Semi cheap rifle + good stock

xBoostx

Private
Minuteman
Jul 31, 2010
23
0
40
Miami, Fla
Hello board, I am new to the gun hobbie and have been researching rifles lately, and want to make a good purchase. I have never fired a rifle. So this is where im at...

I am looking to get a rifle in .223, I have seen videos of this caliber being shot and recoil is pretty minimal.

I am looking at both R700's and Savage's, leaning more towards a Savage. I wanted to know if buying a cheap stock rifle of say a Savage 12 FV and then buying this stock http://www.xlrindustries.com/index.html would be a smart move. Biggest reason for me choosing that model rifle is the 26" barrel and .223 also price. Or buying a cheap r700 and buying a nice stock. Some one posted a link to a badass R700 stock that cost like 500-600 but dont remember the brand.

All in all i want a reliable, accurate, and nice rifle. What do you guys think?
 

generalzip

Supporter
Supporter
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Jun 30, 2010
    2,214
    640
    32
    Houston, tx
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    I'd go with the R700 sps varmint. It comes with a shitty stock but you will replace it anyway. There are more aftermarket parts and stocks out there for the Remington series rifles. It has a 26" barrel. Honestly, for a .223 26" is kinda overkill. Even for a .308 it is. I just bought a sps varmint in .308 and put it in a AICS 1.5 stock. The AICS runs about 835 shipping included. I highly recommend Adam at Bauer Arms.
     

    fdkay

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2009
    5,925
    2,693
    59
    Ingleside, Tx
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    You don't say if you have a budget in mind.

    I do NOT recommend the SPS varmint model, it has a 1-12" twist and you won't stabilize anything heavier than a 55 grain bullet. Not good for extended distance.

    You are talking about a 700 dollar stock there.
    Believe me, you would be thrilled with it, by all accounts they are an excellent stock.

    However, the 12 FV is a internal box magazine rifle, you will need to contact XLR to see if it will work (it should).

    You could look at the 12FCV, it is an accustock model with a detachable magazine. The accustock is not as sexy as the XLR, but it is a very good stock, though a pain in the ass if you have to take the stock off. This would be my choice if you wanted a longer barrel.

    You could also buy the standard 10FP and put it in a Choate tactical stock or a B&C varmint/tactical. You have to make sure you are buying the correct aftermarket stock, as Savage has two different configurations for their short actions.

    I would lean towards the savage, they tend to shoot better out of the box than the Reamington, especially the .223's.
    There are more options for stocks with the Remington.
     

    Zebra644

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 10, 2010
    723
    1
    44
    Ohio
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    If you are leaning towards a Savage you will have a shooter right out of the box. A lot of people discount them from the past and due to the barrel nut and recoil lug that Savage uses.
    If it does not come in a Accustock then make sure to change it out. There are a few aftermarket stocks for the Savage, i.e. Bell and Carlson, H.S. Precision, Stockade Custom Stocks, Sharp Shooter Supply, H.S. Precison. and McMillian. If I am not mistaken the 2 main points on the Savage is to make sure the barrel free floats, and bed the action, keep the recoil lug nice and secure. There are a lot more aftermakret parts for the Remington due to the way Savage has kept changing thier spacing on the bottom metal screws and the way they changed from staggard fed to cented fed to DBM fed rifles. Axeman here on the hide along with the other Savage shooters can help you out if you go with the Savage.The stock you are looking at looks intresting, make sure you get a stock that will fit the way you shoot.
     

    xBoostx

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 31, 2010
    23
    0
    40
    Miami, Fla
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    Thanks for all the replies. I did forget to mention budget. Im thinking of staying under $1500. Im sure a stock R700 or Savage would be more than enough for now since i have never even used a rifle. But i guess it would be true that a 26" barrel would be overkill for a .223 so a 22" 24" would be fine?

    I have read though on many threads and forums, stock for stock Savage is the way to go. But since i will eventually change stocks i really like the XLR. And if i do plan on changing the stock i should not get a accustock rifle.
    The AICS is very nice but expensive! Isnt there a stock for the R700 that looks like the XLR?
     

    BigDKC

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 19, 2010
    254
    0
    41
    KCMO
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    I did what your asking, well pretty much. I went with a model 10FCP-K and the XLR evolution and I couldn't be happier! See my post a few down on this subject.

    Frankly as far as I could come up with you have have about two price points for aftermarket stocks. $3-400ish and $600ish and up. It will come down to the features you want.

    As far as savage or R700, your going to get about 70/30 % response here on this forum I am guessing. 70% for the R700, and 30% for the savage. As the replies come in, the majority will favor the R700. Nothing wrong with that choice either. There are more aftermarket options available for the R700. But the current savage's are just as good a rifle if not better today. Either one will work out fine in the end.
     

    bohem

    PVA's HMFIC
    Commercial Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 6, 2009
    7,707
    1,955
    Southeast, PA
    www.patriotvalleyarms.com
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    Make sure that you get a 1:9 twist rifle, not a 1:12 like was stated above. This will let you shoot up to most 75gr bullets

    I have a Savage 12 that is in a $200 Choate stock, it will shoot overlapping holes at 100yd regularly (not every time, but regularly). A lot of this has to do with the shooter's capabilities and sometimes I'm really not on the game.

    If you get the Savage and a Choate stock, you'll still have money in the budget to put a good base, rings and a decent scope on top.

    Keep in mind that a $5000 custom rifle with a $39 scope will shoot like a $39 scope...
     

    BigDKC

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 19, 2010
    254
    0
    41
    KCMO
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    You can get the XLR for the R700, or just about any action out there as XLR will make it for you!! Check their site.

    The only thing to worry about with the accu-stock rifles is if you think you might end up changing your mind about the aftermarket stock you want. As outside the XLR and the newer Choate tactical, currently there are not any other options due to the bolt release design change. (that I am aware of atleast)

    So if you were on the fence about which aftermarket stock to go with I would stay away from the accu-stock model's. XLR however can do both accu-stock and non accu-stock savage stocks, as well as pretty much any other action available.

    Just as a heads up though, I would run the numbers on the xlr with the features you want, as they can get up there in price just like the AICS depending on how you want it configured.
     

    xBoostx

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 31, 2010
    23
    0
    40
    Miami, Fla
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    Thanks for all the help and info! I talked to Kyle over at XLR and he shed some more light on the subject. I have to make some calls to REM. and Savage. I am heavily leaning to the savage though simply because the Accutrigger.

    BigKDC i saw your build. AMAZING

    If i get the XLR i will do the DBM setup, 10 round clip, and rail kit for sure.

    And the gun has to be a 1 in 9"

    And the reason im so into getting the XLR is because looks is a big part in it. That stock looks like serious business LOL.
     

    Greg Langelius *

    Resident Elder Fart
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Aug 10, 2001
    9,037
    5,187
    AZ
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    As a beginner, you're maybe getting ahead of yourself. Don't feel guilty, we all did it at least once.

    I recommend the Savage 12FCV .223 as a good budget entry into the precision rifle arena; mainly because you have your heart so set on a .223. As Centerfire rifles go, it's very good for your purposes.

    But I really think you need, and need badly, to get a simple, reliable rimfire rifle with which to do the bulk of your learning/training/practice.

    I suggest the Savage MKIIF, a very basic, Plain Jane rifle, a Tasco VAR624X42M scope, and whatever economy rings and bases your local gun dealer recommends. Add several bricks of CCI Blue Box Standard Velocity Target ammo, and you're feet are solidly on the most excellent path, as my heroes Bill and Ted would say.

    Honestly, this approach will very likely buy you the most progress per buck.

    Greg
     

    fdkay

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2009
    5,925
    2,693
    59
    Ingleside, Tx
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    I get tired of posting this, maybe I should save it as a document and cut and paste everytime I hear this nonsense, no ones fault really, Savage does not explain it.

    There is NO difference in a Savage rifle with an accustock and any other Savage with the DBM center feed.<span style="color: #FF0000">
    <span style="font-weight: bold">THEY ARE THE SAME ACTION!!!!! The difference is the stock.</span></span>
    The Accustock has a wedge in it that when tightened applies rearward pressure to the recoil lug.

    <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">I SAY AGAIN, THEY ARE THE SAME ACTION!!!!!</span></span>

    Choate makes a tactical stock that is inletted for the DBM, here is a link, this guy did not care for the accustock, so he put his 10PC in a Choate Tactical stock:
    www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=317433

    Now, where are my meds???
    confused.gif


    ETA: fixy linky
     

    BigDKC

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 19, 2010
    254
    0
    41
    KCMO
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get tired of posting this, maybe I should save it as a document and cut and paste everytime I hear this nonsense, no ones fault really, Savage does not explain it.

    There is NO difference in a Savage rifle with an accustock and any other Savage with the DBM center feed.<span style="color: #FF0000">
    <span style="font-weight: bold">THEY ARE THE SAME ACTION!!!!! The difference is the stock.</span></span>
    The Accustock has a wedge in it that when tightened applies rearward pressure to the recoil lug.

    <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">I SAY AGAIN, THEY ARE THE SAME ACTION!!!!!</span></span>

    Choate makes a tactical stock that is inletted for the DBM, here is a link, this guy did not care for the accustock, so he put his 10PC in a Choate Tactical stock:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=317433

    Now, where are my meds???
    confused.gif
    </div></div>

    Actually there IS a difference, the bolt release was changed. It is no longer a lever on the side of the action. It was moved to a slider button down to underneath the trigger guard. This does in fact make a major difference when looking to replace the accu-stock.

    This is the bolt release on an accu-stock model:
    br1.jpg


    This is the old style side of the reciever bolt release on non-accu-stock models: (image courtesy of gunblast.com)
    MVC-006F.jpg
     

    generalzip

    Supporter
    Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Jun 30, 2010
    2,214
    640
    32
    Houston, tx
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't say if you have a budget in mind.

    I do NOT recommend the SPS varmint model, it has a 1-12" twist and you won't stabilize anything heavier than a 55 grain bullet. Not good for extended distance. </div></div>

    I agree totally. I completely forgot the varmint is a 1 in 12". While this is great for a .308, not so much for a .223. Take a look at the SPS tactical for the remington line. They are around 600 and come in a 20" 1 in 9" twist rate.
     

    WTW

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Feb 25, 2010
    359
    0
    37
    Lees Summit MO
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    I think for a new shooter starting out I would invest in a decent rifle it is up to you. (to me they are both about the same) I own both but I really like Winchester Model 70's but aftermarket parts for tactical shooting are not as common. You can find stuff for 700's and Savages on any street corner. If you are thinking of having it rebarreled, go find a decent shape used 700. To me the older ones are higher quality than the new ones. Put a good barrel on it and put it in a decent stock. Those stocks are very nice. For a beginner I would buy a little less expensive stock and spend the rest of my money on buying good glass and ammunition.

    I learned my lesson with cheap glass and mounts...A little more upfront will save you a lot down the road.
     

    fdkay

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2009
    5,925
    2,693
    59
    Ingleside, Tx
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigDKC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I get tired of posting this, maybe I should save it as a document and cut and paste everytime I hear this nonsense, no ones fault really, Savage does not explain it.

    There is NO difference in a Savage rifle with an accustock and any other Savage with the DBM center feed.<span style="color: #FF0000">
    <span style="font-weight: bold">THEY ARE THE SAME ACTION!!!!! The difference is the stock.</span></span>
    The Accustock has a wedge in it that when tightened applies rearward pressure to the recoil lug.

    <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">I SAY AGAIN, THEY ARE THE SAME ACTION!!!!!</span></span>

    Choate makes a tactical stock that is inletted for the DBM, here is a link, this guy did not care for the accustock, so he put his 10PC in a Choate Tactical stock:
    http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=5&t=317433

    Now, where are my meds???
    confused.gif
    </div></div>

    Actually there IS a difference, the bolt release was changed. It is no longer a lever on the side of the action. It was moved to a slider button down to underneath the trigger guard. This does in fact make a major difference when looking to replace the accu-stock.

    This is the bolt release on an accu-stock model:
    br1.jpg


    This is the old style side of the reciever bolt release on non-accu-stock models: (image courtesy of gunblast.com)
    MVC-006F.jpg
    </div></div>

    Concur with the difference in the bolt release, but the ACTION is the same. The screws are in the same place, the screw holes are in the same place.
    A DBM accustock model and a DBM non-accustock model will fit in the same Choate tactical stock.
    That is the reason I provided a link to the thread in reference to someone replacing the accustock with a DBM inletted Choate stock.
    Really a non issue if he is going with the XLR stock, I would just get a blind magazine rifle for that since it will use a different mag system.
    Plus, i think my link is dead, I'll try to fix it.
     

    xBoostx

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 31, 2010
    23
    0
    40
    Miami, Fla
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    Thanks again to you all for the info and help. I plan on shooting some rounds through the rifle i choose before switching it to the XLR. Do some rifles have better barrels than others?

    Im pretty set on the Savage and the accutrigger. After i talk to someone over at Savage and then XLR i will make the decision on the rifle model. I want to do this right the first time. I am in the car hobbie aswell and trust me i have learned that doing the setup you want from the get go is the way to go.

    As for as scopes and accessories are concerned i will be shooting it without one till i get the XLR stock. Then i will shop for a glass to match that beautiful stock. Which im sure is going to be another mission LOL. I have not researched optics AT ALL. What should i look into with a stock like the XLR?
     

    fdkay

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 27, 2009
    5,925
    2,693
    59
    Ingleside, Tx
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    For one, any model of rifle worthy of putting in an XLR stock does not have sights. So you will need to budget glass before the stock.
    You can research scopes for DAYS and still not make up your mind.

    I will give you my OPINION, these are not facts.
    If most of your shooting will be on a known distance range at your typical paper targets and some hunting involved a second focal plane scope with a plain duplex reticle will work just fine.
    If, on the other hand, you intend on shooting in tactical competitions at unknown ranges with moving targets where you will have to range your target, use holdovers and leads than a First Focal Plane scope is your answer.
    I am a budget guy with numerous rifles that all need scopes, I am now in a situation where I need good quality glass and a good tactical scope.
    I have several budget scopes including a Millet TRS-1, which for 300 bucks is a very good scope (for 300 bucks), I have a Mueller Tac-2 which is also a very good scope for it's price, I also have an older B&L elite 3000 (now Bush 3200) 3-12 scope, it is reliable, accurate and has pretty darn good glass. They are all SFP scopes (I have a few others laying around also). I am a big fan of Mueller, the glass is good and the CS is excellent.
    My work gun currently wears a Falcon Menace 4-14x, I am very pleased with the scope, especially for 400 bones, but I intend on upgrading to the IOR 3-18 FFP but don't call it snipers hide edition scope when money permits. It will be my first premium grade scope and I look forward to the day that I can get it.

    You have two routes you can take, buy cheap but good and upgrade later or spend big at the outset and put off your stock for a while.
    Cheap but good until your skills get better:
    Bushnell 3200 10x mil/mil usually about $219.
    Don't forget the 45 bucks for an EGW 1 piece base and 45 bucks for a set of Burris XTR (low) rings.

    For a few more bones you can get the 3200 5-15x tactical.

    Really good and will never need upgrading until you see a schmidt and bender or USO = Nightforce
     

    xBoostx

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 31, 2010
    23
    0
    40
    Miami, Fla
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    For now i just plan on going to the range and hitting targets. Maybe 100-500 yrds. I have absolutely no knowledge about scopes and what makes one better than the other. I have research to do.
     

    BigDKC

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Mar 19, 2010
    254
    0
    41
    KCMO
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    fdkay has given you great advice on optics!

    Just as an FYI, if you are set on going the XLR route, your current budget is not going to cut it. Not trying to be harsh but it is true.

    Just in the rifle, XLR Evolution, base, rings I have over $1700 and I didn't go with real high quality on the base and rings. I plan to upgrade those components later. That still leaves nothing to actually sight with on the range! Take out the folder option of the XLR and you can drop off $115 so your down to just over $1600. But at the very minimum just to get on the range with it you will spend $100 for a very very low end scope just so you can shoot it! so your back up to $1700 and change! Then when it comes time for a proper scope your looking at $300 for the entry level and WAY up from there!

    Just trying to help you be prepared for the reality of things!

    If I had to do it all over again, knowing then what I do now, I think I would have went with buying a Stevens 200 action, and building it up from scratch there. Its the same Savage action, and then you can pick your match barrel which will always be better then the stocker. Decide on a trigger either modified, stock or aftermarket. Then drop it all into the XLR and have exactly what you want, and my guess is at a few hundred cheaper to help offset the optics.
     

    savage110

    Gunny Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    Sep 21, 2009
    1,663
    0
    27
    USA
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    Id go wih a Remmy or Savage, and add a McMillan stock in your flavor, type it in on google and you will find there website.
     

    xBoostx

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 31, 2010
    23
    0
    40
    Miami, Fla
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    Yea i was adding up the stuff yesterday and it would defenitely be over. If i can piece together the rifle it would be MUCH better. I would buy a barrel, trigger, bolt and knob, stock etc. I didnt know if it would be possible. That might be a better way if its possible to do.

    Savage110, any reason to go with a mcmillan over a xlr beside preference?
     

    xBoostx

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 31, 2010
    23
    0
    40
    Miami, Fla
    Re: Semi cheap rifle + good stock

    BTW thanks for the info fdkay. That helped ALOT. i will be ready to start buying things soon!