Long story, short is my seating die was oily from being sprayed with Ballistol and I need to know if it is safe to tumble my loaded rounds to remove a light oil film?
- Thread starter One_Man
- Start date
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
bad ju-ju................
tumbling starts to abraid the coating on the powder and turns it to much finer ....STUFF and thus changes the burn rate, which leads to way-the-fuck higher pressures and blown primers and shmootz blown in your face....maybe even to include chunks of metal.......wear your glasses and a cup
bad ju-ju................
tumbling starts to abraid the coating on the powder and turns it to much finer ....STUFF and thus changes the burn rate, which leads to way-the-fuck higher pressures and blown primers and shmootz blown in your face....maybe even to include chunks of metal.......wear your glasses and a cup
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
if you do make sure there is no women,children or pets anywhere near and make sure to videotape it.
if you do make sure there is no women,children or pets anywhere near and make sure to videotape it.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Someone better let Black Hills know. They tumble their ammo after loading.
Someone better let Black Hills know. They tumble their ammo after loading.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
WOW, I'm glad I read this. I found a crapload of good brass out on the range a week or so ago after our local PD ran a carbine course on our range. I probably picked up about 300 peices of once fired LC brass just laying there. In addition, there were probably and additional 50 rounds of unfired stuff in amongst the brass that I assumed they left there after doing clearing drills. None had primer strikes, so they weren't misfires. Anyway, it was all pretty dirty after laying in the desert for a day or two - so I threw them all in the tumbler, empties and loaded rounds. They all came out shiney and I was looking forward to blasting with the free factory rounds. It never occured to me the shaking would break down the powder inside. Yikes, I guess I'll get the bullet puller out.....
WOW, I'm glad I read this. I found a crapload of good brass out on the range a week or so ago after our local PD ran a carbine course on our range. I probably picked up about 300 peices of once fired LC brass just laying there. In addition, there were probably and additional 50 rounds of unfired stuff in amongst the brass that I assumed they left there after doing clearing drills. None had primer strikes, so they weren't misfires. Anyway, it was all pretty dirty after laying in the desert for a day or two - so I threw them all in the tumbler, empties and loaded rounds. They all came out shiney and I was looking forward to blasting with the free factory rounds. It never occured to me the shaking would break down the powder inside. Yikes, I guess I'll get the bullet puller out.....
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Couple reasons why not to tumble loaded ammo
it could off, this would be real bad
gunpowder is coated to control burnrates, tumbling may cause the coating to break down, this could be bad for the gun, and/or end user
it could cause the seating depth to change if there not enough neck tension
I know there's more, just wipe the oil off with a rag, maybe use some denatured alcohol to cut the oil
Couple reasons why not to tumble loaded ammo
it could off, this would be real bad
gunpowder is coated to control burnrates, tumbling may cause the coating to break down, this could be bad for the gun, and/or end user
it could cause the seating depth to change if there not enough neck tension
I know there's more, just wipe the oil off with a rag, maybe use some denatured alcohol to cut the oil
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
....if anyone thinks this is a joke.....go tumble some .50BMG rounds......and go shoot'em.....if you're able , report back to us how that went .
....if anyone thinks this is a joke.....go tumble some .50BMG rounds......and go shoot'em.....if you're able , report back to us how that went .
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I had a conversation about this with my buddy that worked at the Small Cal Lab at Aberdeen. This is part of a response he sent me in a email! I have the documentation from Aberdeen regarding the vibration testing that they did. However, it word 2003 and I am unable to open it.
His Email:
Generally speaking, small arms ammo is vibrated in a sequence that includes drop tests as well as vibration. It is done twice, once at low temperature (generally -60F) and once at high temperature (generally +155F). Some of the sample is vibrated as bare loose cartridges and some in the lowest level of shipping container (this is almost always the steel ammo can but without the wooden box overwrap). The ammo is fired for velocity and cyclic rate after the test. The question of dispersion varies from test to test; I always preferred to fire a sample for dispersion but lack of proper weapons, small sample sizes, etc., sometimes made it not possible.
The test is actually quite severe, but there is rarely a problem with the cartridge itself. Most problems are damage to the packing, cartridge movement in links, cartridges falling out of stripper clips, etc. This leads to typical circular finger pointing with the cartridge guy blaming the links, the link guy blaming the box, and the box guy blaming the cartridge. A good example is the plastic 200 round magazine for the SAW; there is an interaction between the cartridges, links, plastic magazine, and steel ammo box. A Soldier, of course, just wants to be able to grab a magazine and have it work.
Explosive and/or fuzed ammo is a different story but is treated much the same.
Terry
I had a conversation about this with my buddy that worked at the Small Cal Lab at Aberdeen. This is part of a response he sent me in a email! I have the documentation from Aberdeen regarding the vibration testing that they did. However, it word 2003 and I am unable to open it.
His Email:
Generally speaking, small arms ammo is vibrated in a sequence that includes drop tests as well as vibration. It is done twice, once at low temperature (generally -60F) and once at high temperature (generally +155F). Some of the sample is vibrated as bare loose cartridges and some in the lowest level of shipping container (this is almost always the steel ammo can but without the wooden box overwrap). The ammo is fired for velocity and cyclic rate after the test. The question of dispersion varies from test to test; I always preferred to fire a sample for dispersion but lack of proper weapons, small sample sizes, etc., sometimes made it not possible.
The test is actually quite severe, but there is rarely a problem with the cartridge itself. Most problems are damage to the packing, cartridge movement in links, cartridges falling out of stripper clips, etc. This leads to typical circular finger pointing with the cartridge guy blaming the links, the link guy blaming the box, and the box guy blaming the cartridge. A good example is the plastic 200 round magazine for the SAW; there is an interaction between the cartridges, links, plastic magazine, and steel ammo box. A Soldier, of course, just wants to be able to grab a magazine and have it work.
Explosive and/or fuzed ammo is a different story but is treated much the same.
Terry
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW, I'm glad I read this. I found a crapload of good brass out on the range a week or so ago after our local PD ran a carbine course on our range. I probably picked up about 300 peices of once fired LC brass just laying there. In addition, there were probably and additional 50 rounds of unfired stuff in amongst the brass that I assumed they left there after doing clearing drills. None had primer strikes, so they weren't misfires. Anyway, it was all pretty dirty after laying in the desert for a day or two - so I threw them all in the tumbler, empties and loaded rounds. They all came out shiney and I was looking forward to blasting with the free factory rounds. It never occured to me the shaking would break down the powder inside. Yikes, I guess I'll get the bullet puller out..... </div></div>
Feel free to shoot them. Its a myth
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ReaperDriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WOW, I'm glad I read this. I found a crapload of good brass out on the range a week or so ago after our local PD ran a carbine course on our range. I probably picked up about 300 peices of once fired LC brass just laying there. In addition, there were probably and additional 50 rounds of unfired stuff in amongst the brass that I assumed they left there after doing clearing drills. None had primer strikes, so they weren't misfires. Anyway, it was all pretty dirty after laying in the desert for a day or two - so I threw them all in the tumbler, empties and loaded rounds. They all came out shiney and I was looking forward to blasting with the free factory rounds. It never occured to me the shaking would break down the powder inside. Yikes, I guess I'll get the bullet puller out..... </div></div>
Feel free to shoot them. Its a myth
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Has anybody actually done it?? What happened?
Has anybody actually done it?? What happened?
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
i tumble all of my loaded ammo to remove the sizing lube.
i read of a test conducted on another board where a guy tumbled some loaded ammo for a full week and the ammo chronographed the same as the controll group that was not tumbled at all.
i shoot only handloads and tumble every batch of finished ammo. i use clean untreated corncob for this. generally 15 or 20 mintues in enough, but i don't worry too much if it goes longer.
i tumble all of my loaded ammo to remove the sizing lube.
i read of a test conducted on another board where a guy tumbled some loaded ammo for a full week and the ammo chronographed the same as the controll group that was not tumbled at all.
i shoot only handloads and tumble every batch of finished ammo. i use clean untreated corncob for this. generally 15 or 20 mintues in enough, but i don't worry too much if it goes longer.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I don't tumble loaded ammo. I just don't. I figure Acetone (AKA Nail Polish Remover) will remove anything objectionable.
Greg
I don't tumble loaded ammo. I just don't. I figure Acetone (AKA Nail Polish Remover) will remove anything objectionable.
Greg
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Old myth. Tumble away, factory ammo is tumbled after its made.
Old myth. Tumble away, factory ammo is tumbled after its made.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....if anyone thinks this is a joke.....go tumble some .50BMG rounds......and go shoot'em.....if you're able , report back to us how that went .</div></div>
sometimes i quote myself
to make a point,,,,,there is a difference oh so subtle, but like i said before in an earlier post....wear glasses and a cup.....keyboard champions will get you nowhere with their wisdom once the primer is struck....tumbling ammo gains you nothing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">....if anyone thinks this is a joke.....go tumble some .50BMG rounds......and go shoot'em.....if you're able , report back to us how that went .</div></div>
sometimes i quote myself
to make a point,,,,,there is a difference oh so subtle, but like i said before in an earlier post....wear glasses and a cup.....keyboard champions will get you nowhere with their wisdom once the primer is struck....tumbling ammo gains you nothing.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
The powder are using has been transported thousands of miles being jiggled the whole way. An extra 10-15 minutes is not going to make a difference.
The powder are using has been transported thousands of miles being jiggled the whole way. An extra 10-15 minutes is not going to make a difference.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Just use Lee Case Lube. Water soluable, wipe or leave on. GTG.
I won't tumble loaded ammo on principle.
You ask that question and get a thousand answers - 50% for and 50% against - you make up your own mind.
Yes the manufacturers tumble their ammo, but most likely in a padded room away from personnel plus they are insured for this anyway, are you?
Just use Lee Case Lube. Water soluable, wipe or leave on. GTG.
I won't tumble loaded ammo on principle.
You ask that question and get a thousand answers - 50% for and 50% against - you make up your own mind.
Yes the manufacturers tumble their ammo, but most likely in a padded room away from personnel plus they are insured for this anyway, are you?
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.
I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone better let Black Hills know. They tumble their ammo after loading. </div></div>
All of 'em tumble. Talking vibratory type cleaners only, any danger is from static.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone better let Black Hills know. They tumble their ammo after loading. </div></div>
All of 'em tumble. Talking vibratory type cleaners only, any danger is from static.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.</div></div>
....what can i tell you...you lead a charmed life....but have not witnessed M4's getting blown the fuck apart because of the wrong powder in hot local temperatures and seeing the shooters walk around with blackened faces.....or custom JP's coming apart because of non-crimped hand loads.......yeah charmed life and little respect for your hide and the welfare of others about you.....or No institutional memory.......all it takes is to see one basket-weaved barrel, then you dummy up.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.</div></div>
....what can i tell you...you lead a charmed life....but have not witnessed M4's getting blown the fuck apart because of the wrong powder in hot local temperatures and seeing the shooters walk around with blackened faces.....or custom JP's coming apart because of non-crimped hand loads.......yeah charmed life and little respect for your hide and the welfare of others about you.....or No institutional memory.......all it takes is to see one basket-weaved barrel, then you dummy up.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the manufacturers tumble their ammo, but most likely in a padded room away from personnel plus they are insured for this anyway, are you?</div></div>
Ever seen a loose round fire? I would be amazed if it perforated the tumbler bowl.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes the manufacturers tumble their ammo, but most likely in a padded room away from personnel plus they are insured for this anyway, are you?</div></div>
Ever seen a loose round fire? I would be amazed if it perforated the tumbler bowl.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I have spoken with several of the powder manufactures about tumbling loaded ammo. Their advice was that tumbling ammo long enough to get any case lube off was not going to degrade the powder at all. They said if you were to tumble it for several days it may effect it some. And factory ammo is also tumbled before packaging.
I tumble my 223 ammo after loading on a Dillon to get the case lube off. I only need about 30-45 minutes worth of tumbling to do this. I have also tumbled some old 40 ammo to get the cases cleaned.
However, I don't think I would tumble 50 cal ammo, but this would be common sense, I think. They are too heavy and could impact the primer. But anything else smaller I would tumble.
So, you are doing no damage to the powder inside the case when cleaning the case lube off.
I have spoken with several of the powder manufactures about tumbling loaded ammo. Their advice was that tumbling ammo long enough to get any case lube off was not going to degrade the powder at all. They said if you were to tumble it for several days it may effect it some. And factory ammo is also tumbled before packaging.
I tumble my 223 ammo after loading on a Dillon to get the case lube off. I only need about 30-45 minutes worth of tumbling to do this. I have also tumbled some old 40 ammo to get the cases cleaned.
However, I don't think I would tumble 50 cal ammo, but this would be common sense, I think. They are too heavy and could impact the primer. But anything else smaller I would tumble.
So, you are doing no damage to the powder inside the case when cleaning the case lube off.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.</div></div>
....what can i tell you...you lead a charmed life....but have not witnessed M4's getting blown the fuck apart because of the wrong powder in hot local temperatures and seeing the shooters walk around with blackened faces.....or custom JP's coming apart because of non-crimped hand loads.......yeah charmed life and little respect for your hide and the welfare of others about you.....or No institutional memory.......all it takes is to see one basket-weaved barrel, then you dummy up. </div></div>
Wrong powder, not crimped, etc. Not tumbled ammo.
Even if you could "degrade the powder deterrent coating" by tumbling, the few minutes required to removing the sizing lube would do nothing.
Again, in review, most major ammunition manufacturers tumble live rounds, the military conducted a vibratory test and could not damage the powder, many people here and on arfcom tumble live rounds, and there hasn't been one anecdotal report of high pressures or damaged firearms as a result of tumbled ammo.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.</div></div>
....what can i tell you...you lead a charmed life....but have not witnessed M4's getting blown the fuck apart because of the wrong powder in hot local temperatures and seeing the shooters walk around with blackened faces.....or custom JP's coming apart because of non-crimped hand loads.......yeah charmed life and little respect for your hide and the welfare of others about you.....or No institutional memory.......all it takes is to see one basket-weaved barrel, then you dummy up. </div></div>
Wrong powder, not crimped, etc. Not tumbled ammo.
Even if you could "degrade the powder deterrent coating" by tumbling, the few minutes required to removing the sizing lube would do nothing.
Again, in review, most major ammunition manufacturers tumble live rounds, the military conducted a vibratory test and could not damage the powder, many people here and on arfcom tumble live rounds, and there hasn't been one anecdotal report of high pressures or damaged firearms as a result of tumbled ammo.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
i'm not one who tempts fate.......i don't want to be in that place....to put it in pilot parlance....'to run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time"......why?
i'm not one who tempts fate.......i don't want to be in that place....to put it in pilot parlance....'to run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time"......why?
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Does anyone have solid proof that tumbling live ammo does effect the powder? I have never seen it.
We need to have this on Mythbusters.
Does anyone have solid proof that tumbling live ammo does effect the powder? I have never seen it.
We need to have this on Mythbusters.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm not one who tempts fate.......i don't want to be in that place....to put it in pilot parlance....'to run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time"......why? </div></div>
There is never anything wrong with erring on the side of caution.
I wouldn't do it for expetended periods of time, but just to get a little lube off should be fine.
If the ammo is loaded with SMKs, though, I wouldn't tumble them. The little pieces of tumbler media can get into the hollow point, and are a pain to get out. I don't know if that effects accuracy, but it can't help.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i'm not one who tempts fate.......i don't want to be in that place....to put it in pilot parlance....'to run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time"......why? </div></div>
There is never anything wrong with erring on the side of caution.
I wouldn't do it for expetended periods of time, but just to get a little lube off should be fine.
If the ammo is loaded with SMKs, though, I wouldn't tumble them. The little pieces of tumbler media can get into the hollow point, and are a pain to get out. I don't know if that effects accuracy, but it can't help.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.</div></div>
....what can i tell you...you lead a charmed life....but have not witnessed M4's getting blown the fuck apart because of the wrong powder in hot local temperatures and seeing the shooters walk around with blackened faces.....or custom JP's coming apart because of non-crimped hand loads.......yeah charmed life and little respect for your hide and the welfare of others about you.....or No institutional memory.......all it takes is to see one basket-weaved barrel, then you dummy up. </div></div>
Obviously you know everything, despite everyone elses experience and the evidence to the contrary.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was given several thousand rounds of linked 5.56mm, it was winchester Q3131 I believe. After delinking, there was some corrosion where the links rested on the brass. I tumbled all of this ammo for a min of 4 hrs. It shot just fine and I am here to tell you about it. Like I said, many ammunition manufacturers including black hills tumble their loaded ammo.
For the record, I used a vibratory case cleaner and its not something I normally do. Just when surplus ammo needs a clean up.</div></div>
....what can i tell you...you lead a charmed life....but have not witnessed M4's getting blown the fuck apart because of the wrong powder in hot local temperatures and seeing the shooters walk around with blackened faces.....or custom JP's coming apart because of non-crimped hand loads.......yeah charmed life and little respect for your hide and the welfare of others about you.....or No institutional memory.......all it takes is to see one basket-weaved barrel, then you dummy up. </div></div>
Obviously you know everything, despite everyone elses experience and the evidence to the contrary.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have spoken with several of the powder manufactures about tumbling loaded ammo. Their advice was that tumbling ammo long enough to get any case lube off was not going to degrade the powder at all. They said if you were to tumble it for several days it may effect it some. And factory ammo is also tumbled before packaging.
I tumble my 223 ammo after loading on a Dillon to get the case lube off. I only need about 30-45 minutes worth of tumbling to do this. I have also tumbled some old 40 ammo to get the cases cleaned.
However, I don't think I would tumble 50 cal ammo, but this would be common sense, I think. They are too heavy and could impact the primer. But anything else smaller I would tumble.
So, you are doing no damage to the powder inside the case when cleaning the case lube off. </div></div>
i tumble my loaded ammo sometimes. never had a problem and did the same thing chad did as in calling manufacturers of powder. i use some comon sense as i don'y tuble for hours or days on end. tumble as need and go. chrono'd the same and all.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have spoken with several of the powder manufactures about tumbling loaded ammo. Their advice was that tumbling ammo long enough to get any case lube off was not going to degrade the powder at all. They said if you were to tumble it for several days it may effect it some. And factory ammo is also tumbled before packaging.
I tumble my 223 ammo after loading on a Dillon to get the case lube off. I only need about 30-45 minutes worth of tumbling to do this. I have also tumbled some old 40 ammo to get the cases cleaned.
However, I don't think I would tumble 50 cal ammo, but this would be common sense, I think. They are too heavy and could impact the primer. But anything else smaller I would tumble.
So, you are doing no damage to the powder inside the case when cleaning the case lube off. </div></div>
i tumble my loaded ammo sometimes. never had a problem and did the same thing chad did as in calling manufacturers of powder. i use some comon sense as i don'y tuble for hours or days on end. tumble as need and go. chrono'd the same and all.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
There are no winners or losers here. If you think it is safe to tumble live ammo, then do it. If you think it is not, then don't.
For myself, I have never found any good reason to tumble live ammo. If I had ammo that was corroded, I throw it away. Ammo is cheap, compared to say: bodily injury, my home, my rifle, et al. If I am over-cautious, and bought into a urban myth, I've wasted nothing but a little time, and/or some brass or ammo.
If my brass needs cleaning, I place the fired case in my vibratory case cleaner with the fired primer in it.
I then lube and deprime. I wipe off any lube off with a paper towel.
In short, do what makes you happy. And if the law of unintended consequences bites you on the arse; well stuff happens.
YMMV,
Bob
There are no winners or losers here. If you think it is safe to tumble live ammo, then do it. If you think it is not, then don't.
For myself, I have never found any good reason to tumble live ammo. If I had ammo that was corroded, I throw it away. Ammo is cheap, compared to say: bodily injury, my home, my rifle, et al. If I am over-cautious, and bought into a urban myth, I've wasted nothing but a little time, and/or some brass or ammo.
If my brass needs cleaning, I place the fired case in my vibratory case cleaner with the fired primer in it.
I then lube and deprime. I wipe off any lube off with a paper towel.
In short, do what makes you happy. And if the law of unintended consequences bites you on the arse; well stuff happens.
YMMV,
Bob
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Factory ammo is tumbled AFTER loading.
I've been doing it after reading this post: Tumbling loaded ammo THE TEST without any negative results.
My tests show ammo tumbled for 5 hours chronograph the same as that of ammo not tumbled. (Hand loads -308, 223, 45 ACP and 40 S&W. Factory loads - Radway Green 223 and Port 308)
I use corn cob media with a little carnuba wax added for protection from oxidation in a Dillon CV-2001 Vibratory Case Cleaner. After tumbling for 30 minutes I handle with cotton gloves to keep skin oils away from ammo. Keeps ammo pristine for long term storage. I have some 45 ACP that I loaded 10 years ago stored in ammo cans and it has nice brown spots where I touched the brass while loading. I'm confident my current method will keep stored ammo in much better condition long term.
Do your own tests. Build confidence in your own methods.
You are responsible for your own safety. If you feel uncomfortable tumbling loaded ammo, don't do it.
Factory ammo is tumbled AFTER loading.
I've been doing it after reading this post: Tumbling loaded ammo THE TEST without any negative results.
My tests show ammo tumbled for 5 hours chronograph the same as that of ammo not tumbled. (Hand loads -308, 223, 45 ACP and 40 S&W. Factory loads - Radway Green 223 and Port 308)
I use corn cob media with a little carnuba wax added for protection from oxidation in a Dillon CV-2001 Vibratory Case Cleaner. After tumbling for 30 minutes I handle with cotton gloves to keep skin oils away from ammo. Keeps ammo pristine for long term storage. I have some 45 ACP that I loaded 10 years ago stored in ammo cans and it has nice brown spots where I touched the brass while loading. I'm confident my current method will keep stored ammo in much better condition long term.
Do your own tests. Build confidence in your own methods.
You are responsible for your own safety. If you feel uncomfortable tumbling loaded ammo, don't do it.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone better let Black Hills know. They tumble their ammo after loading. </div></div>
All of 'em tumble. Talking vibratory type cleaners only, any danger is from static.</div></div>
Fabric softener dryer sheet added to the tumbler media eliminates the static issue.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock63</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone better let Black Hills know. They tumble their ammo after loading. </div></div>
All of 'em tumble. Talking vibratory type cleaners only, any danger is from static.</div></div>
Fabric softener dryer sheet added to the tumbler media eliminates the static issue.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you do make sure there is no women,children or pets anywhere near and make sure to videotape it. </div></div>
Hehehe.
The guy on that test seems only to have thrown in 12 rounds...This sounds like one of those "safe than sorry" things.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you do make sure there is no women,children or pets anywhere near and make sure to videotape it. </div></div>
Hehehe.
The guy on that test seems only to have thrown in 12 rounds...This sounds like one of those "safe than sorry" things.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I won't do it.
I won't do it.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
i'll bet money that EVERY factory tumbles their loaded ammo.
but i'd hate to squelch the drama here.... talk about keyboard champions lol.
every round i have shot for years has been tumbled. and i shoot more than most.
i'll bet money that EVERY factory tumbles their loaded ammo.
but i'd hate to squelch the drama here.... talk about keyboard champions lol.
every round i have shot for years has been tumbled. and i shoot more than most.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I tumble every 223 and 308 round I hand load. I run it for about 15 to 20 minutes to give a final cleaning. Never a problem
I tumble every 223 and 308 round I hand load. I run it for about 15 to 20 minutes to give a final cleaning. Never a problem
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
in a simpler statement
"I do not tumble loaded ammo to ensure I am not beaking down the powder from its cylindrical form, this may cause a different burn rate and performance"
Bill
in a simpler statement
"I do not tumble loaded ammo to ensure I am not beaking down the powder from its cylindrical form, this may cause a different burn rate and performance"
Bill
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I have tumbled every round I have loaded for the past 10-12 years. Everything from 9x19 to very warm 38 Super to 17 Mach IV to 308 to 338 Lapua to 50 BMG.
In the late 90s I was trying to earn a GM rating in USPSA. I shot over 40K rounds that year and the other years were not far from 40K.
I have tumbled ammo overnight and compared/chronoed/accuracy tested it to non-tumbled ammo. No change.
I can still count to 10 using both my hands. If I put my hands in my pockets, I can count to 10 1/2.
I have tumbled every round I have loaded for the past 10-12 years. Everything from 9x19 to very warm 38 Super to 17 Mach IV to 308 to 338 Lapua to 50 BMG.
In the late 90s I was trying to earn a GM rating in USPSA. I shot over 40K rounds that year and the other years were not far from 40K.
I have tumbled ammo overnight and compared/chronoed/accuracy tested it to non-tumbled ammo. No change.
I can still count to 10 using both my hands. If I put my hands in my pockets, I can count to 10 1/2.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in a simpler statement
"I do not tumble loaded ammo to ensure I am not beaking down the powder from its cylindrical form, this may cause a different burn rate and performance"
Bill </div></div>
Tests show powder in cylindrical form does not break down at all when tumbled in loaded rounds after several DAYS of tumbling. Thus 30 minutes or a few hours is not a issue.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bill Stoffels</div><div class="ubbcode-body">in a simpler statement
"I do not tumble loaded ammo to ensure I am not beaking down the powder from its cylindrical form, this may cause a different burn rate and performance"
Bill </div></div>
Tests show powder in cylindrical form does not break down at all when tumbled in loaded rounds after several DAYS of tumbling. Thus 30 minutes or a few hours is not a issue.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
In one of my company trips to Scotland in '98 I had the opportunity to play at St. Andrews or shoot in their Fullbore Championship at Blair Atholl. I chose shooting. A gentleman named Charles Young loaned me his Musgrave TR and he provided the ammo as well.
We set up a date the weekend before match to get some 200 yard zeros at their local range, Ponclair. When I showed up at his residence he proudly showed me his loading operation since he supplies some of the ammo to the local shooters. All looked normal; Dillon 1050, VV 140 powder, Berger LTBs, except for the small cement mixer and the greaser. The cement mixer to clean the loaded ammo after the 1050s and the greaser to put a ring of Moly grease at the junction of the case neck and the projectile. No kidding the shooters put that glob of grease before loading it in the chamber and shoot.
Fast forward to the 200 yard range. My friend Charles handed me the rifle and ammo and instructed me how user the greaser while a couple of Scottish gentlemen watched. I may do some crazy stuff, but I flat out refused to shoot the ammo that was tumbled in a cement mixer and with a glob of grease smeared on the neck/bullet junction until he shot a string while I stood back a few feet. He finally convinced to give it a try. I actually had no option either use his gear of play golf, so it was a no brainer.
Well, the rifle did not blow up, the brass/primer did not exhibit any over pressure problem, and the rifle/ammo shot exceptionally well.
On match day, people were lined up buying Charles' cement mixer tumbled ammo, and they have previously bought from him knowing that his loaded ammo was tumbled clean in a cement mixer. I guess those belly shooters in Scotland do not know any better.
BTW, his rifle with the tumbled ammo shot the highest score across a 2 day match that stretched from 300 to 1000 yards.
I am still not convinced; I do not tumble any of my loaded ammo...
In one of my company trips to Scotland in '98 I had the opportunity to play at St. Andrews or shoot in their Fullbore Championship at Blair Atholl. I chose shooting. A gentleman named Charles Young loaned me his Musgrave TR and he provided the ammo as well.
We set up a date the weekend before match to get some 200 yard zeros at their local range, Ponclair. When I showed up at his residence he proudly showed me his loading operation since he supplies some of the ammo to the local shooters. All looked normal; Dillon 1050, VV 140 powder, Berger LTBs, except for the small cement mixer and the greaser. The cement mixer to clean the loaded ammo after the 1050s and the greaser to put a ring of Moly grease at the junction of the case neck and the projectile. No kidding the shooters put that glob of grease before loading it in the chamber and shoot.
Fast forward to the 200 yard range. My friend Charles handed me the rifle and ammo and instructed me how user the greaser while a couple of Scottish gentlemen watched. I may do some crazy stuff, but I flat out refused to shoot the ammo that was tumbled in a cement mixer and with a glob of grease smeared on the neck/bullet junction until he shot a string while I stood back a few feet. He finally convinced to give it a try. I actually had no option either use his gear of play golf, so it was a no brainer.
Well, the rifle did not blow up, the brass/primer did not exhibit any over pressure problem, and the rifle/ammo shot exceptionally well.
On match day, people were lined up buying Charles' cement mixer tumbled ammo, and they have previously bought from him knowing that his loaded ammo was tumbled clean in a cement mixer. I guess those belly shooters in Scotland do not know any better.
BTW, his rifle with the tumbled ammo shot the highest score across a 2 day match that stretched from 300 to 1000 yards.
I am still not convinced; I do not tumble any of my loaded ammo...
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
So I guess we can conclude that the results of the "extended field trial" over here in Scotland is that nasty things do not happen?
We Scots may do many daft things but a spate of blown rifles would have put Charles out of business....
Lube on the neck? Why, lube the barrel for the next round? Must be a Central Scotland thing, we don't do that on the North Beach and I am not starting now
Andy
So I guess we can conclude that the results of the "extended field trial" over here in Scotland is that nasty things do not happen?
We Scots may do many daft things but a spate of blown rifles would have put Charles out of business....
Lube on the neck? Why, lube the barrel for the next round? Must be a Central Scotland thing, we don't do that on the North Beach and I am not starting now
Andy
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
I don't do what I don't have to do, and I don't mind doing a little bit of elbow work if it's called for.
There's little I can accomplish by tumbling loaded ammo that I can't accomplish in some other, less controversial way. And usually quicker, too.
Contaminants can be wiped off with a cloth dampened with either Alcohol or Acetone. If that won't get it off it's earned its right to stay. If I still don't like it, I'll break down the cartridge, get more drastic, and start over.
Corrosion can be removed with steel wool. If that won't work; I consider the ammo beyond redemption, break it down, and recycle what components are salvageable.
The sleeping dragon's tail is not just lying there waiting for some intrepid soul to pick it up and start twisting.
I figure if somebody wants to tumble their ammo, there are all these nice folks here who will stand behind him.
Maybe far behind...
Your call...
I don't do what I don't have to do, and I don't mind doing a little bit of elbow work if it's called for.
There's little I can accomplish by tumbling loaded ammo that I can't accomplish in some other, less controversial way. And usually quicker, too.
Contaminants can be wiped off with a cloth dampened with either Alcohol or Acetone. If that won't get it off it's earned its right to stay. If I still don't like it, I'll break down the cartridge, get more drastic, and start over.
Corrosion can be removed with steel wool. If that won't work; I consider the ammo beyond redemption, break it down, and recycle what components are salvageable.
The sleeping dragon's tail is not just lying there waiting for some intrepid soul to pick it up and start twisting.
I figure if somebody wants to tumble their ammo, there are all these nice folks here who will stand behind him.
Maybe far behind...
Your call...
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Greg,
In doing a un-scientific look at all the posts, I noticed the younger the reloader, the more likely they are to tumble loaded ammo.
Us old farts (I'll be 60 next year)are certainly more conservative, when it comes to our reloading practices. Maybe were just Luddites, and just too old to change our ways.
Or just maybe our unwillingness to allow our firearms to "self-disassemble themselves" has made us jaded to progress...
I don't know. I'm all for progress, but tumbling loaded ammo leaves me with a chill. Maybe I'll just break out my shawl, and place a nip of some good bourbon in my coffee, and contemplate this process some more.
Bob
Greg,
In doing a un-scientific look at all the posts, I noticed the younger the reloader, the more likely they are to tumble loaded ammo.
Us old farts (I'll be 60 next year)are certainly more conservative, when it comes to our reloading practices. Maybe were just Luddites, and just too old to change our ways.
Or just maybe our unwillingness to allow our firearms to "self-disassemble themselves" has made us jaded to progress...
I don't know. I'm all for progress, but tumbling loaded ammo leaves me with a chill. Maybe I'll just break out my shawl, and place a nip of some good bourbon in my coffee, and contemplate this process some more.
Bob
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Us old farts (I'll be 60 next year)are certainly more conservative, when it comes to our reloading practices. Maybe were just Luddites, and just too old to change our ways.</div></div>
Good point. When I picked up my first manual I recall reading a warning about tumbling loaded rounds. Supposed danger was (as mentioned above) breaking down the powder composition. Don't recall seeing that statement for a while.
Anyone have a manual from the mid-70s or earlier?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Us old farts (I'll be 60 next year)are certainly more conservative, when it comes to our reloading practices. Maybe were just Luddites, and just too old to change our ways.</div></div>
Good point. When I picked up my first manual I recall reading a warning about tumbling loaded rounds. Supposed danger was (as mentioned above) breaking down the powder composition. Don't recall seeing that statement for a while.
Anyone have a manual from the mid-70s or earlier?
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
For those that think tumbling is bad, do you honestly think they ship powder in vibration proof trucks? I put at least 20K a year on my truck driving cross country with a trailer, and every interstate beats the hell out of my rig at some point in time. Louisian being the worst!
30 minutes in my tumbler is a lot less abusive than the trip from the powder plant to the retail store. I guarantee that stuff gets shaken all over the place in the back of the truck.
For those that think tumbling is bad, do you honestly think they ship powder in vibration proof trucks? I put at least 20K a year on my truck driving cross country with a trailer, and every interstate beats the hell out of my rig at some point in time. Louisian being the worst!
30 minutes in my tumbler is a lot less abusive than the trip from the powder plant to the retail store. I guarantee that stuff gets shaken all over the place in the back of the truck.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
Hey does this question get asked here about once a year ??? hell might as well add this annual event.
I Luv a clean reloaded Case that grips the Chamber wall 100% when fired. I regularly tumble fresh reloads in walnut to remove case lube. The only loads I Do Not tumble are reloads with Coated Bullets as not to tamper with the bullet lube. Those cases I just wipe-off with Alcohol on a rag. & No way does it harm accuracy and is not dangerous.
Quote, ( eddieNFL ) ... "<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Ever seen a loose round fire ? I would be amazed if it perforated the tumbler bowl</span></span>.".
I got to backup his statement and agree 100% . from personal experience It will Not.
A live round 'Loose' with no way to hold pressure ( chambered ) that does go off. Does very little but blow the primmer out and the bullet will not even penetrate plastic, Damn near all the pressure shoots-out the primmer pocket hole when power is ignited in a caped case.
* Plus* . think oft the impact Bullet pullers that are used every day for people reloading. There is a reason there is a hole in the top of the cap when you screw it on to hold down the 'Live Round' in the o-ring holder with Primer pointed Up.
I personally have had a .264 wm go off in one While holding it and all it did was smoke up the room and scare the shit out of me when it popped. The bullet did not harm the plastic holder/container. I could barely even feel it move in my hand when it went off also. Mostly just Noise and powder smoke. I have also thrown live .45 acp into hot burning wood stoves also and the bullets can hardly even bop the cast metal sides when they go off.
.
Hey does this question get asked here about once a year ??? hell might as well add this annual event.
I Luv a clean reloaded Case that grips the Chamber wall 100% when fired. I regularly tumble fresh reloads in walnut to remove case lube. The only loads I Do Not tumble are reloads with Coated Bullets as not to tamper with the bullet lube. Those cases I just wipe-off with Alcohol on a rag. & No way does it harm accuracy and is not dangerous.
Quote, ( eddieNFL ) ... "<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Ever seen a loose round fire ? I would be amazed if it perforated the tumbler bowl</span></span>.".
I got to backup his statement and agree 100% . from personal experience It will Not.
A live round 'Loose' with no way to hold pressure ( chambered ) that does go off. Does very little but blow the primmer out and the bullet will not even penetrate plastic, Damn near all the pressure shoots-out the primmer pocket hole when power is ignited in a caped case.
* Plus* . think oft the impact Bullet pullers that are used every day for people reloading. There is a reason there is a hole in the top of the cap when you screw it on to hold down the 'Live Round' in the o-ring holder with Primer pointed Up.
I personally have had a .264 wm go off in one While holding it and all it did was smoke up the room and scare the shit out of me when it popped. The bullet did not harm the plastic holder/container. I could barely even feel it move in my hand when it went off also. Mostly just Noise and powder smoke. I have also thrown live .45 acp into hot burning wood stoves also and the bullets can hardly even bop the cast metal sides when they go off.
.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey does this question get asked here about once a year ??? </div></div>
More like every few months.
I've seen cases split when rounds popped off. Caught a couple pieces of brass frag in the leg, once. Nothing serious. Happened a few inches away. We had a couple of incidents of 20MM rounds popping off during gunship up/downloads. No injuries (other than stained underwear). Pick up the HEI projectile and press on.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey does this question get asked here about once a year ??? </div></div>
More like every few months.
I've seen cases split when rounds popped off. Caught a couple pieces of brass frag in the leg, once. Nothing serious. Happened a few inches away. We had a couple of incidents of 20MM rounds popping off during gunship up/downloads. No injuries (other than stained underwear). Pick up the HEI projectile and press on.
Re: Safe to tumble loaded ammo?
i was a firefighter for a while here, and pretty much every house in this state has ammo in it. ammo cooking off diddn't bother me. the primers just bounce off the turnouts.
a loaded gun in a fire did bother me.
i was a firefighter for a while here, and pretty much every house in this state has ammo in it. ammo cooking off diddn't bother me. the primers just bounce off the turnouts.
a loaded gun in a fire did bother me.
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