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Seeking to avoid your "Reload Rookie" mistakes ...

rustyinbend

GySgt USMC 1976-1992
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Dec 9, 2018
    3,049
    3,230
    Bend, Oregon
    I am about to retire (Woohoo). I shoot primarily long-range with (mostly) 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 WinMag, although I also occasionally shoot my .308, .224 Valkyrie, 6.5 Grendel, and when I want to beat the crap out of my shoulder ... a .338 Lapua. I've only shot factory ammo, mostly Hornady AG or ELDM, and have gotten solid results with good hit percentages out to a mile (so far). And like everyone else, I've got a safe full of 5.56 and 300-BLK AR's and various caliber pistols (which I rarely shoot).

    My focus now is on long range shooting ... 1,000+ yards out to and beyond a mile, eventually getting into PRS competition form.

    Primary long range rifles are a Barrett MRAD (barrels in 6.5, .308, .300, .338), MPA 300-WMBA (.300), Tikka T3x TAC A1 (6.5), and LWRCI REPR MKII (6.5).

    I've only had time to shoot, not to reload, hence the factory ammo. That all changes soon.

    Here's my question to experienced reloaders: Given that profile, and knowing what you know now ... what are the biggest MISTAKES you made when you first got into reloading?
     
    Congrats on the retirement! My biggest mistake is over thinking the whole process. There are a ton of ways to skin a cat. Long as you are consistent in your processes, you will get accurate reloads. I read up on a ton of reloading books, would highly recommend this. Just don't overthink, and you will be fine.
     
    Make sure you are using the proper powders and primers for the cartidge at hand and a reloading recipe from a reliable source.

    NOT from some dumbass on the internet that is running a load at 10K psi above book maximum and claiming "no pressure signs"

    Assuming you ARE following an established recipe from a reliable manual, the one thing that reloading noobs often fail to do that can get themselves grenaded, is they fail to trim necks on their brass.

    Brass gets longer as you fire and resize it. In short order,(a couple firings) it can protrude into the area where the bullet sits in the narrower part of the chamber. So you are essentially crimping the case into the bullet when it is chambered. This can cause enormous over pressures with normally safe recipes.
     
    Make sure when you put your bussing into your dye it is secure in there. If it can float in the dye you will just push the bussing up and never actually resize the neck. learned this the hard way after "thinking" I prepped 300 pieces of brass.
     
    KISS, crawl, then walk and if you want then run. Get reliable data, keep good records of what you have done and how many firings on cases. Keeping good records allows you to then experiment with adding steps or taking away steps and seeing the result. Make one change at a time.

    Over the years I have looked to do less and less at the bench while keeping the same results. But records are the key IMO.
     
    in retrospect i think the most wasteful or inefficient experiences i've had to date in reloading relate to bouncing around too much....playing with too many powders and projectiles and primers....it just added too many variables to what should be a more logical step wise data driven process.

    i should have first researched a suitable projectile and powder and then systematically worked though the process with them. You can always add new variables later if you're not obtaining the quality of result you're trying to secure.
     
    KISS, crawl, then walk and if you want then run. Get reliable data, keep good records of what you have done and how many firings on cases. Keeping good records allows you to then experiment with adding steps or taking away steps and seeing the result. Make one change at a time.

    Over the years I have looked to do less and less at the bench while keeping the same results. But records are the key IMO.

    This. I only go once or twice a month most of the time. Trying to shoot 3-4 powders and a bunch of different charge weights. Then different cartridges. It can get confusing quick. A good way to organize your strings can be invaluable.
     
    When you build a load and get a good recipe for your weapon, buy components in numbers that exceed the barrel life so you will have same lot #s and won't be forced to change your recipe. (yes,over time you will chase lands and seating depths will change over time, even charge weights slightly, but components won't change) IE. Internet wisdom says you can get roughly 3500-5000 round on a 6.5CM barrel before its toast. I bought enough to load 1000 rounds. I should have stocked enough powder, primers, and projectiles to load up enough to burn that barrel out. I am thru those 1000 round and now with the shortages I am kicking myself because I am forced to change my recipe due to only being able to find certain primers, powders, projectiles. Which means I am doing all the load development work again, trying to find nodes, playing with components and it is frustrating because I have a load recipe that just flat out works on my rifle.

    Edit* Journal your reloading. I keep a journal/log book. Everytime I reload I write down what I did, how I was feeling, changes I made, tweaks to recipe. That written record has been invaluable to look back and re-verify what length I trimmed brass too, charge weights, seating depth.

    Biggest mistake I made reloading. Loaded a round without powder. Heard a pop while firing, stopped and found the round had been pushed by the primer into the lands. Didn't really squib it down the barrel, but could have been a bad day. Reviewed my log book. Guess who was reloading early in the morning while tired. Yep. this guy. Now I make sure I take a flashlight and look into each cartridge on the tray after charging all the shells with powder to ensure each has been charged with powder before seating projectiles. Quick and simple safety check.
     
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    Buy decent measuring tools.
    Learn to use them, measure new brass in critical areas, it eliminates surprises, Then measure fired brass to determine growth, then again after sizing.
    Buy quality components, and enough of the same lot#. Mixing even same brand brass of diff lots not wise.

    You will get all the help you need here, my one suggestion is listening to only those people who's philosophies align with yours when it comes to the final goal.

    I got caught up in the speed crowd when I first started, ignoring some very basic principles that one needs to know, both in shooting and at the reloading bench. Heck, I was shooting to 2000 yards within 9mos of my first LR rifle. Totally bypassing things that needed to be learned.
     
    If you are running a progressive....

    If there is a jam up....

    Unload the entire shell plate.

    Clear the jam.

    Repopulate the shell plate in the proper order to ensure you dont double charge a case.
     
    Test a small batch before committing to reloading a large volume of rounds. This one ties into using a reloading recipe from a reliable source. You'd think that the powder manufacturer would count and it does provided you are following the intended use, which wasn't always clear.

    My first mistake was trying to be as economical as possible and I found a .223 load using Hercules 2400 that fit the bill from their manual. Since I was following what was a proven recipe proceeded to load up 1000 of them. Upon my next trip out to shoot they wouldn't even cycle out of the Colt SP1 I had intended these to be used in. This load was intended for bolt actions and Contenders. After pulling all of those apart and re-doing them with a 4895 equivalent (that I tested) it left a lasting impression on me.
     
    Get a cam-lock bullet puller and make a stuck case remover kit. You will eventually need them, and don’t want to scramble to get this stuff when you have a case stuck in your die or suspect some rounds are loaded bad or had some bullets seated too deep.
    These fall into that ‘better to have and not need’ category.
     
    Accept that learning is a process and enjoy the journey. I reloaded tens of thousands of shotgun, pistol, and hunting rifle rounds before I started handloading for precision over a year ago, and I'm still finding helpful nuances through experience.

    Buy a good caliper. Based on input from a longtime friend & gunsmith, I use a Brown & Sharpe old-school one (not digital).

    While, oddly enough, I prefer a non-digital caliper, my A&D FX-120i digital lab scale is now high on my best-ROI list. The thing is rock-solid stable; I haven't had to calibrate it since I last moved my loading bench months ago.
     
    KISS, crawl, then walk and if you want then run. Get reliable data, keep good records of what you have done and how many firings on cases. Keeping good records allows you to then experiment with adding steps or taking away steps and seeing the result. Make one change at a time.

    Over the years I have looked to do less and less at the bench while keeping the same results. But records are the key IMO.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!!!!!
    Write every F*&%ing thing down, everything. Keep records like you're going to audited by the IRS. You'll think, "Oh, I'll remember that", trust me you will not. I reload like it's my job, I've invested tens of thousands of dollars into the hobby and nothing has served me better then a good notebook and a pen.
     
    I wouldn't consider all lessons learned the hard way MISTAKES. Regrets or things I would have done differently maybe.

    A mistake would be getting powders mixed up.

    I started out loading 223 at a friend's house and he's an old school meticulous high power match loader. Under his guidance I proceeded to spend 4 hours to
    produce 100rds. The next day at the range I spent all of about 5 minutes shooting those 100rds through my AR.

    Ended up buying a progressive to make more rounds faster. Went from meticulous case prep too bare minimum.

    And now shooting 6.5CM and 300PRC im back to a certain level of meticulous.

    Its a journey.
     
    Annealing, although it came late into my reloading adventure. Second worst mistake was my lab scale. Too accurate and unnecessarily so. Third, neck turning, plain unnecessary for standard chambers. Brass today is very good.
     
    let's see if i can help( with some cut and paste from the internet).

    Cannelures are grooves placed in a circumference of the projectile....in the black powder days it held lubricant to reduce the rate of bore fouling by black powder residue. In modern bullets, the cannelure provides a strong purchase for the mouth of the cartridge case so that when it is crimped onto the cannelure it prevents the bullet from moving either forward or backward in the case.

    a Roll Crimp is when the mouth of the case is rolled into the bullet's cannelure.....in bolt action rifles we generally utilize a tapered crimp

    hope that helps
     
    Keep good written notes. And don't UNDERLOAD when working up a starting point load. A light load will not seal and you'll get some blowback gasses.
     
    Pick up a book on reloading, preferably one focused on precision shooting that details the entire process step by step.

    Be meticulous and keep notes. Don't reload when distracted or preoccupied.

    Yup, measuring tools are your friends. Buy quality. The same goes for components. Stick with proven components that are listed in reloading manuals for your cartridges. Actually cartridge. I would recommend one load development project at a time. I'd start with the cartridge that is most expensive in factory offerings (.338?). That way you can maintain the fiction that you're saving money longer.

    If you have a factory load that is particularly accurate, well you've already shown that bullet can be accurate out of that barrel. Start there. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.

    If you're not sure, ask. Whether it's tools, process, components or what gives you the most bang for your bucks. There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers. Posting a question here gets you peer reviewed answers, the emphasis being the plural of answer. Put on your flame war filter (you can start one here and people get pretty defensive) and sort through the reasoning behind the answers. Thar's gold in them hills.

    Enjoy your trip down the rabbit hole. Keep ten fingers and two eyes.
     
    Lube. Don't forget the lube. Even if you are just setting a die up or adjusting it. It sounds like something you wouldn't forget, but when you are adjusting something, it's easy to just grab a single casing that isn't prepped.
     
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    When you build a load and get a good recipe for your weapon, buy components in numbers that exceed the barrel life so you will have same lot #s and won't be forced to change your recipe.
    ^^^^^^^
    This!
    Once you find something that works... buy primers by the 5K case... powder at least 16lbs at a time ( I typically do 32lbs)... and bullets at least 4K at a time.

    The cost is gonna hurt, no getting around it. But I am losing count of the instances I'm glad I did. Even if it all remains available, it never gets cheaper!

    Today I'm loading primers I paid $0.03 a piece for, powder that cost me $16 a pound, and bullets that cost me $0.09 a piece. I bought them at full retail price 8 years ago.
     
    Pick up a book on reloading, preferably one focused on precision shooting that details the entire process step by step.

    Be meticulous and keep notes. Don't reload when distracted or preoccupied.

    Yup, measuring tools are your friends. Buy quality.

    That way you can maintain the fiction that you're saving money longer.

    If you have a factory load that is particularly accurate, well you've already shown that bullet can be accurate out of that barrel. Start there. Don't try to reinvent the wheel.
    All excellent points of advice. Especially buying quality measuring devices. You have to be able to trust the data your instruments are giving you.
     
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    I am about to retire (Woohoo). I shoot primarily long-range with (mostly) 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 WinMag, although I also occasionally shoot my .308, .224 Valkyrie, 6.5 Grendel, and when I want to beat the crap out of my shoulder ... a .338 Lapua. I've only shot factory ammo, mostly Hornady AG or ELDM, and have gotten solid results with good hit percentages out to a mile (so far). And like everyone else, I've got a safe full of 5.56 and 300-BLK AR's and various caliber pistols (which I rarely shoot).

    My focus now is on long range shooting ... 1,000+ yards out to and beyond a mile, eventually getting into PRS competition form.

    Primary long range rifles are a Barrett MRAD (barrels in 6.5, .308, .300, .338), MPA 300-WMBA (.300), Tikka T3x TAC A1 (6.5), and LWRCI REPR MKII (6.5).

    I've only had time to shoot, not to reload, hence the factory ammo. That all changes soon.

    Here's my question to experienced reloaders: Given that profile, and knowing what you know now ... what are the biggest MISTAKES you made when you first got into reloading?
    My advice would be to read, read, and read some more. There are so many variables, action types, new and fired brass charateristics, headspace (a tricky one), barrel lengths, pressure recommendations (i.e. 50KPSI usual limit for AR15s), and then there's the arduous task, often very frustrating, of hunting for that sweet spot, which will differ for every gun. I'm 76 and been reloading since I was 15, (first centerfire was a Sako L46 in .222 Mag-wish I still had that gun, with a 12 power Unertl scope too!), and I still come across things to learn about the activity. You'll like it right away, or you'll think it a waste of time, but there's no greater feeling than to have your rifle put 5 shots in one slightly oversized hole! P.S.-watch where you put the buttstock-I've had both shoulders replaced, so my 338 Lapua and 300 WM days are over. Also, buy all the reloading manuals you can afford; they all will have something to learn about. The internet is a wealth of all kinds of info. Good luck and I hope you DO like it!
     
    -Buy quality equipment, it makes it less of a labor and more enjoyable.

    -Change only one thing at a time.

    -Remember: You reload to shoot, not shoot to reload. Don’t get so consumed that it takes you from actually enjoying shooting.

    As far as newbie mistakes... Make sure to tighten your die lock ring set screws sufficiently, that’s fucked me up many times.

    If you have a wet process in your loading procedure, make damn sure your cases are dry before loading, that’s fucked me up a few times.

    Don’t put carpet in your reloading room.
     
    Pick an easy caliber to reload. .308 or 6.5 cm, start there. Invest in a good quality set of standard dies, then later the more nuanced full length size bushing dies can be introduced. Stick to published data and document your loads, this will payoff in dividends. Invest in a good chronograph to test your loads for consistent performance. Lastly, patience.
     
    I am about to retire (Woohoo). I shoot primarily long-range with (mostly) 6.5 Creedmoor and 300 WinMag, although I also occasionally shoot my .308, .224 Valkyrie, 6.5 Grendel, and when I want to beat the crap out of my shoulder ... a .338 Lapua. I've only shot factory ammo, mostly Hornady AG or ELDM, and have gotten solid results with good hit percentages out to a mile (so far). And like everyone else, I've got a safe full of 5.56 and 300-BLK AR's and various caliber pistols (which I rarely shoot).

    My focus now is on long range shooting ... 1,000+ yards out to and beyond a mile, eventually getting into PRS competition form.

    Primary long range rifles are a Barrett MRAD (barrels in 6.5, .308, .300, .338), MPA 300-WMBA (.300), Tikka T3x TAC A1 (6.5), and LWRCI REPR MKII (6.5).

    I've only had time to shoot, not to reload, hence the factory ammo. That all changes soon.

    Here's my question to experienced reloaders: Given that profile, and knowing what you know now ... what are the biggest MISTAKES you made when you first got into reloading?

    Ok, first, you're WAY ahead of me in the hardware dept and the range you're shooting out to........kudos, you're an example to me.

    Ever since Obama got me into shooting ten years ago and then the kids gave me a Hornady reloading kit, I've been a diligent student of reloading for precision shooting........starting with 270 Win before moving to RPR 6.5 CM and RPR 338 LM. I feel very confident of my reloading abilities, while ever seeking to improve them.

    That said, the biggest mistake I made reloading? Getting into it solo, aka On The Job Training, with much time on you tube (a blessing) and forever acquiring equipment as I moved up in quality.......leaving so much equipment up on the shelves or under the tables. This might not matter as much to you, but I wasted for me a lot of money on stuff I soon left behind. I'd suggest trying to find someone who reloads who shoots similar to your capabilities and asking to learn from them enough to get started, whether you have to pay for it or what.

    A few pieces of equipment I'd highly recommend: The Giraud case annealer and the Giraud case trimmer........Doug knows how to do it. The RCBS Chargemaster (?, old man's memory), cheap one is about $300, pricier one with two tricklers is about $900. I've only had the cheaper one and it does wonderful work. It has it's own trickler and scales. Some people like to have it go so far on a load, then use an independent trickler to top it off. The "Dandy Trickler" is a fantastic little two speed device that works great for this.

    I use a Redding T-7 press, there are lots of presses. My original Hornady was great, if only one hole but with quick change inserts.

    Dies are important, and precision match dies with sleeves are great to use.

    Use good brass that will cycle well a few times before requiring annealing.......Hornady, Norma, Lapua and others.....

    Make sure to use the right primers, don't substitute a Large Rifle for a Large Rifle Magnum primer and such.

    Powders and bullets can be a little sketchy to find these days of Covid and record gun sales.......Usually you can use more than one powder for your desired bullet weight. Develop a suppliers list. Check with Midsouth if Midway doesn't have it. Etc.

    For REAL precision, learn the discipline of keeping all brass segregated not only by manufacturer, but also by lot and by number of times fired.

    I originally began reloading with the expectation it was going to save me some money. Soon I realized this was only true if I did not try to pay myself for my time. Now I reload because I feel much more confident with my own loads. One of these days I'm going to buy some good match ammo and take it out to compare to my own, see if I'm a good reloader or an illusionist. But I will admit I'm much more ready to go out and shoot 50-60 rounds when they've just cost me "supplies out of the closet" versus going and spending $30 per 20 round box!

    Good luck, hope SOMETHING here helps out a bit. Have fun!
     
    I used to shoot to reload. Always fucking with seating depth, trying different bullets, NOT KEEPING A LOG BOOK. So, over the years, especially after joing this site and soaking everything up like a dry sponge, I have been able to identify what my actual needs are, what my uses are for the ammo I make, and what It takes in my process and materials to make that happen.

    Now, after all the years, I can efficiently reload to shoot with a reasonably not-insane process that I actually enjoy versus kind of dreading spending hours at the reloading bench, not fun. I still spend hours at the bench, but now I know my purpose, use, and how the end product will perform... fun

    And... like others said.... find that bullet with 1 or 2 powders that make the magic happen. And just make a ton of that ammo. Experimentation is cool for a while, I'm fucking over it.

    I have a Tikka T3x TacA1 6.5 creed: start with Reloder 16, H4350, IMR4451 with a good quality bullet from Sierra, Berger, Barnes, ... it's gonna shoot. Don't chase the lands because she has a long throat (giggity).

    I dont shoot beyond book specs because its dumb, my opinion. PM if you want more info about load data, I'm reasonable
     
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    I used to shoot to reload. Always fucking with seating depth, trying different bullets, NOT KEEPING A LOG BOOK. So, over the years, especially after joing this site and soaking everything up like a dry sponge, I have been able to identify what my actual needs are, what my uses are for the ammo I make, and what It takes in my process and materials to make that happen.

    Now, after all the years, I can efficiently reload to shoot with a reasonably not-insane process that I actually enjoy versus kind of dreading spending hours at the reloading bench, not fun. I still spend hours at the bench, but now I know my purpose, use, and how the end product will perform... fun

    And... like others said.... find that bullet with 1 or 2 powders that make the magic happen. And just make a ton of that ammo. Experimentation is cool for a while, I'm fucking over it.

    I have a Tikka T3x TacA1 6.5 creed: start with Reloder 16, H4350, IMR4451 with a good quality bullet from Sierra, Berger, Barnes, ... it's gonna shoot. Don't chase the lands because she has a long throat (giggity).

    I dont shoot beyond book specs because its dumb, my opinion. PM if you want more info about load data, I'm reasonable

    Used to shoot to reload? That's rich.

    And totally agree: find the magic load, then make a ton of that ammo. Life gets so much easier.......and more consistently precise!
     
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    Used to shoot to reload? That's rich.

    And totally agree: find the magic load, then make a ton of that ammo. Life gets so much easier.......and more consistently precise!
    Shooting to reload and reloading to shoot are 2 very different philosophical angles. With pistol ammo, I have never done a "load workup" per se. But when I started with rifle ammo, I just kinda lost my mind and just tinkered and experimented for a couple years. Ended up almost losing interest because I was lacking consistency. Once I got my mind right and found a couple loads that worked well, then it's just minute tweaks of needed.
     
    Lots of good info here. If your gonna crimp factory crimp dies are a big help. My first run of .223 I crimped so hard it buckled the case at the top of the taper and some would not chamber. Keep all your notes threw a bunch away thinking I didn't need them anymore. Make sure you close drain on your powder thrower b4 adding powder (did that again today).
     
    @rustyinbend Not sure if already mentioned but get yourself a Hornady cam lock bullet puller, a set of collets for the calibers you will be reloading for and stick it in a basic single state press like the Lee Challenger.

    You will thank yourself (and maybe even me) later
     
    @rustyinbend Not sure if already mentioned but get yourself a Hornady cam lock bullet puller, a set of collets for the calibers you will be reloading for and stick it in a basic single state press like the Lee Challenger.

    You will thank yourself (and maybe even me) later
    Birds of a feather. I have my puller in a Lee press Classic Cast press.
     
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    Birds of a feather. I have my puller in a Lee press Classic Cast press.

    It has saved me so much time and aggravation.

    Developed a better load for my Mk11 last week so pulled 100 bullets out of rounds loaded with the previous recipe in like 5 minutes earlier today.
     
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    Don’t think you need to buy the most expensive dies and equipment there is. People frown upon Lee products because they are “only cheap”, but the reality is most handloaders (and particularly new ones) will produce ammo just as accurate or inaccurate regardless of how much their equipment costs.
     
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    At first I didn't have a system for tracking my brass -- mistake. Now I collect fired brass in ziploc bags sorted by mfgr, caliber, number of firings, and which gun fired it. Each batch gets a ticket, and the ticket follows through the brass prep process, with updates along the way. That way if/when I resume after a pause, I know where I left off. And after shooting, I can dump the fired cases into a batch of the same.
     
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    One more tip: Get you a Thumlers Tumbler, some lemishine and stainless tumble media. Makes even the nastiest brass shot through Mk18s look like new.
     
    Write everything down. Pen and paper is the best tool you have. Don’t believe 75% of the reloading how to for precision rifle on YouTube. Buy everything in lots. Don’t use more than one type of brass in a rifle. For instance if your loading for a 260 don’t use Winchester and Norma brass. Pick one and stick with it. Mixing brass Manufacturers will cause you a huge headache. Brass picked up at a range is garbage for precision reloading.
     
    Things I have now that I wish I’d gotten on day one, 20 something years ago: Hornady cam lock bullet puller, Little Crow Gunworks Brass trimmers, Forster single stage press, Lyman “stadium seating-style” cartridge blocks, Harrell’s powder throw, aluminum funnels, custom honed FL dies, long drop tubes, Lapua brass, micrometer seating dies, more bullets, primers, and powder because they used to be a hell of a lot cheaper.

    Things I’ve wasted money on: kinetic “hammer-style” bullet pullers, Hornady One Shot spray lube, RCBS lube and roll pad, moly coating kit (just don’t), assorted all-in-one tools, cheap Lee dies, Hornady brass, plastic ammo wallets, and probably a lot more crap I ended up discarding years ago.

    As has been said, keep good records. Get yourself some cheap three ring binders to file your reloading data. I use the white Lyman Reloaders Data Log books and keep the pages in the binders along with the corresponding targets if I have them. I slip them into clear plastic sheet protectors. Let’s me go back in time and find useful info.

    Also, don’t let yourself loose focus when dropping powder. Get into a rhythm and stay there, especially when loading for handgun cartridges. Easy to double charge if you get distracted with some handgun/powder combos. And don’t forget to prime your cases before you drop powder. Been there, sucks when it’s fifty 308 cases full of meticulously weighed 748. Good times.
     
    When you get different guns in the same caliber don't just journal by caliber...journal by rifle...even by serial number...can make a big mistake rifle to rifle depending on chambers.
     
    Write EVERYTHING down. Start slow and develop a solid reloading practice on basic equipment you will be surprised how good you can do on a old rockchucker and 505 scale. Then start upgrading to the fancy wiz bang gadgets. do research on everything nothing worse then spending money on a neck turning lathe and runout gauge to use them once and set them on a shelf to collect dust.
     
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    Do your on load development. Don’t take a load from a friend or on the internet and expect it to work. Do a charge weight work up until you find a node. Once the node is established do a seating dept test for groups. I start .003 off jam, then 006, 009,012. Let’s say 006 shot good then seat them at 007 and 005 if they do bad then scratch 006. You will end up like the guy who says he has to consistently chase his lands to make his rifle shoot. Let’s say you shoot a really good 1/4inch group 009 off jam. Load .007, 008, and .010 off jam. If they shoot good then there is your seating depth node no one talks about. I would load at .009 to give yourself wiggle room when seating bullets. Your group size will be forgiving. Because you stayed with it In the node. Also as the barrel wears it will be more forgiving on your groups because you are in a node. In my experience when the barrel wears enough to effect my group I may only move it .001 once for the life of the barrel. I have had to do it 2 times on barrel. Also had a barrel that I never touched the seating dept again after finding the node. It shot quarter inch groups for 1400 rounds before the barrel crapped and lost 100 FPS. This was just a reference you may find a node .040,.050,.060 etc. good luck on Quest