F T/R Competition Scope Upgrade

[CharlieNC]

For longer range I have a Savage 308 with Bushnell 6-24 Tactical Elite that shoots well to 1000 yd; so this is my optical basis.

Recently got a Savage 223 that shoots <0.5MOA at 100 yards with 69gr SMK which should be fine out to 600yd. I want to start shooting Fclass matches in the area, which are primarily at 300yd. I have tried both Bushnell 10X tactical and Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 that I had available, and with both I cannot makeout the target cross at 200+ yards.

I'm thinking about a SWAFA SS20x42 for this to shoot 300-600yd and have a few questions:
- Will I be able to see the Fclass target rings ok?
- Not being a variable, is this likely to present mirage problems at these distances?

Thks.........Charlie

 

[fdkay]

Re: Scope Upgrade

The SS scopes are very well made, but do not have a reputation for clarity of the glass.

Since you are going to be on a known distance range and cost appears to be an issue, I would consider something like the Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 with the wide plex. This is not the PST, it is a SFP scope with 1/4" adjustments.
http://swfa.com/Vortex-65-20x50-Viper-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P10822.aspx

 

[pjparker]

Re: Scope Upgrade

Charlie

The SWFA SS 20x42 has cross hairs that are too thick to bisect the F Class .5 MOA X ring. (Ask me how I know) Take a look at the 300 yd F Class target through your Bushnell 6-24 and see what that looks like. It should give you an indication of what you are looking for.

In F Class power is your friend. A Weaver T-36 is what I shot for quite a while with the fine crosshair and 1/8 MOA dot. On overcast days it got kinda dim, though. I also have a Leupold 6.5-20 with the fine duplex reticle that also works, but the same scope with the standard duplex is too broad for F Class, to me. Sightron has a dedicated following as well as Nightforce in the higher magnification ranges.

Hope this helps, but for F Class, pass on the SS 20X.

Paul

 

[Jedi]

Re: Scope Upgrade

You do not want a FFP scope for a pure target rifle ie Fclass

SFP works way better, and will cost you less

Fine reticle, 1/8 MOA adjustments and your set

 

[CharlieNC]

Re: Scope Upgrade

I have a Weaver T36 on a different rifle, and the other day the mirage was terrible at even 200yds (yes, January with 40deg high); that is why I am asking about 20X. I am willing to spend more than the SS20X, but you frequently read a fixed power offers a better value than a variable for the same cost, which stands to reason. What is a good compromise between max power vs mirage for up to 600yd? Or am I expecting too much for a dedicated F-class scope.

 

[gstaylorg]

Re: Scope Upgrade

I'm running NF NXS 12-42x56 NP-2DD scopes on all of my F-T/R rifles. At 600 yd, I'll generally run the mag in the mid/low 30s unless the mirage gets severe. In that case I usually dial back the mag to the upper 20s. I used to do midrange matches at 42X (mirage permitting), right up until I crossfired in a match and came in 2nd instead of first. The crossfire was an "X". I learned my lesson.

At 42X mag, the field of view at 600 yd is small enough that firing lane markers are out of the field of view if they're above and behind the target, or off to the side. Unless you're willing to scan off the target every time, which presents issues in and of itself, running at very high mag in a midrange match can increase your chance of accidental crossfire. I've never noticed a difference in my scores when shooting at 42X versus 30-35X (or upper 20s). So for me, running the mag that high at 600 yd really isn't necessary. At the same time, I find going down to 20X or below does impact my ability to hold off and POA, so I keep it above that point. YMMV.

 

[BillCh]

Re: Scope Upgrade

CharlieNC,

You may want to check out a NF BR scope, a pretty good scope for the money. It's not as versatile as my NXS 12-42. It does an outstanding job of resolving .223 bullet holes at three hundred yards. Mine has the CH-3 reticle which, as far as I know, is no longer offered by NF but can still be found. I think a NF BR 12-42x56mm, CH-2 may be something you should check out. As fdkay mentioned, known distance target shooting doesn't require much of a reticle.

B

 

[CaptainCalf]

Re: Scope Upgrade

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm running NF NXS 12-42x56 NP-2DD scopes on all of my F-T/R rifles. At 600 yd, I'll generally run the mag in the mid/low 30s unless the mirage gets severe. In that case I usually dial back the mag to the upper 20s. I used to do midrange matches at 42X (mirage permitting), right up until I crossfired in a match and came in 2nd instead of first. The crossfire was an "X". I learned my lesson.

At 42X mag, the field of view at 600 yd is small enough that firing lane markers are out of the field of view if they're above and behind the target, or off to the side. Unless you're willing to scan off the target every time, which presents issues in and of itself, running at very high mag in a midrange match can increase your chance of accidental crossfire. I've never noticed a difference in my scores when shooting at 42X versus 30-35X (or upper 20s). So for me, running the mag that high at 600 yd really isn't necessary. At the same time, I find going down to 20X or below does impact my ability to hold off and POA, so I keep it above that point. YMMV. </div></div>

Thanks, this is great info on the NF scope. I just got one and plan to zero it this Friday afternoon at Manatee G&A Club here in FL. I'd recommend it to the OP even though I haven't used it just becauce it's a work of art!

 

[nesikabay]

Re: Scope Upgrade

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CharlieNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For longer range I have a Savage 308 with Bushnell 6-24 Tactical Elite that shoots well to 1000 yd; so this is my optical basis.

Recently got a Savage 223 that shoots <0.5MOA at 100 yards with 69gr SMK which should be fine out to 600yd. I want to start shooting Fclass matches in the area, which are primarily at 300yd. I have tried both Bushnell 10X tactical and Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 that I had available, and with both I cannot makeout the target cross at 200+ yards.

I'm thinking about a SWAFA SS20x42 for this to shoot 300-600yd and have a few questions:
- Will I be able to see the Fclass target rings ok?
- Not being a variable, is this likely to present mirage problems at these distances?


You have not said how much you have to spend. There is the new nightforce.OR the March scope

Thks.........Charlie
</div></div>

 

[CaptainCalf]

Re: Scope Upgrade

Charlie, they are around $2k, but i hear you can find demos cheaper...

 

[CharlieNC]

Re: Scope Upgrade

Thanks for all the good info guys. Sounds like a fixed power may not offer enough versatility, so I will look at a variable. For starters I will investigate a Sightron, which is as much as I want to spend for entry level.

 

[Matthewb45]

I used a swfa 10x on my first match wasn't quite the power I'd like but it was fine I just ordered the 15 x Looking forward to this weekend

 

[DropZone]

Charlie,

I started out this season with a Sightron SIII 6-24x50LRMOA scope. It is super clear and easily adjusts, not to mention affordable. My only real complaint was the dot in the middle is a .250moa which covers up a lot of the X at 600 yards. While I could have adjusted and used the top of the lower post below the dot, I opted instead to watch online for something else. I ended up getting a great deal on a March 10-60x52BR with a 1/16moa dot. If a knat was reading a knat sized newspaper at 1000 yards on a calm clear day, I'll bet you I could read it also. LOL! Well, that may be a bit of an exaggeration, BUT, the old saying is true, you get what you pay for, at least with March. I've owned NF's, Leupold, SS, Weaver, Burris, Sightron and several other brands over the years, but this scope takes the cake for clarity, precision and ease of adjustment...so far.

All that being said, if you are going to get a Sightron SIII don't do what I did. Get the 8-32x50 with the 1/8 dot or fine cross hair. Don't get the LRMOA for F-Class or you will be putting it up for sale or putting it on a different rifle like me.

 

[CharlieNC]

Well I bought a Weaver 4-20 X 50 Euro with 30mm tube and fine FFP cross-hair. It is very robust mechanically, and I can see the 22cal holes at 300yds! I am very pleased with it after a couple of months shooting. I'm digging the 223 and will probably upgrade the Savage barrel soon.

 

[lal357]

sorry i missed this post earlier on my fclass 223 that my son took over then my wife from him i use a vortex crossfire 8x32x50 fine crosshairs it has never been off and has never missed a beat son shoots out to 700 yds without a problem.i've thought about putting on another sightron 10x50x60 like i have on my 308 fclass gun but it wont die so far i have shot close to 3000 rounds with it on. is it NF or a sightron no but since i only gave 200.00 for verses 1300.00 for my sightron or 1200-2000+ for a NF i cant complain.

 

[Denys]

Well I bought a Weaver 4-20 X 50 Euro with 30mm tube and fine FFP cross-hair. It is very robust mechanically, and I can see the 22cal holes at 300yds! I am very pleased with it after a couple of months shooting. I'm digging the 223 and will probably upgrade the Savage barrel soon.

You can see the .22 caliber holes at 300 yards on an F-class target with a 20X scope? Well, either you have incredible eyes or you're missing the aiming black. I have a tough time seeing the 22 caliber holes when I'm pulling the target for an F-TR guy shooting a .223, and I'm a foot away.

 

[CharlieNC]

You can see the .22 caliber holes at 300 yards on an F-class target with a 20X scope? Well, either you have incredible eyes or you're missing the aiming black. I have a tough time seeing the 22 caliber holes when I'm pulling the target for an F-TR guy shooting a .223, and I'm a foot away.

Neither case Denys, I should have been more clear. For practice I am shooting at a 1" red bulls-eye on a white background so I can see what I'm doing. Wish my eyes were that good, but Lasik did help quite a lot!