Scope>Gun or Scope<Gun

[Golfnut721]

So me and a friend were debating the needs of a person shooting hitting nrl22x matches and rimfire prs matches.

What’s your school of thought and why.

Would you rather a top tier gun. Like a vudoo or a rimx and pair it with a Arken ep5 or a stroke eagle

Or

Have a cz or a b14r paired with a top tier scope. Think zco or razor gen3 etc.

Where do you put the money. The scope or the gun. And please don’t say both. We all know that the best gun and the best scope is the best combo.

 

[littlepod]

Gun first. So that I know when I miss it's all me.

 

[CBeck]

If I had a cheap rifle that shot well with my Zco mounted on it I could make it work. I can’t deal with lower quality scopes for matches at this point.

 

[moaorbust]

Scope first for me. A good scope will outlast several rifles.

 

[SniperBro]

Agree with Littlepod, although I can never seem to do anything other than pair top tier guns with top tier optics lol. Definitely costly! But there are so many sufficient scopes out there I would pick a top tier gun first to know the reliability is going to be there.

 

[Working Man Tactical]

Gun>ammo>glass, in terms off 22lr precision.

 

[littlepod]

For 22, I'm not struggling with mirage. To be honest I've done perfectly fine in matches with the Diamond Back Tactical. In CF, sometimes the mirage is so bad at 800+ yards that there's a very clear difference in seeing the target and not seeing the target when you're comparing a ZCO with like a Vortex PST. But for 22, there's not much mirage to deal with. Where the ZCO does stand out is clarity... shot out 1" targets that are gray, on a shot out gray t-post, on a cloudy overcast day can be a bitch to see.

But in general, most scopes are good enough assuming they track. Zane does perfectly fine with his Athlon Helos. He shoots a finely tuned Tikka T1X with Lapua X-Act though

 

[CBeck]

Beat up tiny targets in the shadows of the woods are easier to see with good glass. Being able to shoot a stage from 50 to 300 yards on 10-12 power while seeing bullets/impacts, never touching the parallax or going above a full revolution on the elevation turret is nice.

I shot a borrowed wrong handed rifle at a match this weekend but I put my scope on it.

 

[obx22]

Having a proven accurate rifle is paramount, then matching a scope/reticle (I place more value on elevation travel and reticle).
I purchased my first decent rifle, mounted what I had (a $65. discounted, possibly returned scope)sighted in one day, and excelled at the following days match. Swapped to my new favorite scope and the learning really began. I don’t foresee an upgrade to the “top shelf” glass as I don’t believe it will enable me to breakthrough some scoring ceiling, and I do not believe they will hold or appreciate in value the way Feckers, Unertl, and other barrel mount scopes have.

 

[M4orturnate]

Im not worried about glass quality for 22 prs. It must track perfect tho. I have a viper on my vudoo and find it sufficient. I would like a wider fov but the glass has never kept me from seeing trace, spotting misses or hit, or finding shaded targets. Now center i run a zco

 

[darth_ritis]

I'd definitely advise gun > scope. Depending on the optic, putting a $400-800 optic on a Vudoo might be a home run where putting a Tangent Theta on a 10/22 not so much.

 

[MarkCZ]

Gun first, then get a scope you like. I started with a Kidd Supergrade, then added a CZ 455, when added a Tikka T1X, then got a B14R, sold the CZ and got an other B14R. I played with different scopes. I have Vortex Strike Eagles on the Kidd and both B14R's. A SWFA SS 20X on the T1X. The B14R are my long range steel gun.

 

[Franko]

I would go with gun then optic for two reasons:

1. I don't expect to need really superb optical performance because the shorter ranges I expect to be shooting rimfire at
2. Rimfire ammo is already a bit of a crap shoot; so I want to know from the start that my gun isn't what causing my shots to act weirdly

 

[beetroot]

Depends on budget.
If we are talking a 2k set up then I'd say scope, If 3k+ then rifle first then scope.
This with the caveat that the rifle you get is at a minimum a T1x, CZ, B14r etc, don't under any circumstances go for a Savage/Marlin level rifles as you will get a very poor return on investment.

The market has changed a lot in the past 5 years, previously most people would've said get a good scope first but you can get some very competent scopes for the $500 market that won't hold you back.

 

[MDof2]

Date the rifle.
Marry the scope.

 

[JustSendit]

If your budget includes a Zco.. I’d say you have the money to get a supped up 455 and a gen ii razor. Shoot that’s in the buy/sale forum right now, I’d bet.

That being said hypothetically for the exact question, I would invest heavier into the gun.

 

[Lastsaint21]

For me it’s without question the gun first.. what good does it do if you see your misses but the gun is not repeatable enough to make adjustments off the miss?
Scopes are funny, when I started this sport, I wanted to stay in base class. I bought and MTR and a Cabelas Covenant Scope..I never noticed a thing wrong with that scope, then I moved up to the strike eagle, loved that scope too.. never noticed a thing wrong with it and actually sold it to a poster on this thread and he still uses it..Then I moved up to a Burris Pro.. again love that thing too..Just recently I went back and looked thru the Cabelas and it’s complete trash to look thru! CA all over on white targets, image is not clear would drive me nuts if I tried to use it now but before I knew any better…it was a fine scope..And I still don’t think either of the two ever cost me a match just wasn’t as pleasant to use.

 

[Gtar]

You need an accurate rifle and a scope that will let you see your hits. I'm pretty happy with my setup now, a Bergara with a K624i. It's won quite a few matches this year. The 50m parallax is a bit of a hassle on close targets but I just dial down the mag and it's plenty good enough. I ran a DMRii before this and it was pretty good, I just like the floating dot on the Kahles and the top parallax adjustment is much easier being a lefty.

 

[Tortuga]

I am running a Bergara B14r with a Kahles K525i, so I guess I am in the scope>rifle camp. My principle reason is I wanted to spec out for a super rifle and put a Bergara as a stop-gap for a Vudoo or RimX, but so far I am not found wanting.

 

[camocorvette]

Not reading through it all. It's without a doubt gun.
Don't matter if you have a zco on a Marlin Model 25.

If the gun doesn't shoot accurately and repeat that accuracy, you will not be competitive. You can only chase your misses so long before you get pissed and buy a better gun.

 

[E. Bryant]

All things in balance. Both elements of the equation must work or else one is wasting money on the more expensive component.

 

[Tsovern]

All things in balance. Both elements of the equation must work or else one is wasting money on the more expensive component.

There we go. Its a system and like any system, the whole is only as good as the weakest part.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I am running a Bergara B14r with a Kahles K525i, so I guess I am in the scope>rifle camp. My principle reason is I wanted to spec out for a super rifle and put a Bergara as a stop-gap for a Vudoo or RimX, but so far I am not found wanting.

I would probably be in this camp too. I've had plenty of CF rifles built around a scope. It may be an age thing with me, or vision issues, but I am done with lower quality optics.
But the ^^^ 2 posters above kind of nailed things.

 

[Tortuga]

It may be an age thing with me, or vision issues, but I am done with lower quality optics.

For me it wasn’t age or vision, I just got tired of my outings being ruined by bad optics and other gear. Consolidated some equipment and made quality glass a priority. Mil/LEO discounts help a lot, as does the Equipment Exchange.