F T/R Competition Savage F/TR Barrel issue

[J-ROD]

I just noticed this chunk missing tonight while cleaning the barrel. I can feel it with a patch, guessing .5mm deep. I can't tell if there are any other bad spots in the bore other than this, no bore scope.

By mouzetrap at 2012-04-11

Gun has exactly 598 rounds through it, 250 since last cleaning. I haven't been getting the accuracy I used to get but then again I have changed a lot of things and this is the first time I have not cleaned the barrel after every range session...definitely the most rounds put through between cleanings.

So what caused this? Too hot of barrel temps, too hot of rounds, etc or just crappy SS used by savage? I imagine it's not ideal but how much will it hurt accuracy?

Anyone have a spare stock FTR 308 barrel or should I just start planning on upgrading?

 

[wadebrown]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

I would highly recommend getting a Critierion pre-fit barrel, I have seen some pretty amazing barrels on Savages that Criterion did. Go with the Criterion if you want to install it yourself, otherwise get a blank from any of the known manufactures and have a gunsmith install the barrel. I would go with a no-nut approach if a gunsmith installs the barrel. I have seem some great shooting using the barrel nut so it is probably personal preference to go with or without and nut.

wade

 

[jsthntn247]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wwbrown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would highly recommend getting a Critierion pre-fit barrel, I have seen some pretty amazing barrels on Savages that Criterion did. Go with the Criterion if you want to install it yourself, otherwise get a blank from any of the known manufactures and have a gunsmith install the barrel. I would go with a no-nut approach if a gunsmith installs the barrel. I have seem some great shooting using the barrel nut so it is probably personal preference to go with or without and nut.

wade</div></div>

+1 on the criterion. That chunk has probably been there the whole time, it's not a match grade barrel and more than likely not even hand lapped.

 

[buffybuster]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

Looks like it's pretty close to the muzzle. Cut and recrown; see how it shoots then.

 

[no1special]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

pondering. could this be a casting flaw (air bubble?) that had a paper thin steel covering from the factory covering the flaw? a few shoots down range wear/tear it away. viola! a chunk missing.

 

[Al_Ski]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

Doubt it would be a gas bubble. More likely a pocket of dirt (inclusion). You'd have to segment the barrel and look at it under an electron microscope to be sure.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: truman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">pondering. could this be a casting flaw (air bubble?) that had a paper thin steel covering from the factory covering the flaw? a few shoots down range wear/tear it away. viola! a chunk missing. </div></div>

Yea you are probably right. I see this in cast barrels all the time.

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

Thanks for the responses guys! Replying via cell phone so forgive grammar.
i know the pic isn't very good but i think you are right, looks like a casting flaw as a layer of ss peeled/broke off...a semi-galled look. With only 600rds, i don't know if it's done coming apart.
Anywho, after talking with a savage guru on here as well as responses in this thread, i decided to call Jim about criterion barrels...just to get an idea of cost, etc.
Long story short, an hour later i had bought a barrel, action clamp amd nut wrench! Let's just say that is exactly the kind of business i prefer to give my money too....wow, GREAT customer service! I'm a newbie and know just enough to be dangerous lol. He was very patient and understanding and walked me through everything. If i had more money, I'd a bought a couple more barrels hehe. Highly recommend him! !!!
Fwiw, i have been squirrelling away money for a barrel for awhile but not for a replacement but for one with a tighter twist so i can shoot the heavies...so much for having two barrels to experiment with.
I'll report back when i get the new one on and get some groups with it.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

DUDE - your barrel, and rifle barrels in general, are not cast. Here is a good article on the steel and rifling processes. Savage barrels are button rifled.

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotBarrelMakingFeature.htm

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

Dangit, silly phone just deleted my response.
Thanks for the link, didn't mean it was a casting but that it looks like casting flaws i have seen before, especially in al...like a chunk delaminated. I guess a dull tool and/or not enough lube could have galled or rolled the ss...then a bullet just broke it free.

 

[kschilling]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

Yep.... I've put CBI on several builds. However, my .308 wears a Shilen 30 in select match. If you get the chance, and have someone near by, see if you can get it bore-scoped. If not, get with me and we'll work out a shipping deal. I have a Hawkeye Video Bore-Scope that I use just for this issue.

 

[Denys]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

I can't make heads or tails of your picture, so I'm not sure what I'm looking at. I suspect you have an erosion problem in your stainless steel barrel, IF, repeat, IF, this is near the chamber. These barrels are usually made of 416R stainless steel and erosion on that steel will look like dried up mud puddles do. What may have happened is that one of those pieces flew off and that's how stainless steel barrels lose their accuracy really quickly. However, with a .308 I would not expect that to happen unlit at least 5000 rounds or more, unless you horribly abuse your rifle.

Barrels are not "cast", the steel used comes from a couple of steel companies in bars and is first cut to some length, deep drilled and then rifled using one of several methods and contoured.

Did you contact Savage about this? I'm sure they would be interested. And yes, a bore scope is the only way to be sure of what you are seeing.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

I would contact Savage on this, and I would have done so before posting a beef about it first. If it is indeeed a manufacturing flaw and it was something I'd built, I'd appreciate an opportunity to put things right before having to deal with getting blindsided on a public forum before I even knew there was a problem

 

[J-ROD]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

KSchilling, thanks for the response and the offer, I may very well take you up on that if I can't find anyone locally to take a look-see.

Denys, the spot is ~1.25in from the muzzle and looks like what a ceramic would look like if there was a fracture and then a separation, or as mentioned earlier like a casting looks when there are contaminents. Aren't all metals originally cast or smelted from ore then rolled/forged/etc into billet pieces as necessary for the particular application?

Greg, first and foremost, my apologies to Savage or anyone associated with them, this was not intended to be a bashing thread. The best group I have ever printed in my life was the first box of FGMM168's through this gun right out of the box, so for sure kudos to Savage for making one heck of a rifle, and affordable too. Unfortunately that's the only factory ammo the gun would shoot well, which won't suffice for the 1k stuff and sent me off into improving what I could do myself.
The "crappy" comment was because I have seen a lot of people say their barrel QC is poor (chattering marks, rough rifling, etc) and their SS is softer than most barrel makers...nonetheless they flat out shoot either way.
I did contact Savage before posting this and the tech lady was very nice and helpful. She said to send it in and they would check it out...would take 2-4wks to turn it around. If it was just the barrel they needed then sure, great, but at a minimum they need the bolt, action and barrel which leaves me dead in the water for awhile. Seeing as I have bedded the rifle, done the bolt lift mod, removed the ejector spring to keep the case mouths from getting smashed into the action upon ejecting them AND I am new to reloading, pushing some hot-ish loads through the gun, I didn't know what the outcome would be. Sure I could put it back to stock but they may be able to tell I have monkeyed with it. I know if I was a manufacturer and a customer modified my rifle, I wouldn't warranty it. Same reason Ford doesn't warranty blown HG's on diesels once they see a programmer has been installed/uninstalled
Consider $30-$70 each way to ship the rifle and more than likely some cost for labor and/or a new stock barrel, i decided to post here to see if anyone could give input on whether it was something I did or a possible material flaw. Obviously that tiny pic doesn't help much but maybe others here had "chunks" missing from their savage barrels and could give some input.

I have used Sweets, KG12, Hoppes #9, BBS & Kroil to clean the gun but have always used alky inbetween them in hopes of preventing two chemicals reacting negatively.
I have also shot the gun multiple times with a clean, dry bore, again using alky. I have put 29-30 rds through the gun in a 30min period on a 85F day. Things like this may be what caused this...again, I don't know, that's why I posted...I am a newbie!

I am not blaming Savage, and am willing to take full responsibility for something I did to their great shooting gun, just looking for some input to make sure I don't do it again.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

OK, I guess I jumped the gun on this, sorry if I mischaracterized your situation.

Like you, I can't predict what would happen if you send your rifle to Savage. I just don't think conjecture, either way, serves any purpose here.

If they say to send it, send it.

If you have a problem after that, then it's a real issue, and not a point of conjecture.

My own experiences with Savage Customer Service, while very limited, have always been positive.

I agree that Savage bore finish generally tends to be on the rougher side. While this has seldom been the root cause of inacuracy, in my expereince, it does extend the period before bore wear and fouing conditions tend to stabilize. It's a fact of life with Savage barrels, and aside from needing to clean them more at first, does not mean to me that there's anything significantly 'bad' about their barrels.

Greg

 

[Denys]

Re: Savage F/TR Barrel issue

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J--ROD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Denys, the spot is ~1.25in from the muzzle and looks like what a ceramic would look like if there was a fracture and then a separation, or as mentioned earlier like a casting looks when there are contaminents. Aren't all metals originally cast or smelted from ore then rolled/forged/etc into billet pieces as necessary for the particular application?

(snip)

I am not blaming Savage, and am willing to take full responsibility for something I did to their great shooting gun, just looking for some input to make sure I don't do it again. </div></div>

I am not a metalurgist. However, I have once stayed at a Holiday Inn, and I think it's safe to say that your ammunition and cleaning regimen have nothing to do with this defect. I can see why Savage wants to see the rifle and I would send it to them and let them deal with it.