Suppressors Sandman S POI Shift This Time...All Fixed

[opus56]

Hey everyone,

I recently got my Sandman S and am using it on a couple of different rifles using their keymount brake on both rifles. On my 224 Grendel (AR15 platform) the POI shift with suppressor is what I would say is very normal, a .3 mil shift. But on my AR10 (.308), the shift is 8 mils right and 3 mils up. With that much change I figured there must be something else going on, like maybe scope or scope mount...but the optics are all good.

Anyhow, I put the Area 419 brake back on which I've had on the rifle since I built it, rezeroed, and the rifle shot as expected. Then I put the keymount brake on again, rezeroed, and the rifle shot as expected. But as soon as I put on the Sandman, the POI shift is huge and it's not consistent either. It's not like it prints 1/2 MOA groups at 8 mils right and 3 mils up. It won't shoot even a 3 MOA group. No evidence of a baffle strike. Everything looks normal.

The AR10 has a Lothar Walther KA profile 20" barrel and it's been a consistent 1/2 MOA shooter ever since I assembled the rifle. Could I have a bad keymount brake?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Zak Smith]

Most likely there is something wrong with the rifle threads and only the length of the suppressor exposes it. I would recommend against shooting it more with a 8+ mil shift until it's figured out

 

[opus56]

Besides checking the barrel threads, it sounds like it could also be an issue w/ the spacers DA provides with their keymount brakes?

 

[Pvt.Donut]

How is your Keymount mounted to the 308? You're using the supplied shims right and not a crush washer or something?

 

[opus56]

How is your Keymount mounted to the 308? You're using the supplied shims right and not a crush washer or something?

Yes, I used the Dead Air shim kit. I also contacted Dead Air and they are sending me another keymount brake to try. Along with that I'm going to use a section of 19/64" drill rod to see how the suppressor lines up w/ the bore. If I don't get the results I'm looking for, I'll pull the barrel and have the thread concentricity checked.

 

[opus56]

Got the 19/64" rod today and the suppressor is definitely not concentric to the bore. Once I get the new keymount brake, I'll take a look again. I'm hoping it's the mount and not the barrel...but I guess we'll see.

 

[opus56]

Update...

Got the new keymount brake from Dead Air, tried it and still got the same misalignment. Fortunately for me, Dead Air has an office in UT, so I paid them a visit. They took the silencer and test mounted it on several rifles they had there, used their own alignment rod and found that there was an issue with the silencer. Right then they packaged it up and shipped it to their manufacturing facility to get it fixed. I was able to chat with Mike Pappas and his guys at their office. They are a bunch of good dudes and didn't hesitate one second to get me taken care of. Once the silencer is fixed, they'll test fire it and get it back to me.

Just wanted to give everyone an update and say thanks to Mike and his guys for getting this sorted out for me...great customer service from a great company and great bunch of guys.

Edit: One more cool thing regarding their support, even though the can itself had the issue, they let me keep the replacement keymount brake they sent me for free to test. Guess I need to build another rifle.

 

[opus56]

One last update. I received my Sandman S back from Dead Air after being repaired. I was able to take it out last night to test it with my .308 AR10 and .224 Grendel AR15. I'm happy to say everything is working as expected. The POI shift on the .308 was what I would expect, about .3 mils down, and it was about the same on the .224 Grendel. Both rifles shot great and now I can get back to tuning the handloads when shooting suppressed.

I'll also mention I added their E-Brake to the Sandman S and I'm very pleased w/ the recoil / muzzle flip reduction it provides. Going from an Area419 Hellfire brake on the .308 to just the Sandman was definitely an increase in felt recoil, but with the E-Brake, it's definitely better, but still not as good as just the Hellfire.

Thanks to Rodney and Mike at Dead Air for getting my Sandman S sorted out. Great guys and great customer support. I also ordered a Sandman K before their price increase took place at the beginning of April. It'll be fun to see how the two compare side by side.

The target is 8 shots with the .308 @ 100 yds, 3 w/ just the can and 5 with the E-Brake added.

 

[demolitionman]

^ Heck Yeh. Love it when a problem gets resolved so painlessly!

 

[gconnoyer]

Dead Air sounds like a shining example of customer service.

 

[Sierra770]

Solid. Do you have a pic of can and ebrake without mirage cover?

 

[opus56]

Solid. Do you have a pic of can and ebrake without mirage cover?

 

[Sierra770]

Thanks. I'll pick one up.

 

[chrismartin]

The larger diameter Nomad E-Brake on the Sandman is nice because it'll keep the mirage/silencer cover from sliding forward.

 

[opus56]

The larger diameter Nomad E-Brake on the Sandman is nice because it'll keep the mirage/silencer cover from sliding forward.

Exactly...it's a good set-up w/ the Cole-Tac cover...or any other flavor of cover.

 

[ThrowLead]

Thanks for sharing the positive experience, good to hear considering I recently ordered a Nomad!

 

[Gtscotty]

@opus56 Do you see any difference in POI between the can with the E-Brake and without?

 

[opus56]

@opus56 Do you see any difference in POI between the can with the E-Brake and without?

Not on my .308. The picture of the target above is 8 shots...3 with just the can and 5 with the E-Brake. The E-Brake is quite light, so it's not adding much at all to the overall weight of the can.

 

[awpk03s]

Thanks for the feedback and pics of the Sandman and E Brake.
I have a Sandman-S in ATF jail now, was considering whether or not to add the Nomad brake or wait for the dedicated Sandman diameter one (which they announced some time ago) but I like the functionality of the larger one with the cover...

 

[VSki]

That’s outstanding to hear about their customer service. Nice job catching it before a baffle strike.

 

[Ugly_Duck]

Tagging for later

 

[Ugly_Duck]

Have a Sandman S that seems a little finiky