Rifle Scopes scope level/cant help needed

[mrbig]

I been shooting a fair amount at 800-1100 with a Savage 338 LM,,which is gone thank God,and now with a Rem 700 Police,in AICS 1.5 with Jewell trigger and 4.5-14 LR/T M1 scope shooting 175 SMK and 45 grs Varget for 2725 fps,,I have had three of these scopes mounted on 4 different rifles and in dead calm I cant for the life of me get the scopes to track straight up,I seem to shoot about 1.25 MOA to the right for every 250 yards in range elevation changes,,

I cant believe the bases are off square on 4 rifles to the same degree,,it leaves me to believe the scope isnt mounted level,,or the reticle isnt exactly square with the turrets,,

I would love to be able to dial straight up 11 minutes at 500 yards and not need to put 3 minutes windage on an absolute calm day,,

I am debating on the Burris Signature Zee rings and try and put the 10 minute taper inserts in and twist them sideways and see if I can get the scope to track straight up,,
anybody have any advice?? I have even taken the rifle and scope to a smith with scope leveling tools and nothing seems to help,,

the way it is now shooting at 1000 I dial up 36 minutes and put in 6 minutes left and adjust for wind from there,,it is drivin me nuts,,

thanx for anybody that can help me out,
eric

 

[CoryT]

Have you tried a tall target test at 100? The question is, is this a shooter error or a mechanical one. If the turret has been leveled to the action, then the adjustments should group along a plumb line at 100, presuming no shooter errors. Setup a 6' tall target at 100, place an aiming point at the base of the target and shoot a few groups holding on that point with various elevation settings. Be sure the rifle itself is in fact level while you shoot. Place a plumb line though the groups, they should all be on center.

It's important to note that this test checks the TURRET for level, not the reticle. It's quite possible to have a degree or two of cant internally on the reticle itself, and if that is what the 'smith used to 'level' the scope then the adjustments will not track, but reticle holds will. You can repeat the test using reticle holds to confirm that it is level as well.

 

[Drifter™]

Random thoughts...

Instead of leveling the scope itself, try leveling the reticle (using the string of a plumb bob to assist).

If you're not already using an anti-cant level when shooting, one might prove beneficial. Otherwise, you may need to purposely cant the reticle to match how you hold the rifle.

Even in the absence of wind, you might encounter some spin drift due to the righthand twist of the barrel (though not to the degree you're currently experiencing).

 

[mrbig]

ok I am going out to shoot a 3 shot group at 100 yards and go up 10 minutes and shoot 3 and repeat until I get maxed out at 70 minutes and see how it looks,,

I would shoot 5 shot groups but I hate to shoot up 40 rounds at 100 yards,,

 

[CoryT]

3 shot groups and 20 MOA increments is plenty, every 10 is a waste of time and energy

 

[rocdoc]

My understanding is you would need to make sure the test is done at precisely 100y. If so, what is the measuring point at the shooter's end? The end of the barrel? The objective end of the scope? The Ocular end of the scope? The shooter's eye position? Does it matter?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Don't forget about bullet spin-drift.
I level the rifle via the scope base and then use a plum line to confirm vertical on the scope's reticle.
LG

 

[CoryT]

If we are just checking level, the yardage matters not at all, it's just the further out you go a taller and taller target is required , plus the unknown wind effect.

If we were trying to calibrate the reticle or turret, to the turret housing and +/- .5 yards.

 

[Lowlight]

Anyone who even uttered the words Spin Drift, let alone suggest it could be a factor should never be listened too.... Ever, you're welcome.

 

[rocdoc]

Thanks Cory. Measuring from the turret housing makes sense for calibrating the turret. I guess it doesn't have to be exactly 100y, but it also makes sense that you would have to know the true distance pretty accurately to calculate the correct calibration.

 

[mrbig]

ok today I took it all apart and mounted the 4.5-14 LR M1 in Talley one piece rings,,leveled the AICS on the Atlas Bipod and a rear bag on a concrete bench with a 4 ft level under the magwell of the AICS Chassis,,with the rifle set on the bench level I lined the scope up on a Redfield target at 100 yards leveled with same 4 ft level and tightened the screws on the rings without any movement,,now when I pick the rifle up it looks canted but when it is on a rest or on the ground on the Atlas it looks good,,

started with a cold clean bore at 100 and had to adjust down and right about 1.5 minutes and shot 3 shots dead nutz at 100 yards in one hole probably in the low .3`s,,adjusted up 11 moa and shot one shot that was maybe a half bullet hole the right of the line,,backed out to 500 and shot 5 shot group,,which was 1.6 inches top to bottom about 6 inches wide,,one hole dead on,,one about 2 inches right and 3 in about 3/4 inch 5 1/2 to 6 inches right,,with no windage adjustments,,

I think I am making good progress,,from the JBM dope the 5 shots at 500 were well within the conditions I was shooting in,,where before I would have had to put in 3-4 minutes to stay on the target,,

will order a scope mounted bubble level next time I order something,,

 

[Recreational Shooter WA]

I think what you are experiencing is normal. Checkout Lowlight's training video about leveling your scope, it's really good and practical advice.

But here's the skinny.

Hang a plumb line at about 50 yards or so.

Shoulder your rifle with your scope that has been leveled to the bore (sounds like that is how it is now).

Adjust the scope so it is level with the plumb line (this represents the fall of gravity and insures your scope when shouldered by you is level to the drop of gravity.

Or, you can use an ACD and hold all three level, but that's a pain in the a$$!

I shoot with a lot of high power silhouette guys, and many have their scopes are way off center to their guns, but the crosshairs are straight when they shoulder the rifle.

 

[Recreational Shooter WA]

I forgot to add that at 500, I would have to add .3 mils to adjust for the cant of the scope on a 308. Once I watched the training video, i realized my mistake. Since correcting, I've not had to add any windage (except for when it's windy )