I'm debating on a Sendero Contour vs a Medium Palma for my build. Going to order a Manners EH1 with the mini chassis on the group buy. I'll be using this for F Class matches and informal clanging of long distance steel, as well as a secondary use as a antelope/mule deer/caribou gun. With the Sendero contour hold point of impact for a 60 shot match, or am I better off going Palma Contour?
- Thread starter blackfoot
- Start date
Re: Sendero Contour
no difference
no difference
Re: Sendero Contour
I have several Remington varmint contours on several different calibers and have never seen a impact change. This with both factory barrels and customs in calibers 223,243,260 and 308.
I believe Sendero is usually the same to slightly heavy depending on the maker than the Rem Varmint so I think you would be good to go with either in my opinion and I don’t generally take my time when I am shooting so I know there have been times I have run 75+ rounds through my 308 in less than an hour and a half.
I have several Remington varmint contours on several different calibers and have never seen a impact change. This with both factory barrels and customs in calibers 223,243,260 and 308.
I believe Sendero is usually the same to slightly heavy depending on the maker than the Rem Varmint so I think you would be good to go with either in my opinion and I don’t generally take my time when I am shooting so I know there have been times I have run 75+ rounds through my 308 in less than an hour and a half.
Re: Sendero Contour
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no difference</div></div>
There's your answer!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no difference</div></div>
There's your answer!
Re: Sendero Contour
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no difference </div></div>
Well, I was looking for an answer from somebody with experience, but I guess you can chime in too.
JK
On a serious note, if that's the case, why all the heavier contours on your rifles?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no difference </div></div>
Well, I was looking for an answer from somebody with experience, but I guess you can chime in too.
JK On a serious note, if that's the case, why all the heavier contours on your rifles?
Re: Sendero Contour
I really like the Sendero contour. I think it is a great balance inbetween not to heavy and not to lite. I have used many LV and HV contours in the past and a few others. For me they are just to heavy and well more suited to bench and laying on the ground type shooting. The Sendero contour gives up nothing to the others and if for some reason you want to buy another stock or switch 1 out it is easier to find a stock with that barrel contour.
I really like the Sendero contour. I think it is a great balance inbetween not to heavy and not to lite. I have used many LV and HV contours in the past and a few others. For me they are just to heavy and well more suited to bench and laying on the ground type shooting. The Sendero contour gives up nothing to the others and if for some reason you want to buy another stock or switch 1 out it is easier to find a stock with that barrel contour.
Re: Sendero Contour
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackfoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On a serious note, if that's the case, why all the heavier contours on your rifles? </div></div>
Heat and heat dispersion, harmonics and strength but the biggest one is probably personal preference. The heavier the barrel the longer it takes to heat up and while I have not personally timed the difference it should cool faster as it has more surface area. I can shoot about 7-10 rounds in my 223 varmint barrel before that barrel gets warm and my m24 contour you can almost double that number. Plus it just seems my m24 contour has a wider window for the accurate nodes when it comes to powder charges. The down side is weight and balance of the rifle... And with that said, I doubt I will be getting anymore barrels heavier than Remington varmint/sendero contour in the future due to weight and balance.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackfoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On a serious note, if that's the case, why all the heavier contours on your rifles? </div></div>
Heat and heat dispersion, harmonics and strength but the biggest one is probably personal preference. The heavier the barrel the longer it takes to heat up and while I have not personally timed the difference it should cool faster as it has more surface area. I can shoot about 7-10 rounds in my 223 varmint barrel before that barrel gets warm and my m24 contour you can almost double that number. Plus it just seems my m24 contour has a wider window for the accurate nodes when it comes to powder charges. The down side is weight and balance of the rifle... And with that said, I doubt I will be getting anymore barrels heavier than Remington varmint/sendero contour in the future due to weight and balance.
Re: Sendero Contour
I thought the Medium Palma and Sendero contours were quite different, but the weight difference must mostly be in the finished length? So if they are both finished at 26" they look to be very similar. How about differences with the Palma vs heavier contours in an F Class application? Still no difference in accuracy for a 60 shot match?
I thought the Medium Palma and Sendero contours were quite different, but the weight difference must mostly be in the finished length? So if they are both finished at 26" they look to be very similar. How about differences with the Palma vs heavier contours in an F Class application? Still no difference in accuracy for a 60 shot match?
Re: Sendero Contour
From a few feet away the Rem. varmint contour or med. palma contour look the same. Some slight differences but nothing that is going to effect accuracy etc...
Rem. varmint contour and the Sendero are the same contour.
Take a look at our contour page and you can see the difference in dimensions on the Rem. varmint and palma contours.
http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/contours.htm
We've made the palmas with a longer breech and or the same with the Rem. varmints. We've made those with a longer breech and or a bigger muzzle diameter etc...you just have to tell us what you want.
When you look at the contour dimensions on the Rem. varmint contour. We do a standard .830 muzzle. I've seen factory Rem. barrels range from .820 up to .850. We do a .830 standard.
Why do some guys run a heavier contour barrel? It only effects the weight of the rifle. One guy might want a heavier gun etc...
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
From a few feet away the Rem. varmint contour or med. palma contour look the same. Some slight differences but nothing that is going to effect accuracy etc...
Rem. varmint contour and the Sendero are the same contour.
Take a look at our contour page and you can see the difference in dimensions on the Rem. varmint and palma contours.
http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/contours.htm
We've made the palmas with a longer breech and or the same with the Rem. varmints. We've made those with a longer breech and or a bigger muzzle diameter etc...you just have to tell us what you want.
When you look at the contour dimensions on the Rem. varmint contour. We do a standard .830 muzzle. I've seen factory Rem. barrels range from .820 up to .850. We do a .830 standard.
Why do some guys run a heavier contour barrel? It only effects the weight of the rifle. One guy might want a heavier gun etc...
Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels
Re: Sendero Contour
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackfoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the Medium Palma and Sendero contours were quite different, but the weight difference must mostly be in the finished length? So if they are both finished at 26" they look to be very similar. How about differences with the Palma vs heavier contours in an F Class application? Still no difference in accuracy for a 60 shot match? </div></div>
For the most part no difference in accuracy. My med. palma finished at 30" and is chambered in 6x47 Lapua will shoot flat .2xx's at a 100 yards and has shot sub 1/3moa out to 1200 yards in comps. It's mostly a prone rifle with sling but I did use it in the F-Class Champs back in 2009. I got many compliments from other shooters while I was shooting that the gun was holding sub 1/3moa at 1k yards.
Contour is mostly personal preference. For a serious F-Class open rifle the weight limit is 22.0#. My F-Class open gun now is a .284win. and the barrel is a 1.250" straight blank finished at 32" long. Has no taper. Accuracy wise no better than my 6x47 Lapua but with the added weight the gun tracks and rides the rests and bags better.
Later, Frank
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blackfoot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the Medium Palma and Sendero contours were quite different, but the weight difference must mostly be in the finished length? So if they are both finished at 26" they look to be very similar. How about differences with the Palma vs heavier contours in an F Class application? Still no difference in accuracy for a 60 shot match? </div></div>
For the most part no difference in accuracy. My med. palma finished at 30" and is chambered in 6x47 Lapua will shoot flat .2xx's at a 100 yards and has shot sub 1/3moa out to 1200 yards in comps. It's mostly a prone rifle with sling but I did use it in the F-Class Champs back in 2009. I got many compliments from other shooters while I was shooting that the gun was holding sub 1/3moa at 1k yards.
Contour is mostly personal preference. For a serious F-Class open rifle the weight limit is 22.0#. My F-Class open gun now is a .284win. and the barrel is a 1.250" straight blank finished at 32" long. Has no taper. Accuracy wise no better than my 6x47 Lapua but with the added weight the gun tracks and rides the rests and bags better.
Later, Frank
Re: Sendero Contour
The main reason the sendero contour is so popular is any stock maker can inlet to it, then any smith can (that knows what he is doing at least) can correctly face the rear of the barrel to a dimension that a perfect stock to barrel fit is achieved for esthetic reasons only.
When it comes to Palma contours, I can tell you straight up that the Krieger Medium Palma and the Bartlein Medium Palma contours are not the same - at least on the barrels I have from both. Bartlein's is a tad heavier, enough heavier that for my sling and coat use I would order a Light from them.
For true target guns, the stocks are usually inletted such that they will take a variety of contours as target shooters may tend to change up their rifle configuration using different contours for a whole variety of reasons but still retaining the one stock. ALL of my field use rifles AND my flat range rifles have oversized barrel channels and have had a variety of actions, contours, and chamberings in them over the years.
In summary, either contour will do the task you described. If you are trying to make that perfect stock to barrel fit, make darned sure the stock maker knows the contour and maker of the barrel.
Otherwise, get the stock you want USED with a nice fat barrel channel for a cheap price and shoot the sumbitch!!!!!!
The main reason the sendero contour is so popular is any stock maker can inlet to it, then any smith can (that knows what he is doing at least) can correctly face the rear of the barrel to a dimension that a perfect stock to barrel fit is achieved for esthetic reasons only.
When it comes to Palma contours, I can tell you straight up that the Krieger Medium Palma and the Bartlein Medium Palma contours are not the same - at least on the barrels I have from both. Bartlein's is a tad heavier, enough heavier that for my sling and coat use I would order a Light from them.
For true target guns, the stocks are usually inletted such that they will take a variety of contours as target shooters may tend to change up their rifle configuration using different contours for a whole variety of reasons but still retaining the one stock. ALL of my field use rifles AND my flat range rifles have oversized barrel channels and have had a variety of actions, contours, and chamberings in them over the years.
In summary, either contour will do the task you described. If you are trying to make that perfect stock to barrel fit, make darned sure the stock maker knows the contour and maker of the barrel.
Otherwise, get the stock you want USED with a nice fat barrel channel for a cheap price and shoot the sumbitch!!!!!!
Re: Sendero Contour
I really like the sendero contour. If you are going with a smaller chambering I feel a #5 contour is all you really need. With a stainless barrel anything over .150" in wall thickness is overkill in my opinion.
I really like the sendero contour. If you are going with a smaller chambering I feel a #5 contour is all you really need. With a stainless barrel anything over .150" in wall thickness is overkill in my opinion.
Re: Sendero Contour
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no difference </div></div>
What he said!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">no difference </div></div>
What he said!!
Re: Sendero Contour
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are trying to make that perfect stock to barrel fit, make darned sure the stock maker knows the contour and maker of the barrel.
Otherwise, get the stock you want USED with a nice fat barrel channel for a cheap price and shoot the sumbitch!!!!!! </div></div>
9H_Cracka is right, be sure the stock maker knows exactly what you are talking about with contures. I won't call out, but I have had the discussion that went like this:
"Sir, what barrel channel would you like?"
"I would like a Remington varmint or sendero conture barrel channel"
"Sir what is that exactly, I never heard of either one of those, you'll have to send it to me so I can see for myself"...
"O...K..."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H_Cracka</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are trying to make that perfect stock to barrel fit, make darned sure the stock maker knows the contour and maker of the barrel.
Otherwise, get the stock you want USED with a nice fat barrel channel for a cheap price and shoot the sumbitch!!!!!! </div></div>
9H_Cracka is right, be sure the stock maker knows exactly what you are talking about with contures. I won't call out, but I have had the discussion that went like this:
"Sir, what barrel channel would you like?"
"I would like a Remington varmint or sendero conture barrel channel"
"Sir what is that exactly, I never heard of either one of those, you'll have to send it to me so I can see for myself"...
"O...K..."
