I have a Daniel Defense v5 .223 with M4 12" free floated handguard. I mounted Vortex PST 6-24x50 SFP on American Defense Ad Recon 30 mm mount with std 1.5" height and 1.9" cantilever with QD Lever. I mounted front of mount on rearmost slot on hand guard rail and rear part of mount on receiver. This puts eyepiece about 1.5" ahead of charging handle. I now have shot it enough that I feel more natural with not leaning forward with my neck but more upright. This puts my nose about 2.5" rear of charging handle. Scope has a 4" eye relief. Have few questions. Do I need to have both mount studs on only receiver? With my nose 2.5" away from charging handle, does that mean my shooting form is flawed? Correct length of pull for me is 13". I am getting different POI at different magnifications. I set up scope mounted where my nose was close to charging handle. But feels like I strain to get there. Lastly, my natural eye location wants to be about 1/2" higher than standard 1.5" above rail to center of rings. Just not sure if what feels "natural" to me is just plain wrong. Thanks.
Rifle Scopes Scope Mounting Location on AR 15
- Thread starter bbowles
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The scope mount or rings should be mounted on the receiver only (unless it is a monolithic upper, in which case the HG is the receiver) even with a FF HG. The rails are almost never in perfect alignment and the HG will move (flex) a little.
I find that with a typical 3.5" to 4" eye relief scope on an AR pattern rifle the ocular (eyepiece) ends up close to flush with the rear of the charging handle. I do not shoot NTCH (nose to charging handle) with an AR, I shoot it like I would any other properly fitting rifle, but that's just me.
Joe
I find that with a typical 3.5" to 4" eye relief scope on an AR pattern rifle the ocular (eyepiece) ends up close to flush with the rear of the charging handle. I do not shoot NTCH (nose to charging handle) with an AR, I shoot it like I would any other properly fitting rifle, but that's just me.
Joe
OP, it sounds like you have a few things going on with your shooting position(s), and it's a bit difficult to decipher what it is without pictures or first hand coaching you. First, your eye wanting to be that much higher than the 1.5" height is really unusual right off the bat. Are you sure you didn't mean lower?
The whole nose to charging handle technique is not for everyone, and quite frankly I've found far more shooters it doesn't work for than I have that it does. Adjust your position to where your head lies upright and relaxed, with you comfortably positioned behind the rifle, and keeping your head positioned in the same place looking directly through the scope with no shadowing.
The different POI at magnifications could be a parallax issue, could be you are muscling the rifle differently due to a change in eye relief, but that's again hard to say without seeing what it is your experiencing.
Finally to answer your main question, scudzuki is correct in advising you to have the mount only on the receiver. I really want to test this on my new Seekins rigs though to see if they can fully mimic monolithic capabilities. Maybe I'll have time for that next month...
The whole nose to charging handle technique is not for everyone, and quite frankly I've found far more shooters it doesn't work for than I have that it does. Adjust your position to where your head lies upright and relaxed, with you comfortably positioned behind the rifle, and keeping your head positioned in the same place looking directly through the scope with no shadowing.
The different POI at magnifications could be a parallax issue, could be you are muscling the rifle differently due to a change in eye relief, but that's again hard to say without seeing what it is your experiencing.
Finally to answer your main question, scudzuki is correct in advising you to have the mount only on the receiver. I really want to test this on my new Seekins rigs though to see if they can fully mimic monolithic capabilities. Maybe I'll have time for that next month...
I am so grateful for all your help. I will get you pictures of whatever you need to see. How do you post pics? Thanks again. I am new to AR's and to this forum. I reloaded for big bolt guns years ago and now getting back into all this with AR's. I have a lot to learn. Thanks.
My top of rail to ring center is currently 1.5". When I close my eyes with what I think is good cheek weld and open my eyes my line of sight is about 1/2 HIGHER than scope is set. I feel solid with top of MOE stock about at bottom of cheek bone just above my corner of my mouth. Also, I have got good 1" 100yd groups with Match factory ammo but when I dial my scope in with turrets they don't seem to have POI that I feel adjustment should have made. I would think that the PST Vortex should move about exactly 1/2" up if I dial it up 2 clicks at 100yds. But both windage and elevation is inconsistent in dialing up. But odd that groups pretty good.
I really think my cheek weld is not right but it feels most solid without any neck strain about 1/2" higher than the 1.5" now. But when I lean toward the right to get behind the scope it seems to strain neck slightly, not feeling natural but I can't move scope to left. So we have to lean into it some. I am probably just confused on proper form. Thanks again.
I really think my cheek weld is not right but it feels most solid without any neck strain about 1/2" higher than the 1.5" now. But when I lean toward the right to get behind the scope it seems to strain neck slightly, not feeling natural but I can't move scope to left. So we have to lean into it some. I am probably just confused on proper form. Thanks again.
From the pic, it looks as though you can mount the base directly to the receiver by placing the scope forward in the rings of the base.
Here are some pics. After working on cheek weld I believe I have been too high on the stock. When I do eyes closed test I think ring height about right for me. But I do think scope needs to be moved back fully on receiver for being more solid and think my problem with cheek weld has been that I was trying to lean forward to get correct eye relief. Think this will get eye relief correct without neck tension. 
Really bad index finger position.
Get the mount off the handguard. You shouldn't be bridging the handguard and receiver.
You can adjust for this by moving the scope in the mount.
You can adjust for this by moving the scope in the mount.
He's talking about how your grip is too high causing your trigger finger to come in canted to the trigger, not that your finger is on the trigger in the first place. Lower your grip down a bit until your trigger finger is squared up, then you can have better trigger control pulling straight to the rear.
And JohnnyC's advice to push the scope further forward in the mount is good. You have what looks to be about an inch of room to work with in there at least.
I see that my grip is too high causing canted index finger. Not sure if that has been way I actually shoot but will correct that. Thanks.
Interesting thing is I moved the scope mount to the receiver only and still grouped about the same 1 - 1.25 MOA at 100yds with factory match ammo. Didn't try dialing in different POI's which is what my concern was but will try to do that soon. Thanks to you all for the help to an AR newbie. I am really enjoying this thing vs my old Rem 700 bolt guns but am a little disappointed that not better groups but know that may be all it will do with factory ammo. I am wondering whether reloading will get lower MOA's since still have to stay within mag length cartridges for long range hunting. Not sure if will be worth the investment to reload for better groups or not?
Interesting thing is I moved the scope mount to the receiver only and still grouped about the same 1 - 1.25 MOA at 100yds with factory match ammo. Didn't try dialing in different POI's which is what my concern was but will try to do that soon. Thanks to you all for the help to an AR newbie. I am really enjoying this thing vs my old Rem 700 bolt guns but am a little disappointed that not better groups but know that may be all it will do with factory ammo. I am wondering whether reloading will get lower MOA's since still have to stay within mag length cartridges for long range hunting. Not sure if will be worth the investment to reload for better groups or not?
I use a Harris 6-9" bipod on my wood bench top. It seems to jump to left when shot. Am I setting up not square or is the rubber feet causing or is it me? With match factory ammo I get 1.25" 100 yd groups but seems like could be better without the jump. I have the Daniel defense referenced in first post. Thanks.
It sounds like you're not loading the bipod properly, and that is causing the hop. It sounds like you need some additional tips and training concerning shooting from a bipod. Try this here: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...d-hop-recoil-management-lesson-store-now.html
As for the accuracy, well you have a 1-2 MOA barrel when you get right down to it, so you're right in there and should be satisfied with how it's performing. Don't get me wrong, the DD CHF barrels are very good, but they're not a match barrel.
As for the accuracy, well you have a 1-2 MOA barrel when you get right down to it, so you're right in there and should be satisfied with how it's performing. Don't get me wrong, the DD CHF barrels are very good, but they're not a match barrel.
Redmanss,
Thanks alot for pointing me to site on bipod shooting. Also, I would agree that the DD is not match grade. Just trying to see what it will do. I am pleased that it shoots 1.25 MOA with Factory Match ammo. Getting ready to order reloading equip to see if can get more out of it. Then my plans are to either get match grade barrel for it or buy whole gun for long range work. Thanks again.
Thanks alot for pointing me to site on bipod shooting. Also, I would agree that the DD is not match grade. Just trying to see what it will do. I am pleased that it shoots 1.25 MOA with Factory Match ammo. Getting ready to order reloading equip to see if can get more out of it. Then my plans are to either get match grade barrel for it or buy whole gun for long range work. Thanks again.
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