Savage first round fliers???

[tomme boy]

OK, I have a Savage with the target barrel. I put it in a Boyds Tac stock an used the DIP bottom metal an triger gaurd. I am having a problem over an over again. The first round is always 2" high. After that it will put the rest of the 9 into about a 1" group at 100 yds. If I keep shooting it is OK, it will not throw the first one off. Now, if I let the gun sit for about 15-30 minutes, the flier is there again.

Does anyone having a clue as to why this happens?

 

[clayne_b]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

My cz does that. and damnit it pisses me off

 

[bobtodrick]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Count me in too.
I have the 93FVSS.
First shot is always about 3" high and a bit to the left (100m).
The next shot will be within 1/2" of dead center on the bull and the next 5 shots can be covered by a silver dollar.
But that first shot is always off.

 

[mrbooks10]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Cold bore shot are usually Different from when the bore is warm. I dont know how that is but i know that cold bore shots are high/lower than your next shot with a warm bore

 

[chemist1]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

My marlin does this too. My theory is that the lube left in the barrel from previous shooting sessions needs to warm up a bit. After it is warm then it behaves consistently. There is also a lot of information about this over on rim fire central. I would spend some time searching it out over there and I bet you will find something that helps reduce the 1st round fliers.

 

[tomme boy]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Most of the stuff from RFC deals with the 10-22 for the fliers. Mostly because of the way you load the first round. It should be the same on a bolt action every time.

 

[bobtodrick]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Just did a google search on 'cold bore flyers .22" and there were 80000+ hits. Weed all the sales ads and such and it is still apparent that this is a very real issue with lots of unproven reasons.
chemist1 thinking (residual oils) does seem to have a pretty solid following.
My thinking is that the much hotter temps involved with a centerfire means there just isn't that much leftover lube in the bore so it doesn't affect subsequent cold bore shots.

 

[tman300wm]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Dry-fire at the target for about 10 min prior to sending your first round down range. Pay special attention to natural point of aim, sight alignment, breathing, and follow through on your trigger. I know there are those that will disagree, and I may get some flak on this, but I don't much buy into the cold bore myth. I have found that by dry-firing before I start sending rounds I no longer have the odd cold bore flyer. I think you will find considerable evidence to back this up in the on-line training section from Rifles Only. I'm not saying it's a remedy for what you are experiencing, but it certainly took care of the problem for me, and it way work for you. Plus it's cheap.

 

[tomme boy]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Tman, I have tried what you are saying. It still happens. I do not get them with my 308 unless I have completly cleaned all of the copper out of the bore and it was the first shot. Then that rifle will print the first round 1" high and 1/2" left. After that it will not do it again until I strip the copper out of the barrel again.

I like to take 4-5 Dry fires before I shoot just to see how I am holding and how smooth the trigger pull is that day. I will admit that some days it take a little longer to get in the grove.

 

[2guard]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

I would not recommend dry-firing the savage. Savage rimfires are supposed to have the firing pin vertical to match the line at the barrel, but I would not chance it. If it is the least bit out of alignment, it could dent the breech. Although there are some threads on the internet that say the its ok, the pin will be contacting the breech face instead of the brass. My luck it would not break while dry-firing, but while at the range and ruin my day. I do, however, dry-fire my centerfires all the time. I like to dry-fire 20-30 times at the range if I notice my groups are starting to open up after I have been there a while. Because, I know my rifle will shoot better than I can make it.
Not saying it cant be done, but I would not take the chance.
not a savage, but gives you an idea (think this is a browning)

found this on search, posted by Chad Dixon of LongRifles, Inc. 1/10/2011. I figure he knows a lot more about firearms than I probably ever will, so I take his advice. the post is here for reference: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2645398

Regarding rimfires:

CERTAIN rimfire actions are designed to be dry fired. The Anschutz 52 and 20 series actions being two that come to mind.

Feinwerkbau's, Bleikkers, Grunigs, Hammerli's, SeeHubber's, and Walthers are also designed like this.

I don't profess to know every 22 out there. Just the ones I've built/serviced/sold.

If the striker protrudes past the forward most face of the bolt, don't pull the trigger without a fired case in the chamber and/or a snap cap. If you do it will more than likely ding the breech and this will almost certainly kill accuracy to some degree. It'll wipe a big ol fat groove right down the driving band of the bullet.

There's no cardinal rules here. It depends on the design of the fire control.

 

[usmcchet9296]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

I got one of the first generation TR's and it suffered from the same problem, would have a first shot flyer, and nothing I did would fix it. Tried running the gun dirty, tried cleaning within an inch of its life, bedded it, and even put a rubber tube on the barrel so that is wasnt free floating. Nothing, no ammo, no suggestion, no amount of colorful language worked. Ended up selling it for a CZ 452 and never looked back.

 

[bobtodrick]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

I'm afraid I'll (respectfully) disagree Tman.
In the 80's I earned a try out for the Canadian national air-rifle team.
I cannot begin to count the number of dry-fires I've accumulated in my years, and I don't need to prepare to shoot by dry-firing...nope, that's not what's at play here.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

I have a MKII sporter barrel with the same problem, except its always takes 2-3 shots to settle down. I've got 5000+ rounds through it and the 1st shot is always 3-4 inches right or high, 2nd always 3-4 inches high, 3rd usually 1 inch high with the 4th always dead on.

I shoot 10 round clips and if i shoot them quickly, the 4-10 is always dead on. I have no problem hitting a 1 inch shoot n see at 50 yards.

I'll take a minute or two to reload the 10rnd clip, and the 1st shot is always off, usually high, then 2-10 are dead on target.

Its frustrating as hell

 

[rather-b-huntin]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Knocking on wood, but my FVSR doesn't do this.

 

[Frapiscide]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

I haven't notice a first round flier with my Savage Model F.

 

[sphillips]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

I haven't notice any first round flier with my TR. I have a CZ 452 Varmint that had this problem to start with but a good cleaning letting the cleaner soak for a while , then i brushed it out really good and the problem went away.

 

[ryanmc]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

So I can't help but read over these and wonder if the cold bore flier is subjective to each shooter. Each of us will have different accuracy, consistency, and expectations.

That being said my Savage TR normally takes about 3 shots to settle after the rifle has been sitting for 5-10 min. At 100yds this cold bore shot is normally about 1 or 1.5" off of where it will shoot with the warmed up barrel. I think its interesting that the next shot seems to always be half of that first cold bore away. Then the third shot is half away from the main group as the second shot etc. I'm sorry if this is difficult to read I just had a bunch of yuengling after work. That is all, thank you.

 

[Mike Sobr]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

Cold bore fliers are common and most guns do it just always run a couple fowlers before shooting the target and your good to go. When a match starts you will hear everybody ripping off a few rounds into the dirt and it sounds like machine guns at the start.
My CZ is especially bad for it too.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: Savage first round fliers???

It isn't a flier. The cold bore point of impact is just different. This is not uncommon for rifles in general.

My custom 40X benchrest rimfire rifle needs three rounds to settle in. Mine always puts the first three 1/2" to the left, about an inch high.