Savage 10T (308 WIN) with max OAL 2.700 inches?

[zhangla]

New to reloading...

Is it possible that factory Savage 10T 308 WIN has an max OAL (bottom of brass to tip of bullet) 2.700 inches? Do Savages usually have short throat like that?

I used the Hornady OAL gauge, 308 modified shell and the 308 insert to test my rifle with 175 gr SMK bullet. The tool allows using a rod to push bullet so that ogive touchs the lands, then I measured both the distance from ogive to bottom of brass and from tip of bullet to the bottom of brass.

I always find the 168 gr SMK is easier to chamber than the 175 gr SMK. Maybe the ogive for 175 SMK is further out to the tip of the bullet than the 168 SMK.

Is it safe to seat bullet according to what the measurement says? I thought 2.800 inches is the min OAL for safe pressure. Thanks in advance.

 

[TheJ]

That seems a bit short, but not crazy. Luckily short is easier to correct than long if you so desire, just needs a reamer put in it again.

Generally speaking with rifle ammo, shorter OAL (within reason) means less pressure. The rifle cases are big enough that as a percentage you are not losing a bunch of case volume by seating deeper. So you will get a very small jump in pressure from a very small percentage of less case volume. BUT you will drop pressure more by giving the projectile a "running start" at the lands. Generally, the longer the jump to the lands (again, within reason) the lower the pressure you will have. Burrying the bullet into the lands will case pretty significant increases in pressure.

On a pistol, setting back further is a large percentage of case capacity and can create large pressure spikes.

That said, you don't generally want to be burying the bullet FAR below the neck of the case. I would compare this OAL to make sure my bullet wasn't WAY under the neck, but I don't think it will be. If it was reasonable, and it were me, I would test it out, starting LOW and working up as any good hand loader should.

 

[former naval person]

Assuming your measurements are correct, yes it is safe. Do the usual workup and you'll be fine.

 

[Thump_rrr]

My savage 10BA is 2.820 to the lands using a 175gr SMK.
My Savage 10TR is 2.805 to the lands using a 175gr SMK.

With the 10BA I can use a 190gr SMK or a 208gr A-Max and still be at 2.800"
With the 10 TR not so much.

I would call Savage and see if it within their spec for that particular rifle.
You would think that they would want people to be able to go out and purchase some 168gr or 175gr FGMM and be able to shoot them in a bone stock rifle.

 

[zhangla]

You are right on.

I found it was so difficult to chamber FGMM 175gr round, then I measured the bottom to ogive and it was 3.238. My rifle allows max bottom to ogive of 3.181, thus the FGMM is sticking the bullet into my lands/rifling. One time I tried to pull the live round out, and I ended up separating the bullet from the case, spilling powder all over the place.

My savage 10BA is 2.820 to the lands using a 175gr SMK.
My Savage 10TR is 2.805 to the lands using a 175gr SMK.

With the 10BA I can use a 190gr SMK or a 208gr A-Max and still be at 2.800"
With the 10 TR not so much.

I would call Savage and see if it within their spec for that particular rifle.
You would think that they would want people to be able to go out and purchase some 168gr or 175gr FGMM and be able to shoot them in a bone stock rifle.

 

[Brux]

That's what I was thinking,what would you do if you wanted to shoot factory ammo?Something don't sound right.

 

[zhangla]

The Norma 168gr factory ammo works perfectly fine. In fact, my rifle has been shooting 0.3MOA all the time with that ammo.

I measured the Norma 168gr bottom to ogive and it is 3.212 which is just the right amount off the lands (max bottom to ogive for 168gr SMK on my rifle is 3.238). Also, Black Hills 168gr has 3.191 which is fine too, although the jump is a bit excessive.

 

[TacticalBoltKnob]

My Savage 10T is 2.793" touching the lands with 175 SMKs. With 168 AMAXs it is 2.815".

Some Savages have a short throat. Combine that with the fat ogive of the 175 SMKS, and you get a short COAL in order to be at the lands.

I load my 175 SMKs to 2.773" to be .020" off the lands. Crazy, hey? But with only 42.2 grains of IMR 4064, I am getting 2650 fps.

I will admit that 2.700" seems a little excessive. Try measuring again.

 

[zhangla]

Yeah. I did measure these again. Thanks for the information.

It seems due to the different ogive positions on 168gr vs. 175gr SMK, the max OAL my rifle can handle for the 168gr SMK is 2.793 while the max OAL for 175gr SMK is 2.733.

Black Hills 168gr SMK has about 0.020 jump from lands, while Norma 168gr SMK has 0.016 jump. Both work well in my rifle.

The problem is with FGMM 175gr SMK where the ogive will stick into lands.

Now for my own handloaded 175gr SMK, with 0.016 jump from lands, the OAL is about 2.733. I am using 2.011'' non-trimmed brass, only neck sized.

 

[TacticalBoltKnob]

Yeah. I did measure these again. Thanks for the information.

It seems due to the different ogive positions on 168gr vs. 175gr SMK, the max OAL my rifle can handle for the 168gr SMK is 2.793 while the max OAL for 175gr SMK is 2.733.

Black Hills 168gr SMK has about 0.020 jump from lands, while Norma 168gr SMK has 0.016 jump. Both work well in my rifle.

The problem is with FGMM 175gr SMK where the ogive will stick into lands.

Now for my own handloaded 175gr SMK, with 0.016 jump from lands, the OAL is about 2.733. I am using 2.011'' non-trimmed brass, only neck sized.

When you can't use factory ammo because it is more-than jammed into the lands, and ejecting an unfired round may leave a bullet in the rifling, then it may be time to contact Savage and say their short throats are getting a little out of hand. If I were in your position, that is exactly what I would do.

 

[zhangla]

There is another thing about the short throat...I found that using only 42gr of IMR4064 I am getting 2740fps MV with the 175gr SMK. That seems like pretty hot. I am new to reloading but I guess shorter throat causes higher pressure, right?

 

[zhangla]

When you can't use factory ammo because it is more-than jammed into the lands, and ejecting an unfired round may leave a bullet in the rifling, then it may be time to contact Savage and say their short throats are getting a little out of hand. If I were in your position, that is exactly what I would do.

This is good advice. Thanks. The only thing is that I have installed the muzzle brake on the barrel and I don't know if that breaks warranty with Savage or not.

 

[Thump_rrr]

This is good advice. Thanks. The only thing is that I have installed the muzzle brake on the barrel and I don't know if that breaks warranty with Savage or not.

Was the barrel threaded from the factory or did you have it threaded?

 

[zhangla]

I have it threaded and installed a JP muzzle brake by a gunsmith. The gunsmith told me he did not take the barrel off the action, because he got enough room to thread the barrel with the action on.

 

[TacticalBoltKnob]

I highly doubt having the barrel threaded for a muzzle brake would affect your warranty with Savage. Can't hurt to ask, because if you are too afraid to ask, then you don't have a warranty anyway. Best thing to do is probably not to mention it at all. If you send the rifle back to them, they probably won't even care, and they are much less likely to argue once the rifle is in their possession for repairs on a totally unrelated issue.

 

[TacticalBoltKnob]

There is another thing about the short throat...I found that using only 42gr of IMR4064 I am getting 2740fps MV with the 175gr SMK. That seems like pretty hot. I am new to reloading but I guess shorter throat causes higher pressure, right?

Absolutely. Pressure spikes higher when your bullet is close to the lands. Combine that with a quicker burning powder like IMR4064 and you get higher pressure and higher velocities. I ran into the exact same thing.

While my throat is unusually short, yours is unreasonably short. I would definitely be sending it back to Savage.