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Scope leveling questions

blacklab1

blacklab1

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Sep 23, 2018
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I did a search and didn’t really find an answer. I’m putting together a .22 for MARS this year, it’s a B14r barreled action in a MDT chassis with a EGW 20 MOA base and vortex rings. It’s going to be fitted with a Vortex AMG. The problem I’m having is trying to level the rifle, I put the level on the base and it shows dead on, then I put the level on the rings and there off. Both of the rings and the base all show different readings. I’m assuming I should go with the base level, is this correct?
 

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Yes, the rings are tight. I thought the rings and base would line up.
 
blacklab1 said:
I did a search and didn’t really find an answer. I’m putting together a .22 for MARS this year, it’s a B14r barreled action in a MDT chassis with a EGW 20 MOA base and vortex rings. It’s going to be fitted with a Vortex AMG. The problem I’m having is trying to level the rifle, I put the level on the base and it shows dead on, then I put the level on the rings and there off. Both of the rings and the base all show different readings. I’m assuming I should go with the base level, is this correct?
Click to expand...
This is why I bought a Badger Ordnance Dead Level about 10 years ago. I swap scopes on my rifles A LOT, and have a lot of guns. I also mount and bore-sight scopes for good friends. So, for me, It's been a phenomenal tool, well worth the money (they were only about $169 back then). And it's nice because you level your optic in the rings, without having to worry about error of your gun not being level. You KNOW it's level in the rings when it's leveled on a Dead Level, no matter what angle your rifle is sitting at. And that's all that matters when setting one up. Plus, it makes setting up your bubble levels super easy, while it's already mounted to the DL device. You do everything on the DL, get it all zero'd, then strap it to the gun, and bore sight, then go confirm zero.
 
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FuhQ said:
This is why I bought a Badger Ordnance Dead Level about 10 years ago. I swap scopes on my rifles A LOT, and have a lot of guns. I also mount and bore-sight scopes for good friends. So, for me, It's been a phenomenal tool, well worth the money (they were only about $169 back then). And it's nice because you level your optic in the rings, without having to worry about error of your gun not being level. You KNOW it's level in the rings when it's leveled on a Dead Level, no matter what angle your rifle is sitting at. And that's all that matters when setting one up. Plus, it makes setting up your bubble levels super easy, while it's already mounted to the DL device. You do everything on the DL, get it all zero'd, then strap it to the gun, and bore sight, then go confirm zero.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more, I have one and it's great, and takes alot of the "frustration" out of leveling a scope, for me it's because sometimes I can be too "fussy".
 
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blacklab1 said:
Yes, the rings are tight. I thought the rings and base would line up.
Click to expand...

I think what matters is once the scope is in the rings and attached to the base, that you level the action and then the reticle? You can use the underside of the scope? however I prefer to level the reticle.
 
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www.brownells.com

OPTIC LEVELER COMBO KIT | Brownells

The Arisaka Optic Leveler is an inexpensive, easy-to-use tool for leveling scopes mounted in rings or one-piece mounts. The base plate sits on the Picatinny rail or one-piece mount just below the turret cluster of the scope, and then the matching ...
www.brownells.com www.brownells.com
 
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The level on the ring is not true to the ring. It’s offset, is the rifle level from muzzle to the butt too, or just side ways if that makes sense?
Here’s another trick! Put the scope in the rings snug enough to move but not enough to leave ring marks, dial it down and focus the reticle then tap the scope until the cross hairs divide the rear of the bolt evenly with your eye while in your natural shooting position. Tighten to specs and confirm with a tall target test that it dials straight up and adjust accordingly. Set your bubble to the scope with the rifle where ever it is in your natural shooting position. The time and distraction of fighting a bubble level from a rifle that has to be “reset” to a level position that’s not your natural shooting position after each shot isn’t worth it, its just unnecessary to me. It’s like trying to fit the rifle instead of the rifle fitting you.
Set it up where it doesn’t fit your position well and you’ll constantly be looking at your level and adjusting.
 
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Ravenworks said:
www.brownells.com

OPTIC LEVELER COMBO KIT | Brownells

The Arisaka Optic Leveler is an inexpensive, easy-to-use tool for leveling scopes mounted in rings or one-piece mounts. The base plate sits on the Picatinny rail or one-piece mount just below the turret cluster of the scope, and then the matching ...
www.brownells.com www.brownells.com
Click to expand...
I have one of these, too, but I've never been able to use it, because I use really low rings, and really large tube scopes. You have to use pretty tall rings and/or scopes with small tube diameters to be able to fit all the parts under the erector base of the scope between the rail and the scope turret body. But all-in-all, if you can make it work, it's a pretty genius little setup. I just always use a couple of nice Starrett levels and my Badger Dead Level...It's the most professional/precise way of leveling your scope, while removing any other form of error out of the equation.
 
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I wouldn't sweat the ring level AT ALL. Hell, none of us using Spuhr mounts are tryin to level the open mount, that's for sure. What matters is leveling the scope base, then obviously the optic itself, then for the ultimate verification check the reticle (which is what really matters anyway). I've goofed around with moving different optics between different rifles more than I'd like to admit for the last couple years and I just do it on a tripod. First I level the scope base and tighten down the tripod. Then the mount (or rings) go on, the optic goes in the mount/rings, then level by just putting the bubble level on top of the elevation turret. Then the scope bubble level goes onto the scope. Hasn't let me down once yet in a match, out to 1300 yards. I've only verified the reticle level a few times on a few different optics but have never had to make an adjustment based on doing so.
 
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I use a gun vice, string, washers, and a flashlight. Place rifle in the vice to hold steady. Mount the rail and rings. Place scope in rings and slightly snug. Weight both sides of the string, drape it over the objective, center the barrel between the strings. Remove the action if your stock/chassis is wider than the objective. That gets the centerline of the scope over the bore. Take the same string and hang from the ceiling to give you a center line. Shine the flashlight from the front of the scope to project the image of the reticle against the string. Rotate the scope in the rings to align the retile. Tighten. Inexpensive and has never let me down.
 
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Tokay444 said:
There is no expectation for that surface of the rings to be level. They don’t matter.
No, let me ask you this…. Is your level level?
Click to expand...
Yes, I checked it with 2 different levels, they both read the same.
 
There is no reason to expect that surface of the rings to be level. They have no bearing on the scope’s final level.
 
Thanks for everyone’s replies. I’ll finish mounting it tonight and try it out this weekend.
 
smoothy8500 said:
Sooooooo, getting the scope perfectly level might be for nothing huh?
Click to expand...
So am I over thinking this? I was told that the rifle and scope needs to be perfectly aligned so left to right impact stays constant at all ranges. Is this incorrect? Can the rifle be canted as long as the crosshairs stay level……as long as it’s done consistently?
 
blacklab1 said:
So am I over thinking this? I was told that the rifle and scope needs to be perfectly aligned so left to right impact stays constant at all ranges. Is this incorrect? Can the rifle be canted as long as the crosshairs stay level……as long as it’s done consistently?
Click to expand...

The effect of a canted rifle but plumb/level crosshairs is too small to be off consequence for most people. Possibly could matter at extreme ranges, but then there’s much more “noise” that matters and you won’t be able to discern.

Basically yes, there is some horizontal deviation…..but it doesn’t matter.
 
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blacklab1 said:
So am I over thinking this? I was told that the rifle and scope needs to be perfectly aligned so left to right impact stays constant at all ranges. Is this incorrect? Can the rifle be canted as long as the crosshairs stay level……as long as it’s done consistently?
Click to expand...

Yes you are. ;) You got the rifle level and scope level. You are good. Lots of articles and videos on cant and you can watch them to get some info but the way you have it set you are good.
 
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If your degree of cant introduced into the rifle is enough you can track it and discriminate from wind, then I suggest you get a adjustable butt plate. Most guys who cant the rifle and level the scope don’t introduce enough cant to matter.
 
blacklab1 said:
So am I over thinking this? I was told that the rifle and scope needs to be perfectly aligned so left to right impact stays constant at all ranges. Is this incorrect? Can the rifle be canted as long as the crosshairs stay level……as long as it’s done consistently?
Click to expand...
Yes, as long as your scope is mounted level in the rings, on a level base, then it is level.

And if you use a properly matched (leveled) bubble level on your scope, it assures your rifle is also being held at level with your scope, before shooting.

This is why I use the Badger Dead Level, and don't even mess with leveling the rifle, or mounting scopes while on the rifle anymore. It's too many factors for error, and too much of a pain in the ass to keep checking everything constantly...Even though I did it for years, and have all the tools. It's just exponentially faster and easier with the Dead Level. Especially if you own a bunch of rifle and swap scopes around pretty regularly, like I do.
 
FuhQ said:
Yes, as long as your scope is mounted level in the rings, on a level base, then it is level.

And if you use a properly matched (leveled) bubble level on your scope, it assures your rifle is also being held at level with your scope, before shooting.

This is why I use the Badger Dead Level, and don't even mess with leveling the rifle, or mounting scopes while on the rifle anymore. It's too many factors for error, and too much of a pain in the ass to keep checking everything constantly...Even though I did it for years, and have all the tools. It's just exponentially faster and easier with the Dead Level. Especially if you own a bunch of rifle and swap scopes around pretty regularly, like I do.
Click to expand...
That’s where I started to get confused…..I went to level the scope in the rings but the top of the rings weren’t level. It didn’t click until it was pointed out that you go by the ring base, not the top. I thought for what they cost they’d be a little more in square. I tried looking for a Dead level, but they seem to be out of stock everywhere. I leveled the rifle and scope with levels then double checked the scope with a string and both matched. Hopefully I’m good. I’m going to try and get out this weekend to see how it shoots.
 
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blacklab1 said:
I tried looking for a Dead level, but they seem to be out of stock everywhere.
Click to expand...

Short Action Customs makes a tool called the "Final Scope Level"
shortactioncustoms.com

Final Scope Level

NOTE: The Final Scope Level Assembly may have light machining marks from the machining process. There also may be slight imperfections in the hardcoat anodizing. This is normal and does not effect the function of the Final Scope Level.
shortactioncustoms.com shortactioncustoms.com
 
blacklab1 said:
The problem I’m having is trying to level the rifle, I put the level on the base and it shows dead on, then I put the level on the rings and there off. Both of the rings and the base all show different readings. I’m assuming I should go with the base level, is this correct?
Click to expand...

Level the scope to the ground
 
blacklab1 said:
That’s where I started to get confused…..I went to level the scope in the rings but the top of the rings weren’t level. It didn’t click until it was pointed out that you go by the ring base, not the top. I thought for what they cost they’d be a little more in square. I tried looking for a Dead level, but they seem to be out of stock everywhere. I leveled the rifle and scope with levels then double checked the scope with a string and both matched. Hopefully I’m good. I’m going to try and get out this weekend to see how it shoots.
Click to expand...
If you leveled the rifle both front to back, and then side-to-side, and then double-checked everything. And then leveled your scope in the rings, checked level while torquing the cap screws, then verified with a plumb-line you should be fine.

You might be able to get one straight from Badger Ordnance's website, have you checked there?

What I have found as a way to verify you scope stays level, but you level your caps, is keep one side tight, then level the rear cap, checking level with a small level on the turret constantly, to ensure it doesn't move, and then slowly torque your screws down 5 in-lbs. at a time in a cross pattern (left front, right rear, right front, left rear...And so on). Then keep it tight, and do the same for the front cap. Then your scope, bubble, and ring caps will all be level. This is where a Dead Level comes in REALLY handy, vs. dealing with all this on a rifle, sitting in a vise, where you can bump it and move it.
 
Doesn't have to be level front to back. Just side to side.
 
rijndael said:
Short Action Customs makes a tool called the "Final Scope Level"
shortactioncustoms.com

Final Scope Level

NOTE: The Final Scope Level Assembly may have light machining marks from the machining process. There also may be slight imperfections in the hardcoat anodizing. This is normal and does not effect the function of the Final Scope Level.
shortactioncustoms.com shortactioncustoms.com
Click to expand...
Man, that's nice, but I guess some folks just can't help but overly-complicate a very simple thing. 🤣
 
FWIW, doubling up on what others say. I use shop levels and stuff.

Rings, and even bases and so on are irrelevant. All you want is the reticle and tracking to be aligned with the rifle. So, a lot more check steps than alignments steps:
  • Level the gun in a vise. If nothing flat, level off the scope base.
  • Get a way to check level once the scope is on. As much as temporarily clamping or shimming something to the barrel or stock mounting.
  • Mount everything up. All should be tightened except the scope itself in the rings. Get tight enough it won't wobble, but still rotates.
    • (For STANAG, integral Picatinny, etc I still do all these steps as a check, just don't rotate the sight because you can't)
  • Double check the rifle level. You have been working, might have bumped it.
  • Level the scope off an external flat spot, like top of the elevation dial.
  • Tighten the screws for the rings, short of full torque (use the torque wrench, don't trust less-than-15 in-lbs to hand feel!)
  • Move the gun to a saddle on tripod. Point at a thing I'll explain in a minute. Move the gun in it until scope is level. Double check rifle level again.
  • Check reticle is level. I check vertical. Stick a laser level at the end of the driveway against the genset box, or similar. It makes a red line going vertical.
  • If your scope's vertical line on the reticle doesn't line up, double check everything else and if the reticle doesn't match, decide if you call CS or twist the scope (after loosening) to adjust to reticle vertical.
    • If off more than a tiny fraction, I'd for sure call CS. Seen them twisted 5° but... not from good brands mostly.
  • If you really care: check tracking. Make sure the vertical line on the reticle is exactly over the laser. Now dial elevation all the way up, all the way down. At each end, check if the reticle is still aligned with the laser. If the tracking mechanism is not inline with vertical, the line will be offset from the laser.
    • Again, decide what to do about that including return/repair.
  • Torque all to specs.
  • Double check all leveling. Bad rings or bad procedures on some rings can cause stuff to shift.
  • Remove temporary things, done.
Yes, I do this for pretty much everything. Even short range carbines, etc.
 
Rob01 said:
Doesn't help either though. Just work for the sake of work.
Click to expand...
I leveled the rifle every way possible…….I’m a plumber by traid so a level is an important peace in my toolbox😆
 
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Won't hurt anything obviously but not something you need to worry about as there is no issue with level if shooting up or down hills is there? Nope. Just canted side to side. ;) Having rifle sitting on bipod and rear of stock with a angle back is fine. Well unless its so much of an angle the scope slips in the rings. LOL
 
If you guys look at his pic, the level on the ring has a half a screw hole showing and none showing on the other side.
If rifle is not level front to back, his bubble will be off because he’s not squared up on that ring. His bubble is showing off. If it’s level in every way, front to back, side to side it won’t matter, if not it will matter.
 
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rijndael said:
Short Action Customs makes a tool called the "Final Scope Level"
shortactioncustoms.com

Final Scope Level

NOTE: The Final Scope Level Assembly may have light machining marks from the machining process. There also may be slight imperfections in the hardcoat anodizing. This is normal and does not effect the function of the Final Scope Level.
shortactioncustoms.com shortactioncustoms.com
Click to expand...
Nice looking tool….. Ordered one for tracking tests.
 
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mtrmn said:
I use a level on the base to level the gun, and then level the crosshairs looking through the scope at a plumb bob on a string.
Click to expand...

My issue with this method is scopes with minimum parallax at ~50y, I’m unable to get the string in focus when performing leveling operations in the basement.
 
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TheOE800 said:
My issue with this method is scopes with minimum parallax at ~50y, I’m unable to get the string in focus when performing leveling operations in the basement.
Click to expand...
Ah, hang the plumb bob from the target backer on a 100 yd range?

I too level the gun on the scope base then I hang a bob on the target backer at 100 yds and level the reticle. Seems to work ok.

Cheers
 
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