Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

[socalsheepdog]

Rob S has removed "The Chart". I sent a couple buddies there today who are looking to get an AR and the chart has been removed as a tab. All the explanations are still there but the chart that told us what standards manufactures use to builds their ARs is gone.

From Rob S on M4carbine.net

<span style="font-style: italic">I'm tired of feeding people fish only to have them bitch that they don't like the taste.

So I took away the fish, and left the rod, reel, line, bait, and a map to all the good fishing holes. People can catch their own damn fish.</span>

Sucks that people have to fuck up a good thing. I am starting to hate the internet.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

Damn! I would never have known what I missed if I hadn't read this.
I thought ar15.com was the end all site for the M4 folks.

 

[socalsheepdog]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

I don't spend much time at M4carbine.net but if I have an AR question, I go there to research. There is lots of debate about the chart but it was a good tool to lead people to a better informed buying decision.

Here is what the chart looked like if you had never seen it before.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3238128&postcount=79

 

[ORD]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

I am sure that there are plenty of folks out there who have copied/pirated/saved or otherwise held on to the damn chart for dear life and that it will resurface somewhere (likely Calguns, BARFCOM, etc.) and that someone will continue to maintain it for public view/review/loving/loathing.

As for Rob's stand on the issue...I personally applaud him for it!!! The same $#!T happens here and all over the Internet every single day which only proves the old saying that: "You can lead a horse to water..."


ETA: Oops...missed your last post on it being up at Calguns (and probably elsewhere) already. Proved my own point!

 

[socalsheepdog]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

I agree, but as the industry evolved, Rob was pretty good about updating the chart. I am sure it was a lot of thankless work and a huge source of headache for him at times.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

If it weren't for the internet many people would be perfectly happy with the perfectly servicable and accurate AR's that just sit in their safe anyway.

I especially like it that California forums argue about what are the best fighting carbines but they are now limited to top feeders with very limited access to load quickly.
Do these forum members know as much about their legislators and their voting as they do about who stakes their gas keys "properly"??

Not to be a dick, but it really doesn't make a sad day for anyone that can decide for themselves what they need out of a firearm.

 

[Desert-Rat]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

I think whats makes this sad is that people get so caught up in charts like this that tell which manufacturer pressure tests their barrels etc ... Really? Don't they all? and a twist chart? C'mon guys & gals....

Folks need to get more time on the trigger instead of the catalog page corner and we'd have a lot more great shooters out there!

I understand the need for research and fact finding, but we (yes, self admittedly a head case from time to time...)all spend too much time in the books instead of the scope.... All those guys who wrote those books were shooting not googling!

 

[steelcomp]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

Give a man a fish, feed him for a meal. Teach a man to fish and feed him for life. Too damn many people in this world expecting others to give away for nothing, what others have worked so hard for.
JMO

 

[Falar]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Desert-Rat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think whats makes this sad is that people get so caught up in charts like this that tell which manufacturer pressure tests their barrels etc ... Really? Don't they all? and a twist chart? C'mon guys & gals....

Folks need to get more time on the trigger instead of the catalog page corner and we'd have a lot more great shooters out there!

I understand the need for research and fact finding, but we (yes, self admittedly a head case from time to time...)all spend too much time in the books instead of the scope.... All those guys who wrote those books were shooting not googling! </div></div>

With all the prices being so similar now with the multitude of various AR makers it was a nice tool to make sure you got the most for your money. Believe it or not there IS a big difference in quality between the "worst" ARs and the "best" and sometimes the dollar difference is less than you think.

 

[Hasgun Willtravel]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

OMG!! How will we ever pick the proper AR now that there is not a flow chart to follow??!! We are all fucked.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I'm tired of feeding people fish only to have them bitch that they don't like the taste.
</div></div>


I sure hope Lindy / LL (others) never get upset about all the free info they (and others) have graciously explained to myself and others over the years. I don't like the taste of density altitude and some days I think the particular wang of understanding wind makes me want to puke; but I am confident that Lindy / LL (and others) will some how understand that when information is provided on the net it is done as a genuine act and once it leaves their fingers - pfft who cares - they tried. Things that are truly correct are demonstrable and repeatable. Opinions need to be defended.





Good luck

 

[bustin]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OMG!! How will we ever pick the proper AR now that there is not a flow chart to follow??!! We are all fucked. </div></div>

LOL

 

[BCP]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it weren't for the internet many people would be perfectly happy with the perfectly servicable and accurate AR's that just sit in their safe anyway.</div></div>

Among the guys I shoot with I was the first to ever get an AR-type rifle so whenever one of them has problems with theirs or wants to buy some odd part I usually get the call. Awhile back one of them called me up saying his bolt carrier needed to be staked. When he brought it over the carrier was staked fine, it was just staked with what looked like a small punch on 3 sides rather than the heavy 2-sided staking you see on other brands. Anyways it turned out he saw this chart on calguns, got 'educated' by some clown and now he was scared to death that the rifle he's put ~3k rounds through was about to fall apart on him.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

Yup. As far as staking, go to Young Manufacturing's site and read up on why they do not stake theirs.

 

[bowslngr]

Re: Sad day for future AR buyers. M4 Chart gone.

Glad to see it gone. The overwhelming majority of folks that referenced it did not have the mental capacity to put it in proper perspective.