not only walk, he may get compensated!
The US Govt has literally over 100 major Contractors in IRAQ/AFGHAN all of whom have defauded staggering amounts yet they continue to use them.
Go figure why??? </div></div>
Because war is ugly, and if you havent heard it is very hard to get right tools to those that have been tasked and need them. I can think of a hundred reasons the forces at hand would need a company like Sabre. I dont know what point your trying to make. Sounds like your pissed because we are at war. You are assuming that everything is black and white. </div></div>
wtf? Its pretty simple to understand. Contractor fraud costs the taxpayer staggering amounts. That lost money directly reflects on what can be spent to get equipment into front line troop hands, rather than lining the pockets of various crooked companies CEO's.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Emouse</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Emouse said:
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
Its interesting how much grey area can be found when it suits.
Now I love me a big honking slice of war everytime! However the defense industry has been ripping the American Taxpayer off in any of the wars you wish to name, from the Cold war, the Contras and those enormous no bids in Iraq.
As sad as it maybe, many defense contractors have been fined for 'problems' pay up, admit no guilt, and carry on.
Part of the problem is by reducing the size of the E-Vile dotgov, any oversight into E. coli hamburger, bad eggs, lead painted toys and fraudulent contractor billing is sadly lacking.
Another part is if the megacorp defense juggernauts are barred from bidding there wouldnt be much of a domestic production base. To big to fail isnt just in the banking industry.
Final problem is the few government watchdogs are more interested in where they will land once the gubment gig is over. Isnt it amazing the number of retired officers on the liason teams between the military/congress/ and defense contractors looking to keep programs alive?
There is a war on is no excuse! War profiteering used to have a bad stink attached, these days it seems to be excuseable as a simple cost of war.
Very sad some think that way.
Its interesting how much grey area can be found when it suits.
Now I love me a big honking slice of war everytime! However the defense industry has been ripping the American Taxpayer off in any of the wars you wish to name, from the Cold war, the Contras and those enormous no bids in Iraq.
As sad as it maybe, many defense contractors have been fined for 'problems' pay up, admit no guilt, and carry on.
Part of the problem is by reducing the size of the E-Vile dotgov, any oversight into E. coli hamburger, bad eggs, lead painted toys and fraudulent contractor billing is sadly lacking.
Another part is if the megacorp defense juggernauts are barred from bidding there wouldnt be much of a domestic production base. To big to fail isnt just in the banking industry.
Final problem is the few government watchdogs are more interested in where they will land once the gubment gig is over. Isnt it amazing the number of retired officers on the liason teams between the military/congress/ and defense contractors looking to keep programs alive?
There is a war on is no excuse! War profiteering used to have a bad stink attached, these days it seems to be excuseable as a simple cost of war.
Very sad some think that way.
Re: SABRE DEFENCE, CEO arrested along with 5 employees
The British papers have been too kind to the owner of Sabre, Guy Savage - they are calling him the "Lord of War". Apparently that's the name he gave himself!
Interesting read!
[url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357014/The-Lord-War-suburbia-After-dramatic-arrest-arms-boss-faces-extradition-U-S-claims-smuggled-weapons-Iraq.html"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...apons-Iraq.html[/url]
The British papers have been too kind to the owner of Sabre, Guy Savage - they are calling him the "Lord of War". Apparently that's the name he gave himself!
Interesting read!
[url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1357014/The-Lord-War-suburbia-After-dramatic-arrest-arms-boss-faces-extradition-U-S-claims-smuggled-weapons-Iraq.html"]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...apons-Iraq.html[/url]
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