I am looking to get a new scale. Currently using a Frankfort pocket scale but want to upgrade to something a lot better. I am looking at either the A&D EJ 123 or tree HRB-103. Not dead set on either but something in that price range with those features. Don’t have a crazy large budget. I was wondering if anyone has used either of those and had any comments on which might be better and why. Thank you!
- Thread starter Sparky308
- Start date
Honestly, you'd be well served by saving the coin and getting the A&D FX120i. It's a couple hundred more, but if you decide to upgrade to some type of auto throw/ trickler later, you can. You might be able to find one a little cheaper in the PX.
A&D FX-120i - 122g x 0.001g
A&D FX-120i is the ideal scale for your reloading bench. Superior accuracy and speed, at an affordable price for this laboratory grade scale. Always in stock. $580.00 USD - Free Shipping to The Lower 48
ceproducts.shop
You aren't going to like this . . .
There is a SERIOUS issue with all of these look-alike Chinese scales. While all very sensitive scales will drift (from a zero), these scales drift quite a bit. The problem is made exponentially worse due to their solution to this issue. These scales all have "drift correcction" (read DRIFT HIDING) software that resets down to zero and does not show you the drift. The drift off zero IS there, and is constantly changing, but you will not see it. I have tested and returned three different scales, from $400 up to $700 (several years ago so add $100+) that showed this software.
The solution is to buy a new or, better yet, used REAL laboratory balance by Mettler or another REAL laboratory balance maker. While they will still drift, usually .0001g at a time, this is clearly seen and can be corrected with a tare after the reading is taken. These Chinese scales will have .0015g drift during a single weighing event which will quickly disappear as the scale shows you a false return to zero, while the drift is within your reading.
Lest you think I'm a China basher, I am absolutely not and will buy and recommend Chinese made shooting equipment sold at a fraction of the price of ridiculously overpriced US gun market stuff, especially rings, level bubbles, bipods and arca rails, when these show good value. Unfortunately these Chinese scales aren't it.
There is a SERIOUS issue with all of these look-alike Chinese scales. While all very sensitive scales will drift (from a zero), these scales drift quite a bit. The problem is made exponentially worse due to their solution to this issue. These scales all have "drift correcction" (read DRIFT HIDING) software that resets down to zero and does not show you the drift. The drift off zero IS there, and is constantly changing, but you will not see it. I have tested and returned three different scales, from $400 up to $700 (several years ago so add $100+) that showed this software.
The solution is to buy a new or, better yet, used REAL laboratory balance by Mettler or another REAL laboratory balance maker. While they will still drift, usually .0001g at a time, this is clearly seen and can be corrected with a tare after the reading is taken. These Chinese scales will have .0015g drift during a single weighing event which will quickly disappear as the scale shows you a false return to zero, while the drift is within your reading.
Lest you think I'm a China basher, I am absolutely not and will buy and recommend Chinese made shooting equipment sold at a fraction of the price of ridiculously overpriced US gun market stuff, especially rings, level bubbles, bipods and arca rails, when these show good value. Unfortunately these Chinese scales aren't it.
I've had an A&D FX-120i for a few years now. When I bought it, I also located and purchased a rather expensive certified 100-gram check weight.
Suffice to say I have found I VERY seldom need to calibrate it. I don't have an autotrickler (yet... maybe someday when I don't have to wait three months after ordering), so my process is to drop a charge a tenth or so light into a pan and manually trickle up to exact weight.
My point: I know the exact weight of the brass pan because it gets weighed at the start of every loading session as I zero the scale with the empty pan. If the displayed weight varies even 0.02 grains (scale limit) from the known weight, it's almost certainly because the scale is very slightly off-level, which can be seen via the scale's bubble level.
Once in awhile, just out of curiosity, I'll put the 100-gram calibration weight on the scale. If the displayed weight varies more than .001 gram from certified weight, I'll run the calibration routine. Last time I calibrated was last November (I tape the date to the side of the scale).
Drift? Only when heat or a/c disturbs air around the unit. Occasionally I'll see a drift for a few seconds that might go as much as 0.04 grains - but it lasts only a few seconds and returns to steady state (e.g., the scale reads 0.00 when I put the empty pan on it).
The only time this scale has ever thrown an error was when several kernels of stick powder accumulated under the tray. Error disappeared and did not recur after I lifted the tray and removed the powder. I now clean under that tray every few sessions.
Like a high-quality caliper, this scale is a one-time purchase that is a foundation element of precision handloading. I heartily recommend it.
Suffice to say I have found I VERY seldom need to calibrate it. I don't have an autotrickler (yet... maybe someday when I don't have to wait three months after ordering), so my process is to drop a charge a tenth or so light into a pan and manually trickle up to exact weight.
My point: I know the exact weight of the brass pan because it gets weighed at the start of every loading session as I zero the scale with the empty pan. If the displayed weight varies even 0.02 grains (scale limit) from the known weight, it's almost certainly because the scale is very slightly off-level, which can be seen via the scale's bubble level.
Once in awhile, just out of curiosity, I'll put the 100-gram calibration weight on the scale. If the displayed weight varies more than .001 gram from certified weight, I'll run the calibration routine. Last time I calibrated was last November (I tape the date to the side of the scale).
Drift? Only when heat or a/c disturbs air around the unit. Occasionally I'll see a drift for a few seconds that might go as much as 0.04 grains - but it lasts only a few seconds and returns to steady state (e.g., the scale reads 0.00 when I put the empty pan on it).
The only time this scale has ever thrown an error was when several kernels of stick powder accumulated under the tray. Error disappeared and did not recur after I lifted the tray and removed the powder. I now clean under that tray every few sessions.
Like a high-quality caliper, this scale is a one-time purchase that is a foundation element of precision handloading. I heartily recommend it.
@DownhillFromHere that is very good to know. I am not very knowledgeable about the scales yet but what is about the fx 120i that makes it much more desirable than others? I keep seeing that one come up. Just that is proven?
I have an A&D EJ-54D2.
In the menu you can select a couple different autozero protocols, including turning autozero OFF.
In the menu you can select a couple different autozero protocols, including turning autozero OFF.
I first read about the FX-120i here on SH and ordered from CE Products four years ago. There was a discount code (which no longer works) which dropped the price from a standard $745 to under $500 shipped. However, this link to CE Products' offering of the scale seems to show the standard price now at $580. Given inflation, I'd say this is a good price for a known excellent product.
For comparison: a buddy of mine used to be into bench rest. He used a big-$ Sartorius scale accurate down to 0.01 grains - he had some little tool he used to cut individual kernels of stick powder to get to that precision level. The FX-120i is good to 0.02 grains or 0.001 grams (one milligram). Given that most reloading experts will tell you that plus or minus 0.1 grains is essentially inconsequential in mid-power cartridges - think 6.5CM or larger - .02 grains is more than precise enough. A single kernel of H4350 weighs more than that.
Short answer to your question: FX-120i has proven itself to a large number of SH contributors. While I've read a few posts over the years concerning appearance/non-appearance of the "grains" measurement unit in the scale's menu, I do not recall ever seeing any complaints about drifting or accuracy.
Edit: At the time I got mine, it did not ship with a calibration weight. Having come from a research background, I prefer to have a known accurate reference for calibration purposes, so I paid the one-time expense for an ASTM class-1 weight (100 +/- 0.00025 grams). This showed my really cheap Lyman check weights were, um, significantly inaccurate... not enough to be a real issue for handloading, but not accurate either. Fwiw.
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If you disable the auto-zero function you will soon see the real drift your scale has. Not pretty. And, yes, I can cut a granule of Varget into small pieces and have the scale clearly show this. If you are not a high precision shooter, a less capable scale is probably A-OK. (I would still recommend a used LAB scale - Ohaus or Mettler.) But if you are a high precision shooter, or shoot long distances, you likely want your cases to +/- one granule. After throwing individual charges with my Chargemaster 1500 - with software modified to slow it down, every charge is then checked and adjusted using the Mettler. It is also an excellent scale for sorting rimfire ammo for benchrest and long range rimfire competition. I would never go back to a less capable scale.
Ambient temperature is likely the biggest contributor to scale "drifting".
Keep a stable temperature, and a stable vibration free platform and drift won't be a big problem.
I'm trying out Ginex SPR and find they have a wider range of high/low weight outliers than other primers.
Instead of cutting kernels of Varget, just find light ones and heavy ones and put them in pill bottles. Use one or two as needed.
Keep a stable temperature, and a stable vibration free platform and drift won't be a big problem.
I'm trying out Ginex SPR and find they have a wider range of high/low weight outliers than other primers.
Instead of cutting kernels of Varget, just find light ones and heavy ones and put them in pill bottles. Use one or two as needed.
@Rocketvapor do you like that using that scale? Do you find it is good enough?
How much does the temperature have to change to effect this?
@DownhillFromHere oh wow! That is a very good choice. Thank you for sending that over.
@Rider47 i wouldn’t say that I am a high precision shooter. But I do want to make higher quality ammo as well. Are those other scales you mentioned good quality still?
How much does the temperature have to change to effect this?
@DownhillFromHere oh wow! That is a very good choice. Thank you for sending that over.
@Rider47 i wouldn’t say that I am a high precision shooter. But I do want to make higher quality ammo as well. Are those other scales you mentioned good quality still?
First, you should really define your goal in terms of the kind of shooting you intend and the accuracy you expect. What do you really expect out of a new scale?
I'm not familiar with the scales you have interest in, just keep in mind that you get what you pay for. I seriously doubt these two would be any better than the Frankford Arsenal pocket one you have (assuming it's the DS-750, which I found does reasonably well for most shooting).
Before I purchased my FX-120i, I was getting pretty good results with a GemPro-250 (they're not made any more), but I was frustrated with effort it took to keep the zero from drifting to get consistent measurements. I did figure out a procedure to get the consistency I was after, but it added a lot of additional time for charging my cases. I decided to get the FX and it was way easier and faster to get my charging operation done. I mention this to give you some idea the kind of things you might want to be looking at in order to make your decision what might be of value to you.
Below shows a comparison I did to see how the four scales I had compared, mainly how they compared to the ChargeMaster-1500 with some different powders. As you can see at the far right, my DS-750 compared quite well with the ChargeMaster. But given the FX is more accurate and more consistent, you can see how much difference there was in this test.
@Sparky308
I bought the EJ-54D2 on sale from Scalesgalore ($357 shipped). Price is now over $450.
It is a load cell type scale.
It has less range than many milligram scales, 52 grams in the high range. It also has a low range of 22 grams with an extra digit displayed (counts by 0.2 milligrams, or 0.005 grains).
Since it's there I use the low range with the extra resolution.
I have a range of "Good" mass standards and have checked linearity, full scale, and zero drift with autozero OFF.
With a 20 gram calibration on the low range I have a linearity error of one or two counts (-) @ low grams values (1-5 grams) and a (+) count at 3/4 range, 15 grams. My main loads are around 30 grains. I can pick the calibration value and at 10 grams calibration it is linear from 1 to 10 to within a count.
AandD Specs:
With a good zero full scale should be very stable with the temperature coefficient of the EJ series higher than the FX series,
20ppm/C vs 2ppm/C.
Repeatability spec (Std. Dev not Extreme Spread) is 1 mg for both the FX120 and the EJ-54D2 (0.4mg on the low range)
Linearity, error at lesser values is +/- 1mg with the FX120 and the EJ-54D2 high range (0.6mg on the low range).
Repeatability for the EJ-123 is 3mg, Linearity for the EJ-123 is +/- 3mg.
A "Good" check weight near your target load is a good idea to verify you are not in a high(er) error zone due to linearity error.
I would run your scale with autozero turned off (if possible) to see what is going on behind your back.
Then turn it on after you have troubleshot any stability issues. A pan should ALWAYS return to zero with autozero ON.
I bought the EJ-54D2 on sale from Scalesgalore ($357 shipped). Price is now over $450.
It is a load cell type scale.
It has less range than many milligram scales, 52 grams in the high range. It also has a low range of 22 grams with an extra digit displayed (counts by 0.2 milligrams, or 0.005 grains).
Since it's there I use the low range with the extra resolution.
I have a range of "Good" mass standards and have checked linearity, full scale, and zero drift with autozero OFF.
With a 20 gram calibration on the low range I have a linearity error of one or two counts (-) @ low grams values (1-5 grams) and a (+) count at 3/4 range, 15 grams. My main loads are around 30 grains. I can pick the calibration value and at 10 grams calibration it is linear from 1 to 10 to within a count.
AandD Specs:
With a good zero full scale should be very stable with the temperature coefficient of the EJ series higher than the FX series,
20ppm/C vs 2ppm/C.
Repeatability spec (Std. Dev not Extreme Spread) is 1 mg for both the FX120 and the EJ-54D2 (0.4mg on the low range)
Linearity, error at lesser values is +/- 1mg with the FX120 and the EJ-54D2 high range (0.6mg on the low range).
Repeatability for the EJ-123 is 3mg, Linearity for the EJ-123 is +/- 3mg.
A "Good" check weight near your target load is a good idea to verify you are not in a high(er) error zone due to linearity error.
I would run your scale with autozero turned off (if possible) to see what is going on behind your back.
Then turn it on after you have troubleshot any stability issues. A pan should ALWAYS return to zero with autozero ON
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Funny story considering the FX-120i is made in South Korea. Feel free to continue........
World records will continue to be set by people overhwelmingly running FX 120i (or a Prometheus)
@straightshooter1 thank you! That is very good to know! I want decent accuracy out of my scale and loads. Having that data is awesome my thank you.
@Rocketvapor thank you. That is very good to know!
@DeathBeforeDismount thank yoy
@Rocketvapor thank you. That is very good to know!
@DeathBeforeDismount thank yoy
It's not even at a "cry once" price. You can get it from the sellers of the Autotrickler for just over $500. Why screw around? Just get the Fx120i.
