Rifle Scopes Schmidt & Bender + Scandinavian Arms = Bargain S&B 5-25×56 PMII

[Night Vision Viking]

Schmidt & Bender and Scandinavian Arms have teamed up to make a bargain S&B 5-25×56 PMII.​

They asked the German authorities and removed the "ITAR" features, and reduced the price in the region of €2,500.00.

You can now only take it 3 meters under water instead of 40(?), and you can not shoot .50 BMG with it.

The turrets are brand new, and focused for PRS and Long Range Shooting. I had a look at it at IWA exhibition 2023, and it felt like a great product. In fact, enhanced in the looks department. The optics are the same as the normal 5-25x.

What do you say?

Here are more images, full specs and details:

Schmidt & Bender + Scandinavian Arms = The Bargain S&B 5-25x56 PMII -

Scandinavian Arms. Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PMII this version is supposed to sell in the €2,500.00 region ($2,700.00). MSRP 2500.

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[jbell]

Seems strange to me to engineer in less durability in anything. I suppose it is no different than coming out with a new model, which technically this is, but it seems strange to me. I don’t think it is for me…

 

[Jrb572]

I’d like one for my 22lr but it’s still a bit pricey for that

 

[ChrisAU]

Seems strange to me to engineer in less durability in anything. I suppose it is no different than coming out with a new model, which technically this is, but it seems strange to me. I don’t think it is for me…

It’s not strange at all when it comes to cutting cost. It is extremely strange to market it as such and name it after the durability you’ve taken away from it. Like taking the crash safety stuff out of a F-150 and calling it the F-150 Low Survivability Edition.

 

[jbell]

It’s not strange at all when it comes to cutting cost. It is extremely strange to market it as such and name it after the durability you’ve taken away from it. Like taking the crash safety stuff out of a F-150 and calling it the F-150 Low Survivability Edition.

Agreed

 

[psharon78]

Seems like a less capable scope compared to the competition in that price range

 

[lash]

While the points above may be valid, I think that it’s great that S&B has finally taken steps to offer something for this market. I’ll venture a guess that they kept the same name to quell speculation regarding the glass ID.

I do think that their choice of the LRS tag (light recoil scope) will hinder sales here in the U.S. since perception is 90% of reality. Many will perceive that it is inferior to other scopes (see above comments), while still using scopes that never met the standards that the better S&B PMII meet.

 

[tangloppen]

Could it be, that it’s the same scope as the regular PM2, in a different package and with a different certification?
Production wise it would make sense.
Instead of having to make a separate line of glass, you just use the current line, and only alter the end assembly (turrets, magring and marking).

Someonea probably gonna make a comparison pretty soon…

 

[ChrisAU]

I do think that their choice of the LRS tag (light recoil scope) will hinder sales here in the U.S. since perception is 90% of reality. Many will perceive that it is inferior to other scopes (see above comments), while still using scopes that never met the standards that the better S&B PMII meet.

Exactly. You almost have to want to not sell many of them to come up with that name.

 

[FuhQ]

I wouldn’t stick it on a .50 anyway, so I’m honestly kind of intrigued. I saw no mention of a zero stop, but I’m assuming the LRS has one? I do like the new redesigned turrets.

Also, I think @tangloppen might be on to something… Why completely swap production? Monetarily that makes no sense. They probably just changed the few aesthetic things mentioned, and then simply rated (on paper) the scope for lower specs, to avoid the ITAR regs & fees, in order to drop the price point by over $1,000. I would genuinely be curious to know.

If this is the case, I’d give one a try. I’m really liking the new turrets. The old style ones were an extremely dated design, IMO. It is a welcome change.

 

[ma smith]

Why is reliability an ITAR feature?

 

[jh2785]

While the points above may be valid, I think that it’s great that S&B has finally taken steps to offer something for this market. I’ll venture a guess that they kept the same name to quell speculation regarding the glass ID.

I do think that their choice of the LRS tag (light recoil scope) will hinder sales here in the U.S. since perception is 90% of reality. Many will perceive that it is inferior to other scopes (see above comments), while still using scopes that never met the standards that the better S&B PMII meet.

Agree. When I heard "light recoil" I definitely wasn't thinking, "oh yeah, this must be everything south of 50 BMG...."

 

[jh2785]

So they also dropped the illumination? The turrets look great. I like the yellow rotation indicator thing that rises out of the top of the elevation turret. Very cool.

 

[spife7980]

I saw no mention of a zero stop, but I’m assuming the LRS has one? I do like the new redesigned turrets.

Article says it’s got a built in stop that’s one mil below your 0.




Reticle sorta looks like shit if they want to market to prs. Half mil is so 2000 and late

 

[tangloppen]

Why is reliability an ITAR feature?

Probably isn’t a question about reliability, just that .50bmg is a military caliber, hence if the proofing states “up to .50bmg”, it might get striked down.

Here in EU, .50bmg rifles is an illegal to own(not sure how far the ban stretches).
That only applies to that specific caliber, since there is no issue in owning a .510dtc, which was created to avoid the ban.
So, the 50bmg is a hot potato here, legally speaking.
So, with that in mind, it makes sense to remove it from the nomenclature.

Hope it makes sense.

 

[perttime]

...

Here in EU, .50bmg rifles is an illegal to own(not sure how far the ban stretches).
That only applies to that specific caliber, ...

I do not find a EU-wide ban on specific calibers. Member States have their own ideas, though, beyond what the "Directive 91/477/EEC on control of the acquisition and possession of weapons" says.

In most cases you do need to justify that you should be permitted to acquire and possess a specific firearm.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Huh?

I was in Munich in November. After VAT refund and conversion from euros to USD the base model 5-25 (P4f?) ran a little over $2300.

A watered down version at 2500 euros is..... less than exciting? What's the price stateside?

 

[spife7980]

Huh?

I was in Munich in November. After VAT refund and conversion from euros to USD the base model 5-25 (P4f?) ran a little over $2300.

Its 3k american https://www.eurooptic.com/schmidt-bender-pmii-5-25x56-l-p-p4-fine-mrad-dt-ccw.aspx

 

[enichols]

Seems a bit like Minox introducing their LR series as a less expensive "little brother" to the ZP5. Except that the Schmidt has a worse reticle and marketing.

 

[Night Vision Viking]

Seems strange to me to engineer in less durability in anything. I suppose it is no different than coming out with a new model, which technically this is, but it seems strange to me. I don’t think it is for me…

So you do a lot of shooting with your .50 BMGs? Or dive below 3 meters with your sniper rifle?

 

[jbell]

So you do a lot of shooting with your .50 BMGs? Or dive below 3 meters with your sniper rifle?

Maybe…

 

[Bakwa]

So you do a lot of shooting with your .50 BMGs? Or dive below 3 meters with your sniper rifle?

SWFA has always been a bottom tier option for me when considering glass for something, durability [etc], and it's rated for more than this new S&B. So I'm out...

 

[Mr.BR]

Probably isn’t a question about reliability, just that .50bmg is a military caliber, hence if the proofing states “up to .50bmg”, it might get striked down.

Here in EU, .50bmg rifles is an illegal to own(not sure how far the ban stretches).
That only applies to that specific caliber, since there is no issue in owning a .510dtc, which was created to avoid the ban.
So, the 50bmg is a hot potato here, legally speaking.
So, with that in mind, it makes sense to remove it from the nomenclature.

Hope it makes sense.

Where in EU are 50 BMG illegal?

They are very legal in many EU countries not only that you can go beyond .50cal , you can buy 14.5x114 guns

 

[jbell]

I initially did not post this because I do really like the PMII line of scopes and I did not come here to shit on S&B but out of the 6-7 PMII 5-25X56 I have owned 3 have failed to track. 2 of them were good for quite some time until one would not hold zero, the other developed tracking inconsistencies, the third scope had a mechanical problem with the erector assembly that was a machining issue from the factory if I remember correctly. S&B took care of each one without hesitation. I continue to purchase the original PMII after these failures, but a “reduced“ version of the PMII doesn’t exactly make me want to run out and buy one...

 

[CaptArab]

It’s not strange at all when it comes to cutting cost. It is extremely strange to market it as such and name it after the durability you’ve taken away from it. Like taking the crash safety stuff out of a F-150 and calling it the F-150 Low Survivability Edition.

I would SOOO buy the F-150 Low Survivability Edition

 

[357Max]

It weighs 1 oz more than the std. PM II?

 

[tangloppen]

Where in EU are 50 BMG illegal?

They are very legal in many EU countries not only that you can go beyond .50cal , you can buy 14.5x114 guns

Denmark.
As i recall, the ban came after pressure from EU.
It hinders new rifle permits in said caliber. But you can get one for 510dtc, and probably stuff larger than that.

 

[db2000]

Very few reasons I can think of to pay full retail as opposed to buying scopes in the PX.

 

[Bakwa]

It's the SHV of the Schmidt & Bender's.

 

[Mr.BR]

Denmark.
As i recall, the ban came after pressure from EU.
It hinders new rifle permits in said caliber. But you can get one for 510dtc, and probably stuff larger than that.

Politicians often 'cite' pressure from XYZ to cover their asses. 50BMG is very legal in most of EU. But yes countries have different regulations, in the past number of EU countries had limitations around 'military' calibers or guns, there was no problem buying a rifle in .50bmg . but we couldn't own a M2HB (as it is still in active service) , but could own a 14.5x114mm KPV HMG (which cost only cca 4000$ with the twin wheel lafette at the local gunshop)

 

[k-space]

Seems strange to me to engineer in less durability in anything. I suppose it is no different than coming out with a new model, which technically this is, but it seems strange to me. I don’t think it is for me…

Porsche did the same thing back when the 996 (internal designation) succeeded the 993. Both course were called the 911. A lesser vehicle to be sure but those cost saving measures saved the company from financial ruin.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Seems a bit like Minox introducing their LR series as a less expensive "little brother" to the ZP5. Except that the Schmidt has a worse reticle and marketing.

The LR is a lesser scope with inferior glass. Not the same thing.