has anyone had trouble with accuracy after installing sas 5.56 can. poi shift was very dramatic +/- 20". thanks for any help
Suppressors sas accuracy
- Thread starter dferg77
- Start date
Re: sas accuracy
POI shift was +/- 20" at 25 yards or 800 yards? One is most likely a baffle strike while the other is probably okay.
Not being a dick but "better questions solicit better answers".
The details matter with this stuff.
POI shift was +/- 20" at 25 yards or 800 yards? One is most likely a baffle strike while the other is probably okay.
Not being a dick but "better questions solicit better answers".
The details matter with this stuff.
Re: sas accuracy
sorry poi shift at 50 yards
sorry poi shift at 50 yards
Re: sas accuracy
Doesn't sound good. I'd be real hesitant about shooting it again. The first thing I'd do is look into the muzzle end of the can (not attached to rifle
) and look for baffle strikes or show of grazers (light strikes). I know because I have watched my can fly downrange before. It was a sad, sad day.
If that's not apparent I would take it to a smith, I guess either one kind've warrants that action if your sure its so drastic.
Doesn't sound good. I'd be real hesitant about shooting it again. The first thing I'd do is look into the muzzle end of the can (not attached to rifle
If that's not apparent I would take it to a smith, I guess either one kind've warrants that action if your sure its so drastic.
Re: sas accuracy
thats what i was afraid of. just got back to the house and looked in it with a flashlight.
shows some odd marks and a nick on the end cap. thanks for the help
thats what i was afraid of. just got back to the house and looked in it with a flashlight.
Re: sas accuracy
i have seen thread jobs on factory barrels that were not plumb, leading to bullet strikes on cans
i have seen thread jobs on factory barrels that were not plumb, leading to bullet strikes on cans
Re: sas accuracy
If thats the case is it possible to "fix" the threads without recutting as it is at 16" already
If thats the case is it possible to "fix" the threads without recutting as it is at 16" already
Re: sas accuracy
Get in touch with Tim at SAS, I just talked to him last week about putting a can on an AK that I'm sure doesn't have concentric threads. I'm sure he will get you fixed up. His solution to mine was to screw on an adapter, and then thread the adapter concentric to the bore.
ETA: SBR is a great option, too!
Get in touch with Tim at SAS, I just talked to him last week about putting a can on an AK that I'm sure doesn't have concentric threads. I'm sure he will get you fixed up. His solution to mine was to screw on an adapter, and then thread the adapter concentric to the bore.
ETA: SBR is a great option, too!
Re: sas accuracy
First can, First day is it all right to cry?
First can, First day is it all right to cry?
Re: sas accuracy
red how did you get a hold of him? I have tried several times to talk to him about a 30 cal can, with no luck
red how did you get a hold of him? I have tried several times to talk to him about a 30 cal can, with no luck
Re: sas accuracy
It is very hard to get hold of him, he's extremely busy right now building cans and is working on the communications problem. Send an email to [email protected] , if you don't get a response in a couple of days shoot me a PM. I'm just getting started on a .30 can from him, if you haven't seen one, they're LIGHT!
It is very hard to get hold of him, he's extremely busy right now building cans and is working on the communications problem. Send an email to [email protected] , if you don't get a response in a couple of days shoot me a PM. I'm just getting started on a .30 can from him, if you haven't seen one, they're LIGHT!
Re: sas accuracy
Thanks
Thanks
Re: sas accuracy
tag
tag
Re: sas accuracy
what is typical shift?
what is typical shift?
Re: sas accuracy
Up to a couple of MOA.
Up to a couple of MOA.
Re: sas accuracy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have seen thread jobs on factory barrels that were not plumb, leading to bullet strikes on cans </div></div>
My guess.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have seen thread jobs on factory barrels that were not plumb, leading to bullet strikes on cans </div></div>
My guess.
Re: sas accuracy
probably what it was. The barrel is a white oak armament barrel
guess i figured that it would be right.
probably what it was. The barrel is a white oak armament barrel
guess i figured that it would be right.
Re: sas accuracy
Most of the time, the POI shift is from a harmonics problem.
My GAP Howa shifted 0 with my first SAS can. Same can on my
GAP Rem shifts 3 in high 3/4 in right at 100 every time. Tim is shortening my barrel about 3/8 in a re-threading.
Most of the time, the POI shift is from a harmonics problem.
My GAP Howa shifted 0 with my first SAS can. Same can on my
GAP Rem shifts 3 in high 3/4 in right at 100 every time. Tim is shortening my barrel about 3/8 in a re-threading.
Re: sas accuracy
on a baffel strike wouldthe impact remain consistent? I was shooting my .22LR and it was 3-4 inches right after I put the can on. I would think a APA would be concentric.
on a baffel strike wouldthe impact remain consistent? I was shooting my .22LR and it was 3-4 inches right after I put the can on. I would think a APA would be concentric.
Re: sas accuracy
what do I need to look for if I am getting a baffel strike? I have Tim's Adaptors (brake/flash).
what do I need to look for if I am getting a baffel strike? I have Tim's Adaptors (brake/flash).
Re: sas accuracy
Chiller
what you look for is a linear mark on the exit hole of the can
Chiller
what you look for is a linear mark on the exit hole of the can
Re: sas accuracy
was just looking down both the cans and I do not see anything on the interior that seemed out of place. I did not see anything on the exit hole.
was just looking down both the cans and I do not see anything on the interior that seemed out of place. I did not see anything on the exit hole.
Re: sas accuracy
dferg77,
I would contact Tim and let him know of the issue.
I would bet good money on non concentric threads.
Boltripper gave a very good description of what to look for in a baffle strike.
I have several SAS cans. The biggest shift of all of them is 1 MOA to the right consistent every time.
My .338 Phoenix suppressor consistently has the difference between suppressed and non suppressed with rounds touching.
A couple of other shooters tried it out and had the same effect.
Bottom line, call Tim he should inspect the can and come up with a good solution for you.
I still like the SBR route!
PS...it's OK to cry, just do it in a manly way.
dferg77,
I would contact Tim and let him know of the issue.
I would bet good money on non concentric threads.
Boltripper gave a very good description of what to look for in a baffle strike.
I have several SAS cans. The biggest shift of all of them is 1 MOA to the right consistent every time.
My .338 Phoenix suppressor consistently has the difference between suppressed and non suppressed with rounds touching.
A couple of other shooters tried it out and had the same effect.
Bottom line, call Tim he should inspect the can and come up with a good solution for you.
I still like the SBR route!
PS...it's OK to cry, just do it in a manly way.
Re: sas accuracy
I spoke with dferg77 and it has been addressed. Bottom line is like any other manufacture, the weakest link is what they do not have control over. If you have any questions in regards to the "SAS" product line here on the hide, as addressed before, contact me directly, I will assist. Tim is a one man outfit, working in the machine shop does not allow for much phone time, and when it does, the products don't get complete/shipped, then customers get upset and want to talk more. Honestly he is extremely busy right now, catching up with a back log of muzzle attachments and cans from some big orders. Stand assured that he stands behind his products and customer support, so that is why I am here attempting to assist. Thanks again to all for your support.
I spoke with dferg77 and it has been addressed. Bottom line is like any other manufacture, the weakest link is what they do not have control over. If you have any questions in regards to the "SAS" product line here on the hide, as addressed before, contact me directly, I will assist. Tim is a one man outfit, working in the machine shop does not allow for much phone time, and when it does, the products don't get complete/shipped, then customers get upset and want to talk more. Honestly he is extremely busy right now, catching up with a back log of muzzle attachments and cans from some big orders. Stand assured that he stands behind his products and customer support, so that is why I am here attempting to assist. Thanks again to all for your support.
Re: sas accuracy
as stacey has stated the problem is being addressed. Rest assured that the problem is probably on my end as the product is outstanding. Original post was not a complaint towards tim or his product but looking for a simple solution to what i seen after a close inspection to be a bigger problem
as stacey has stated the problem is being addressed. Rest assured that the problem is probably on my end as the product is outstanding. Original post was not a complaint towards tim or his product but looking for a simple solution to what i seen after a close inspection to be a bigger problem
Re: sas accuracy
A box came in the mail today from SAS. The cans and adapters are very nicely machined. I will test fire as soon as time permits.
The camera angle used on the pics on SAS's website make the adapters appear larger than they are. They are actually very similar in size to a Badger Ordnance Thruster brake with a little extra on the back.
I will report on how these sound as soon as I can test a few of them.
Darin Reiss
FFL/SOT in Haysville, KS
A box came in the mail today from SAS. The cans and adapters are very nicely machined. I will test fire as soon as time permits.
The camera angle used on the pics on SAS's website make the adapters appear larger than they are. They are actually very similar in size to a Badger Ordnance Thruster brake with a little extra on the back.
I will report on how these sound as soon as I can test a few of them.
Darin Reiss
FFL/SOT in Haysville, KS
Re: sas accuracy
I skipped reading all the posts but.... my first adjustment would be subsonic ammo which would reduce jump reducing the hits if the jump is causing it. Then you could always go to a wider hole if you aren't going subsonic ammo. 20" hehehe must of sucked drasticly seeing that, then worse seeing the banging the bullet was doing. Good luck.
I skipped reading all the posts but.... my first adjustment would be subsonic ammo which would reduce jump reducing the hits if the jump is causing it. Then you could always go to a wider hole if you aren't going subsonic ammo. 20" hehehe must of sucked drasticly seeing that, then worse seeing the banging the bullet was doing. Good luck.
Re: sas accuracy
DarinR: good to see the update, enjoy and I am sure you are going to be more than happy with the performance and sound.
onechance: I spoke with you and Tim in regards to your issues. He is working to finish up your order, stated he would contact you upon completion and you guys would discuss at that time. As I stated, Tim is very busy trying to catch up and just keep up with all the orders and new in work items. If he does not call you, that is something you will need to discuss with him in person, not here, since there are always 2 sides to a STORY! Enough said.
DarinR: good to see the update, enjoy and I am sure you are going to be more than happy with the performance and sound.
onechance: I spoke with you and Tim in regards to your issues. He is working to finish up your order, stated he would contact you upon completion and you guys would discuss at that time. As I stated, Tim is very busy trying to catch up and just keep up with all the orders and new in work items. If he does not call you, that is something you will need to discuss with him in person, not here, since there are always 2 sides to a STORY! Enough said.
Re: sas accuracy
Its not always the barrel thread job to blame. My SAS can had 50 thousands runout and I had to send it back for warranty. Took 6 weeks, just got it back, I hope it shoots like its supposed too. In Tim's defense he took it back no questions asked and the can looks brand new.
Its not always the barrel thread job to blame. My SAS can had 50 thousands runout and I had to send it back for warranty. Took 6 weeks, just got it back, I hope it shoots like its supposed too. In Tim's defense he took it back no questions asked and the can looks brand new.
Re: sas accuracy
Good luck to those with baffle strike issues. I actually gave up trying to resolve my issues due to a complete lack of adequate response by both Tim and Stacey.
Good luck to those with baffle strike issues. I actually gave up trying to resolve my issues due to a complete lack of adequate response by both Tim and Stacey.
Re: sas accuracy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dferg77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">probably what it was. The barrel is a white oak armament barrel
guess i figured that it would be right.
</div></div>
hmm.. I think it may be the barrel manufacture. They dont have a clue about suppressors. I was going to buy a barrel from them, but definitly not after reading this.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dferg77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">probably what it was. The barrel is a white oak armament barrel
guess i figured that it would be right.
</div></div>
hmm.. I think it may be the barrel manufacture. They dont have a clue about suppressors. I was going to buy a barrel from them, but definitly not after reading this.
Re: sas accuracy
A friend came by last night that was at a tactical match in Virginia, I think, a couple of weeks ago and he had some guys with SAS cans shooting close to him and he was impressed with the suppression level.
Darin
A friend came by last night that was at a tactical match in Virginia, I think, a couple of weeks ago and he had some guys with SAS cans shooting close to him and he was impressed with the suppression level.
Darin
Re: sas accuracy
I tried to contact SAS and left voice mail. I watched a friend shoot his SAS on a 7mm Mag, and was impressed. That said, I have yet to have a return phone call, and have subsequently contacted a few class III dealers to get additional suggestions for a can. I did not see a SAS review on silencer research, and was just going off of my own observation and limited experience. This is my first can, and this thread makes me concerned about customer no-service.
I tried to contact SAS and left voice mail. I watched a friend shoot his SAS on a 7mm Mag, and was impressed. That said, I have yet to have a return phone call, and have subsequently contacted a few class III dealers to get additional suggestions for a can. I did not see a SAS review on silencer research, and was just going off of my own observation and limited experience. This is my first can, and this thread makes me concerned about customer no-service.
Re: sas accuracy
Handloader- try contacting Stacey Blankenship above.
Handloader- try contacting Stacey Blankenship above.
Re: sas accuracy
Why would someone buy from a company with questionable CS issues. There is nothing special about SAS cans that cannot be found elsewhere.
Why would someone buy from a company with questionable CS issues. There is nothing special about SAS cans that cannot be found elsewhere.
Re: sas accuracy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Handloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried to contact SAS and left voice mail. I watched a friend shoot his SAS on a 7mm Mag, and was impressed. That said, I have yet to have a return phone call, and have subsequently contacted a few class III dealers to get additional suggestions for a can. I did not see a SAS review on silencer research, and was just going off of my own observation and limited experience. This is my first can, and this thread makes me concerned about customer no-service. </div></div>
Rick, contact Stacey Blankenship as stated above. You can get all of your adapters from him as well. If you're trying to call Tim or send him emails... It's a good can at a very good price, but it is impossible to get ahold of Tim directly.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Handloader</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tried to contact SAS and left voice mail. I watched a friend shoot his SAS on a 7mm Mag, and was impressed. That said, I have yet to have a return phone call, and have subsequently contacted a few class III dealers to get additional suggestions for a can. I did not see a SAS review on silencer research, and was just going off of my own observation and limited experience. This is my first can, and this thread makes me concerned about customer no-service. </div></div>
Rick, contact Stacey Blankenship as stated above. You can get all of your adapters from him as well. If you're trying to call Tim or send him emails... It's a good can at a very good price, but it is impossible to get ahold of Tim directly.
Re: sas accuracy
MJM: To keep things on the honest and fair side, you were contacted, we discussed your options to resolve your issue. You basically stated you were going to "trouble shoot" the issue @ your level, wanted another muzzle brake basically as a "free lender", (which by the way no company will send you a product for free an allow the end user to trouble shoot any issue, especially one like this!), you decided not to send the rifle in for evaluation and can repairs as required. So I would clearly state it is your decision which has made this an impossible and clear resolution.
As to the Customer Service side of this issue. I have stated more than once via the Hide, emails and phone calls, that Tim is a "one man very busy shop" trying to keep up with orders, and all the other issues which we are working into. He can not talk on the phone for hours, email and run the machines at the same time safely. That is why I have stepped in to assist him and ask customers to pass along me as his CS contact with approval from Tim of course. So with that being said again, I will assist any current or potential SAS customer, so please contact me directly. Thanks again for your continued support.
MJM: To keep things on the honest and fair side, you were contacted, we discussed your options to resolve your issue. You basically stated you were going to "trouble shoot" the issue @ your level, wanted another muzzle brake basically as a "free lender", (which by the way no company will send you a product for free an allow the end user to trouble shoot any issue, especially one like this!), you decided not to send the rifle in for evaluation and can repairs as required. So I would clearly state it is your decision which has made this an impossible and clear resolution.
As to the Customer Service side of this issue. I have stated more than once via the Hide, emails and phone calls, that Tim is a "one man very busy shop" trying to keep up with orders, and all the other issues which we are working into. He can not talk on the phone for hours, email and run the machines at the same time safely. That is why I have stepped in to assist him and ask customers to pass along me as his CS contact with approval from Tim of course. So with that being said again, I will assist any current or potential SAS customer, so please contact me directly. Thanks again for your continued support.
Re: sas accuracy
why doesn't he put your info on his website?
I'm still having issues with mine. It won't thread to the shoulder on two of my guns, one is threaded to AAC specs (300 whisper), and the other one is a GAP (308 win). What specs does he thread his cans for? It screws all the way down on the rifle I had tornado tech thread (308 win). I'll give you a call.
why doesn't he put your info on his website?
I'm still having issues with mine. It won't thread to the shoulder on two of my guns, one is threaded to AAC specs (300 whisper), and the other one is a GAP (308 win). What specs does he thread his cans for? It screws all the way down on the rifle I had tornado tech thread (308 win). I'll give you a call.
Re: sas accuracy
To directly respond to "ptaylor". The reason why is very simple. If you read my statement it in "DIRECT Customer Support" to "HIDE" members. I don't think I need to discuss issues with all of his customers. If they are here and have a comment, issue or need assistance, I will help. Hope this clears the fog.
To directly respond to "ptaylor". The reason why is very simple. If you read my statement it in "DIRECT Customer Support" to "HIDE" members. I don't think I need to discuss issues with all of his customers. If they are here and have a comment, issue or need assistance, I will help. Hope this clears the fog.
Re: sas accuracy
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is typical shift? </div></div>
I get almost 2 moa at 600yds with mine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what is typical shift? </div></div>
I get almost 2 moa at 600yds with mine.
Re: sas accuracy
Stacey,
You know very well I never asked for a new muzzle brake as a "free lender". I asked Tim to contact me and said I would pay for the new brake via "check, paypal, visa, whatever".
Here are the emails:
<span style="color: #FF0000">
From: Matthew Miner
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 13:05:13 +0000
To: Stacey Blankenship<[email protected]>; Tim SAS<[email protected]>
Subject: RE: SAS Suppressor Problem
Stacey, I understand you proofed the suppressor. However, you did not proof it with my .308 muzzle brake.
While you and Tim may "agree" that the muzzle brake is not the issue, I am not fully convinced.
All I asked was that you send me (sell me) a new muzzle brake, so I could troubleshoot the issue.
Tim wrote (see below): "I have a batch of muzzle breaks getting parked today and would be happy to send one out to Matt. the cost would of course be $75.00+$5.00 for shipping. If it turns out to be the break he can return the original for a refund."
Yet you wrote (see below): "We are not going to send another brake and condone further shooting and damage to a known problem. We have discussed this and made you aware of our position."
Looks to me like the two of you can't decide what you want to do.
I ask that both of you go back and slowly read the emails that I sent to you. I was never once contentious. I never tried to assign you any blame. I offered to fully pay for the replacement muzzle brake and any repairs to the suppressor if it was concluded that the barrel threading is the culprit.
I even went so far as to say "If it is the muzzle brake, and I decide to have the suppressor repaired, Tim and I can work something out."
Well, I think I will cut my losses here. I'm not about to send Tim my rifle and suppressor. He won't even answer his phone or reply directly to my emails.
It's a shame.
Subject: Re: SAS Suppressor Problem
To: Matthew Miner; [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 03:52:10 +0000
Matt,
Tim replied and I forwarded the recommendations. If you decide to continue on this course that will be your choice. I proofed the suppressor and no issues. We both agree the muzzle brake is not the issue and fully believe the threading to be the issue. Whether you shoot the can at 25yds or 100yds will not prove or provide any further evidence to where the issue is at. We are not going to send another brake and condone further shooting and damage to a known problem. We have discussed this and made you aware of our position. If you decide to send the rifle in for inspection let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Matthew Miner
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 00:34:07 +0000
To: Tim SAS<[email protected]>; Stacey Blankenship<[email protected]>
Subject: FW: SAS Suppressor Problem
Tim, did my email below reach you? Please reply or call me as I would like to resolve this issue.
Stacey, I've included you on this email because I'm not sure I have the correct email address for Tim, as he has never contacted me directly.
Thanks guys,
Matt
From: Matthew Miner
To: [email protected]
Subject: SAS Suppressor Problem
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 00:41:33 +0000
Tim,
Thanks for your help. Why don't we try a new muzzle brake first. I will only shoot one shot at 25 yards (this way I won't induce any more damage). I should know immediately if it's the barrel or the brake.
If it's the barrel, then I'll have my gunsmith re-thread it, and I'll send you the suppressor for repair. On my nickel of course.
If it's the brake, then you and I can talk about repairs.
Please send the new brake to the address below.
Matthew Miner
XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX, XX XXXXX
XXX-XXX-XXXX (work, best time 6am to 3pm)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (cell)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (home)
Let me know how you would like to be paid for the new brake (check, paypal, visa, whatever.)
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thanks,
Matt
Stacey,
I would be happy to trace the problem for Matt. Since this was a suppressor that was sold through you I know that it has been proofed and tested to be up
to your performance standards. I also know you keep documented proof of mentioned testing. I am inclined to believe the culprit to be the barrel threading.
Anyone can have a bad day so regardless of how well know the smith is that did the job, an error on their part is impossible to rule out. This also includes me
so it is possible that there could be a problem with the suppressor or muzzle break. Had this suppressor not been tested by you prior to shipping I would be
less confident that it is the barrel.
I have a batch of muzzle breaks getting parked today and would be happy to send one out to Matt. the cost would of course be $75.00+$5.00 for shipping.
If it turns out to be the break he can return the original for a refund. As an alternative I would be happy to have Matt send his rifle, suppressor and mounts
to me to inspect and correct. If it turns out to be the fault of Suppressed Armament there would be no charge. If its the barrel normal charges will apply.
As a side note, continued use of the suppressor knowing there is a problem could damage the can so much that it can not be repaired without incurring another
$200 tax from atf and undergoing the form 4 transfer again.
Tim Humston
SAS-LL
From: Matthew Miner
Sent: Fri 9/25/09 11:33 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Hi Stacey and Tim,
As I tried to express in my first email (although perhaps it was not very well written), I too suspect that the barrel threading is the culprit.
However, I was hoping that one of you could send me a new .308 muzzle brake, because that will be the easiest way for me to troubleshoot the issue.
Of course I will return either the original or the replacement.
The suppressor is damaged a bit, but it still works great with my .223, so I'm happy.
At this point, I'm not trying to assign any blame, I just want to figure out why I'm getting baffle strikes with my .308.
If it turns out that the muzzle brake is the culprit, Tim and I can work something out if I decide to have the suppressor repaired.
If it turns out the barrel is the culprit, I'll return the muzzle brake, and any repairs will be my responsibility.
So, will one of you please send me a new .308 muzzle brake??
Regards,
Matthew Miner
XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX, XX XXXXX
XXX-XXX-XXXX (work, best time 6am to 3pm)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (cell)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (home)
On a side note,
Tim,
My mother lives in Evansville, and the wife, kids and I were down there over Labor Day weekend.
We got broad-sided at the corner of Mill Road and First Avenue by an old lady who ran a red light. Thank goodness no one was seriously hurt.
Can't say the same about the wife's Denali, it's still at Kenny Kent's being repaired (although they say it should be done early next week). Be careful down there!!
Have a good weekend guys.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:24:03 -0400
Subject: Re: SAS Suppressor Problem
From: [email protected]
To: Matthew Miner; [email protected]
Hello Matt,
I tried to call you today but ended up leaving a message. If you will recall, we discussed the barrel threading issue. If you decide to go with a local gunsmith that would be your decision. With the information you have provided, it sounds to me that it is in the barrel for sure, not the muzzle brake. If one man did the job that narrows down the issue but I will discuss with Tim to see what if anything can be offered. If the can is damaged, it will not be covered under warranty if found the barrel is the cause. If it is one of the other devices from SAS it will be covered, fixed and returned at no cost. Please provide me with current contact information and I will be glad to discuss with you when available.
Stacey Blankenship
Accuracy International of North America
Office: (252) 771-5112
Email: [email protected]
www.accuracyinternational.com
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Matthew Miner wrote:
Stacey,
I finally got my Form 4 approved and I took possession of my SAS 7.62 suppressor last Friday.
Unfortunately I have a problem.
I am getting baffle strikes with my R700 in .308.
I suspect that it is not the suppressor at issue because everything functions flawlessly with the suppressor attached to my R700 in .223.
It certainly is possible that the threading for the muzzle brake is the culprit, but both my .308 and .223 we're threaded by the same, well respected gunsmith.
I tried to call SAS directly, but no one answers the phone number on their website.
What I would like is to have a replacement .308 muzzle brake sent to me, that way I can determine if it is the brake or the threading job that is the culprit.
Can you help with this, or can you tell me how to contact Tim at SAS?
Regards,
Matt Miner
</span>
Perhaps you should re-read the emails to see who attempted to be honest and fair.
Stacey,
You know very well I never asked for a new muzzle brake as a "free lender". I asked Tim to contact me and said I would pay for the new brake via "check, paypal, visa, whatever".
Here are the emails:
<span style="color: #FF0000">
From: Matthew Miner
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 13:05:13 +0000
To: Stacey Blankenship<[email protected]>; Tim SAS<[email protected]>
Subject: RE: SAS Suppressor Problem
Stacey, I understand you proofed the suppressor. However, you did not proof it with my .308 muzzle brake.
While you and Tim may "agree" that the muzzle brake is not the issue, I am not fully convinced.
All I asked was that you send me (sell me) a new muzzle brake, so I could troubleshoot the issue.
Tim wrote (see below): "I have a batch of muzzle breaks getting parked today and would be happy to send one out to Matt. the cost would of course be $75.00+$5.00 for shipping. If it turns out to be the break he can return the original for a refund."
Yet you wrote (see below): "We are not going to send another brake and condone further shooting and damage to a known problem. We have discussed this and made you aware of our position."
Looks to me like the two of you can't decide what you want to do.
I ask that both of you go back and slowly read the emails that I sent to you. I was never once contentious. I never tried to assign you any blame. I offered to fully pay for the replacement muzzle brake and any repairs to the suppressor if it was concluded that the barrel threading is the culprit.
I even went so far as to say "If it is the muzzle brake, and I decide to have the suppressor repaired, Tim and I can work something out."
Well, I think I will cut my losses here. I'm not about to send Tim my rifle and suppressor. He won't even answer his phone or reply directly to my emails.
It's a shame.
Subject: Re: SAS Suppressor Problem
To: Matthew Miner; [email protected]
From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 03:52:10 +0000
Matt,
Tim replied and I forwarded the recommendations. If you decide to continue on this course that will be your choice. I proofed the suppressor and no issues. We both agree the muzzle brake is not the issue and fully believe the threading to be the issue. Whether you shoot the can at 25yds or 100yds will not prove or provide any further evidence to where the issue is at. We are not going to send another brake and condone further shooting and damage to a known problem. We have discussed this and made you aware of our position. If you decide to send the rifle in for inspection let me know. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
From: Matthew Miner
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 00:34:07 +0000
To: Tim SAS<[email protected]>; Stacey Blankenship<[email protected]>
Subject: FW: SAS Suppressor Problem
Tim, did my email below reach you? Please reply or call me as I would like to resolve this issue.
Stacey, I've included you on this email because I'm not sure I have the correct email address for Tim, as he has never contacted me directly.
Thanks guys,
Matt
From: Matthew Miner
To: [email protected]
Subject: SAS Suppressor Problem
Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 00:41:33 +0000
Tim,
Thanks for your help. Why don't we try a new muzzle brake first. I will only shoot one shot at 25 yards (this way I won't induce any more damage). I should know immediately if it's the barrel or the brake.
If it's the barrel, then I'll have my gunsmith re-thread it, and I'll send you the suppressor for repair. On my nickel of course.
If it's the brake, then you and I can talk about repairs.
Please send the new brake to the address below.
Matthew Miner
XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX, XX XXXXX
XXX-XXX-XXXX (work, best time 6am to 3pm)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (cell)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (home)
Let me know how you would like to be paid for the new brake (check, paypal, visa, whatever.)
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Thanks,
Matt
Stacey,
I would be happy to trace the problem for Matt. Since this was a suppressor that was sold through you I know that it has been proofed and tested to be up
to your performance standards. I also know you keep documented proof of mentioned testing. I am inclined to believe the culprit to be the barrel threading.
Anyone can have a bad day so regardless of how well know the smith is that did the job, an error on their part is impossible to rule out. This also includes me
so it is possible that there could be a problem with the suppressor or muzzle break. Had this suppressor not been tested by you prior to shipping I would be
less confident that it is the barrel.
I have a batch of muzzle breaks getting parked today and would be happy to send one out to Matt. the cost would of course be $75.00+$5.00 for shipping.
If it turns out to be the break he can return the original for a refund. As an alternative I would be happy to have Matt send his rifle, suppressor and mounts
to me to inspect and correct. If it turns out to be the fault of Suppressed Armament there would be no charge. If its the barrel normal charges will apply.
As a side note, continued use of the suppressor knowing there is a problem could damage the can so much that it can not be repaired without incurring another
$200 tax from atf and undergoing the form 4 transfer again.
Tim Humston
SAS-LL
From: Matthew Miner
Sent: Fri 9/25/09 11:33 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Hi Stacey and Tim,
As I tried to express in my first email (although perhaps it was not very well written), I too suspect that the barrel threading is the culprit.
However, I was hoping that one of you could send me a new .308 muzzle brake, because that will be the easiest way for me to troubleshoot the issue.
Of course I will return either the original or the replacement.
The suppressor is damaged a bit, but it still works great with my .223, so I'm happy.
At this point, I'm not trying to assign any blame, I just want to figure out why I'm getting baffle strikes with my .308.
If it turns out that the muzzle brake is the culprit, Tim and I can work something out if I decide to have the suppressor repaired.
If it turns out the barrel is the culprit, I'll return the muzzle brake, and any repairs will be my responsibility.
So, will one of you please send me a new .308 muzzle brake??
Regards,
Matthew Miner
XXXX XXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX, XX XXXXX
XXX-XXX-XXXX (work, best time 6am to 3pm)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (cell)
XXX-XXX-XXXX (home)
On a side note,
Tim,
My mother lives in Evansville, and the wife, kids and I were down there over Labor Day weekend.
We got broad-sided at the corner of Mill Road and First Avenue by an old lady who ran a red light. Thank goodness no one was seriously hurt.
Can't say the same about the wife's Denali, it's still at Kenny Kent's being repaired (although they say it should be done early next week). Be careful down there!!
Have a good weekend guys.
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 16:24:03 -0400
Subject: Re: SAS Suppressor Problem
From: [email protected]
To: Matthew Miner; [email protected]
Hello Matt,
I tried to call you today but ended up leaving a message. If you will recall, we discussed the barrel threading issue. If you decide to go with a local gunsmith that would be your decision. With the information you have provided, it sounds to me that it is in the barrel for sure, not the muzzle brake. If one man did the job that narrows down the issue but I will discuss with Tim to see what if anything can be offered. If the can is damaged, it will not be covered under warranty if found the barrel is the cause. If it is one of the other devices from SAS it will be covered, fixed and returned at no cost. Please provide me with current contact information and I will be glad to discuss with you when available.
Stacey Blankenship
Accuracy International of North America
Office: (252) 771-5112
Email: [email protected]
www.accuracyinternational.com
On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Matthew Miner wrote:
Stacey,
I finally got my Form 4 approved and I took possession of my SAS 7.62 suppressor last Friday.
Unfortunately I have a problem.
I am getting baffle strikes with my R700 in .308.
I suspect that it is not the suppressor at issue because everything functions flawlessly with the suppressor attached to my R700 in .223.
It certainly is possible that the threading for the muzzle brake is the culprit, but both my .308 and .223 we're threaded by the same, well respected gunsmith.
I tried to call SAS directly, but no one answers the phone number on their website.
What I would like is to have a replacement .308 muzzle brake sent to me, that way I can determine if it is the brake or the threading job that is the culprit.
Can you help with this, or can you tell me how to contact Tim at SAS?
Regards,
Matt Miner
</span>
Perhaps you should re-read the emails to see who attempted to be honest and fair.
Re: sas accuracy
I think this is the last place for a pissing contest. Why don't people understand that most BS is usually started due to miscommunications or misunderstandings. Everyone is just to ready to piss on the other person instead of paying attention and/or clarify things.
Be happy and don't fret over the small stuff, the both of you.
Geesh!
I think this is the last place for a pissing contest. Why don't people understand that most BS is usually started due to miscommunications or misunderstandings. Everyone is just to ready to piss on the other person instead of paying attention and/or clarify things.
Be happy and don't fret over the small stuff, the both of you.
Geesh!
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