alright i tried searching sbr's and all i got was a few sales, so i figured i would ask my question to the masses. here goes..... If I were to register a lower as an SBR, say an AR10 with a 10.5 inch barrel, would it be legal for me to swap uppers for a longer barrel like a 20 incher if i wanted to kill paper from farther away? from what i have read about sbr's is that you have to do the paperwork to register the lower as an SBR, it doesn't say anything about the upper. so if i registered the lower, didn't have funds to buy the upper yet, and let a standard lenth upper ride around on it till i got the cash would i reamed for unlawful possesion ?
- Thread starter The Mall Ninja
- Start date
Re: SBR's... minor question
1. The lower is the registered part only.
2. You can put any size barrel on an SBR lower.
3. Even with a 16 inch or greater barrel, a registered SBR is still an SBR.
Hope this helps,
J2T
1. The lower is the registered part only.
2. You can put any size barrel on an SBR lower.
3. Even with a 16 inch or greater barrel, a registered SBR is still an SBR.
Hope this helps,
J2T
Re: SBR's... minor question
J2T is correct!
J2T is correct!
Re: SBR's... minor question
When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense.
When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense.
Re: SBR's... minor question
I'd do it even shorter than that, so I could use a 5" 9mm barrel.
I'd do it even shorter than that, so I could use a 5" 9mm barrel.
Re: SBR's... minor question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mtm87tx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so if i was going to SBR a 223 i would do minimum length 7.5? and i can still have a 10.5 and 12.5 as well? </div></div>
Correct, once your lower is registered as a SBR and you don't go under the minimun barrel length that you submitted on your form you can have as many SBR length uppers you want, as long as they stay with that registered SBR lower you are g2g. You can mix and match a 10.5", or a 12.5" or whatever you want.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mtm87tx</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so if i was going to SBR a 223 i would do minimum length 7.5? and i can still have a 10.5 and 12.5 as well? </div></div>
Correct, once your lower is registered as a SBR and you don't go under the minimun barrel length that you submitted on your form you can have as many SBR length uppers you want, as long as they stay with that registered SBR lower you are g2g. You can mix and match a 10.5", or a 12.5" or whatever you want.
Re: SBR's... minor question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense. </div></div>
Juicehead2004, not trying to break your balls but your are giving bad advice. ATF Form 1 does not specify any such "minimum barrel length" as you describe. It simply specifies "Length of barrel" ATF has ruled that an individual can make modifications to NFA weapons as long as they are not permanent. You can change calibers and barrel lengths as you see fit as they are not permanent changes. So if your Form 1 states 10.5" for your barrel length, you can still legally put a 7.5" barrel on your registered SBR. There is no seperate NFA classification for "Even Shorter Barrel Rifle"
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense. </div></div>
Juicehead2004, not trying to break your balls but your are giving bad advice. ATF Form 1 does not specify any such "minimum barrel length" as you describe. It simply specifies "Length of barrel" ATF has ruled that an individual can make modifications to NFA weapons as long as they are not permanent. You can change calibers and barrel lengths as you see fit as they are not permanent changes. So if your Form 1 states 10.5" for your barrel length, you can still legally put a 7.5" barrel on your registered SBR. There is no seperate NFA classification for "Even Shorter Barrel Rifle"
Re: SBR's... minor question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense. </div></div>
Juicehead2004, not trying to break your balls but your are giving bad advice. ATF Form 1 does not specify any such "minimum barrel length" as you describe. It simply specifies "Length of barrel" ATF has ruled that an individual can make modifications to NFA weapons as long as they are not permanent. You can change calibers and barrel lengths as you see fit as they are not permanent changes. So if your Form 1 states 10.5" for your barrel length, you can still legally put a 7.5" barrel on your registered SBR. There is no seperate NFA classification for "Even Shorter Barrel Rifle"
</div></div>
True. On my F1s and F4s, I just put "multi" (like caliber). Never had a problem.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense. </div></div>
Juicehead2004, not trying to break your balls but your are giving bad advice. ATF Form 1 does not specify any such "minimum barrel length" as you describe. It simply specifies "Length of barrel" ATF has ruled that an individual can make modifications to NFA weapons as long as they are not permanent. You can change calibers and barrel lengths as you see fit as they are not permanent changes. So if your Form 1 states 10.5" for your barrel length, you can still legally put a 7.5" barrel on your registered SBR. There is no seperate NFA classification for "Even Shorter Barrel Rifle"
</div></div>
True. On my F1s and F4s, I just put "multi" (like caliber). Never had a problem.
Re: SBR's... minor question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense. </div></div>
Juicehead2004, not trying to break your balls but your are giving bad advice. ATF Form 1 does not specify any such "minimum barrel length" as you describe. It simply specifies "Length of barrel" ATF has ruled that an individual can make modifications to NFA weapons as long as they are not permanent. You can change calibers and barrel lengths as you see fit as they are not permanent changes. So if your Form 1 states 10.5" for your barrel length, you can still legally put a 7.5" barrel on your registered SBR. There is no seperate NFA classification for "Even Shorter Barrel Rifle"
</div></div>
That is not what i have been told at all, i actually had this conversation with Henderson Defense Industries out here in Las Vegas two days ago and they told me exactly what i wrote above, that you have to have a minimun lenghth on your form and your upper can not be under that length, over that length is fine but under is not. Therefor he told me to put the shortest possible length barrel i thought i would ever buy just to make sure, because once you put for instance a 7.5" barrel you can not have anything under 7.5" or you are in violation. I specifically asked this question and he answered it very clearly and simply. And these guys are a class 3 dealer and manufacturer and know their stuff. So someone here is wrong, and i would rather go with the suggestion of a buisness who does this every day than from just anybody on the internet. I'm not trying to break your balls here either but i was just told something totally different than what you are saying. Maybe somebody is interrperting what the ATF is saying incorrectly,but i don't know.
And how is what i was saying "giving bad advice", if anything i am telling him to go the safer route than to just register a lower and then put whatever he wants on there. What if you are mistaken on this, then you will be giving him advice that could land him in a lot of trouble.
Me personally i would rather be safe than sorry so i'm putting down something short enough that i know I'm not gonna go under that barrel length and not take any chances.
Here is a link to Henderson Defense, they will gladly answer any questions you have about this subject, email or call them:
http://shop.hendersondefense.biz/main.sc
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When you register your lower as a SBR you have to fill in a minimun barrel length. Now you can put any upper you want on the SBR lower as long as it is not shorter than the minimun barrel length you wrote down on your paperwork. Longer is perfectly fine and legal. Hope this helps and make sense. </div></div>
Juicehead2004, not trying to break your balls but your are giving bad advice. ATF Form 1 does not specify any such "minimum barrel length" as you describe. It simply specifies "Length of barrel" ATF has ruled that an individual can make modifications to NFA weapons as long as they are not permanent. You can change calibers and barrel lengths as you see fit as they are not permanent changes. So if your Form 1 states 10.5" for your barrel length, you can still legally put a 7.5" barrel on your registered SBR. There is no seperate NFA classification for "Even Shorter Barrel Rifle"
</div></div>
That is not what i have been told at all, i actually had this conversation with Henderson Defense Industries out here in Las Vegas two days ago and they told me exactly what i wrote above, that you have to have a minimun lenghth on your form and your upper can not be under that length, over that length is fine but under is not. Therefor he told me to put the shortest possible length barrel i thought i would ever buy just to make sure, because once you put for instance a 7.5" barrel you can not have anything under 7.5" or you are in violation. I specifically asked this question and he answered it very clearly and simply. And these guys are a class 3 dealer and manufacturer and know their stuff. So someone here is wrong, and i would rather go with the suggestion of a buisness who does this every day than from just anybody on the internet. I'm not trying to break your balls here either but i was just told something totally different than what you are saying. Maybe somebody is interrperting what the ATF is saying incorrectly,but i don't know.
And how is what i was saying "giving bad advice", if anything i am telling him to go the safer route than to just register a lower and then put whatever he wants on there. What if you are mistaken on this, then you will be giving him advice that could land him in a lot of trouble.
Me personally i would rather be safe than sorry so i'm putting down something short enough that i know I'm not gonna go under that barrel length and not take any chances.
Here is a link to Henderson Defense, they will gladly answer any questions you have about this subject, email or call them:
http://shop.hendersondefense.biz/main.sc
Re: SBR's... minor question
You're right. I'm just a Federally licensed dealer and manufacturer who has done this hundreds of times. What the fuck could I possibly know?
I apologize for trying to educate you on NFA regulations.
You're right. I'm just a Federally licensed dealer and manufacturer who has done this hundreds of times. What the fuck could I possibly know?
I apologize for trying to educate you on NFA regulations.
Re: SBR's... minor question
When I did my Form 1 the sign off was delayed because I had written "less than 16 inches" on the barrel length.
After speaking with NFA branch I just had to send a letter stating my intended barrel length and then it was signed off, with an annotation at the bottom stating the barrel would be 10.5 inches (the box where the approving authority can add requirements). I was also told that I could change barrel lengths as I wanted, I would just have to send a letter to NFA branch stating what length barrel I was going to.
Thing with NFA branch though is they make things up as they go along. I have a letter from them saying I don't have to mark my lower with name, city, and state, but that I could put it on the barrel to facilitate going back to a non NFA weapon if I ever wanted to remove it from the registry.
When I did my Form 1 the sign off was delayed because I had written "less than 16 inches" on the barrel length.
After speaking with NFA branch I just had to send a letter stating my intended barrel length and then it was signed off, with an annotation at the bottom stating the barrel would be 10.5 inches (the box where the approving authority can add requirements). I was also told that I could change barrel lengths as I wanted, I would just have to send a letter to NFA branch stating what length barrel I was going to.
Thing with NFA branch though is they make things up as they go along. I have a letter from them saying I don't have to mark my lower with name, city, and state, but that I could put it on the barrel to facilitate going back to a non NFA weapon if I ever wanted to remove it from the registry.
Re: SBR's... minor question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right. I'm just a Federally licensed dealer and manufacturer who has done this hundreds of times. What the fuck could I possibly know?
I apologize for trying to educate you on NFA regulations. </div></div>
Don't get upset, it's like the guy said above that the NFA told him something totally different also. I think that is the problem here, the NFA tells people different things on any occasion. Nobody said you don't know what you're talking about, i was just saying i was told something different than what you are saying.And the people that told me are Federally licensed dealers and manufactures who have done this thousands of times also, are you saying they are wrong?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right. I'm just a Federally licensed dealer and manufacturer who has done this hundreds of times. What the fuck could I possibly know?
I apologize for trying to educate you on NFA regulations. </div></div>
Don't get upset, it's like the guy said above that the NFA told him something totally different also. I think that is the problem here, the NFA tells people different things on any occasion. Nobody said you don't know what you're talking about, i was just saying i was told something different than what you are saying.And the people that told me are Federally licensed dealers and manufactures who have done this thousands of times also, are you saying they are wrong?
Re: SBR's... minor question
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right. I'm just a Federally licensed dealer and manufacturer who has done this hundreds of times. What the fuck could I possibly know?
I apologize for trying to educate you on NFA regulations. </div></div>
Don't get upset, it's like the guy said above that the NFA told him something totally different also. I think that is the problem here, the NFA tells people different things on any occasion. Nobody said you don't know what you're talking about, i was just saying i was told something different than what you are saying.And the people that told me are Federally licensed dealers and manufactures who have done this thousands of times also, are you saying they are wrong? </div></div>
No, that's all true. ATF is a big part of the reason for all the confusion. Look at it like this - if you have a registered SBR with a 10.5" barrel, and your paperwork states "10.5 inch barrel" and you put a 7.5" barrel on it, what are they going to charge you with? Illegal possession of an SBR? That'd be pretty tough with a Form 1 or 4 in your hand.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: juicehead2004</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You're right. I'm just a Federally licensed dealer and manufacturer who has done this hundreds of times. What the fuck could I possibly know?
I apologize for trying to educate you on NFA regulations. </div></div>
Don't get upset, it's like the guy said above that the NFA told him something totally different also. I think that is the problem here, the NFA tells people different things on any occasion. Nobody said you don't know what you're talking about, i was just saying i was told something different than what you are saying.And the people that told me are Federally licensed dealers and manufactures who have done this thousands of times also, are you saying they are wrong? </div></div>
No, that's all true. ATF is a big part of the reason for all the confusion. Look at it like this - if you have a registered SBR with a 10.5" barrel, and your paperwork states "10.5 inch barrel" and you put a 7.5" barrel on it, what are they going to charge you with? Illegal possession of an SBR? That'd be pretty tough with a Form 1 or 4 in your hand.
Re: SBR's... minor question
I bought my Colt 6933 as a factory manufactured SBR and they come with a 11.5" barrel. My Class 10 dealer, who I got it from, assured me that an SBR is an SBR and that any length barrel can be used. Just adding another opinion.
I bought my Colt 6933 as a factory manufactured SBR and they come with a 11.5" barrel. My Class 10 dealer, who I got it from, assured me that an SBR is an SBR and that any length barrel can be used. Just adding another opinion.
Re: SBR's... minor question
I asked my examiner if I needed to notify NFA Branch of barrel or caliber changes and was told, "Only if is a permanent change". He actually seemed a bit annoyed that I even asked.
I asked my examiner if I needed to notify NFA Branch of barrel or caliber changes and was told, "Only if is a permanent change". He actually seemed a bit annoyed that I even asked.
