Setting neck tension with Dillion

[Dschapp44]

Currently using a redding T-7 with a mix of Redding type S dies and competition sets. When I’m prepping new brass I use an expander mandrel and it got me thinking. When using a progressive I’m not as concerned with the number of steps as I’m not increasing the number of times I’m touching the brass or increasing my pulls on the press. I know that some don’t mind slowing down the process, but I have a young child and another on the way so increasing my efficiency if worth every cent. I’ll still prime on my Cps and seat on my T-7 so not worried about that aspect of switching to a progressive.

I know that was a long intro but I’m thinking about moving away from my bushing dies and going to just standard Redding or Forster FL dies with the button removed and setting my neck tension with an expander. Has anyone done this or have any input about my thought process? I don’t neck turn and don’t have any plans to so I’m thinking I’ll have better results setting the tension from inside the neck than with bushings as I’m currently doing.

My main shooting is PRS style and stop tinkering when my SDs get to 8 or under and centricity at .002 for a general idea of what I’m looking for in regards to results. I’m happy with the results I’m currently getting and don’t want to produce a lesser quality product, but always interested in improving my process. Thanks for the opinions in advance.

 

[spife7980]

Why not keep the bushing dies, select a bushing that’s .004 under your loaded diameter and then set final sized diameter with the mandrel?

 

[FishDr]

Good advice from Spife. There are several of us that do exactly what he described. Works great.

 

[47guy]

I stopped worrying about perfect ammo years ago...I’m shooting a BRX right now and use a whidden bushing die with the expander ball...I size .004 under loaded neck and the expander sets finally to .002...I don’t get the mandrel thing especially if your not turning necks and trying to cut loading time

 

[fxdrider]

I’m thinking about moving away from my bushing dies and going to just standard Redding or Forster FL dies with the button removed and setting my neck tension with an expander. Has anyone done this or have any input about my thought process?

I'm currently doing exactly that - have been for about a year, with good results. But what Spife said makes even more sense. Particularly since you've already got bushing dies. It would work the necks less than a standard FL sizer would.

 

[Sheldon N]

I’m thinking about moving away from my bushing dies and going to just standard Redding or Forster FL dies with the button removed and setting my neck tension with an expander. Has anyone done this or have any input about my thought process?

It works very well on a progressive. I found I get straighter ammo from a FL die compared to a bushing die, but either would work. If you can get the neck diameter of your FL die about 0.004 smaller than the diameter of a loaded round then that is a bit nicer, but is not necessary. I've used both dies from Forster that were custom neck honed to my spec (only costs $12 from Forster), and I've also used other dies that were not honed and are a couple thousandths tighter. The smaller dies do work the brass a bit more so you get a bit more work hardening of the brass and effort on the press from the mandrel doing more work the results are still good.

It doesn't need to be anything fancy. I had a friend come over this past weekend to help him with sizing 450 pieces of once fired Hornady 6 creed brass on a Dillon 550. Deprime station one, stock Hornady FL die station 2, and expander mandrel station 3. I didn't use a floating o-ring on the FL die, just cranked it down on the toolhead. I left him to size the brass and he meat fisted his way through as fast as he could pull the handle (a bit frightening actually). All the brass was done in about 45 minutes. I checked in on a concentricity gauge afterwards and it is all dead nuts straight... zero runout.

 

[RTH1800]

Expander ball will stretch necks.

 

[FishDr]

The smaller dies do work the brass a bit more so you get a bit more work hardening of the brass and effort on the press

Would annealing solve this? If so, I may go to standard dies myself. Been looking for some Forster 6mm Creedmoor dies but no luck yet.

 

[Sheldon N]

Would annealing solve this? If so, I may go to standard dies myself. Been looking for some Forster 6mm Creedmoor dies but no luck yet.

Yes, I anneal every firing so it's a non issue really.

Surprisingly the Hornady 6 Creedmoor factory dies were almost perfect neck tension with hornady brass. Taking out the expander ball I think they sized it only 0.001-0.002 smaller than final dimension once set with a mandrel. I want to say they sized it to .266 and the final dimension was .267 when set to 0.002 neck tension with a mandrel.

 

[FishDr]

Thanks. I just bought a bulk of Peterson SRP brass. Any idea what to expect with those using the dies you mention?

 

[Sheldon N]

Any idea what to expect with those using the dies you mention?

Depends on the neck thickness of the brass. You should get similar exerior sized dimensions, but don't know how that correlates to the ID of the neck factoring in brass thickness.

 

[RTH1800]

What you are doing is producing the results you want. I am doubtful the change will do as well. Also not sure you will be saving time switching presses, trimming brass, annealing etc.

When you start dragging that expander ball out that compressed neck you will be stretching cases.

 

[Dschapp44]

Why not keep the bushing dies, select a bushing that’s .004 under your loaded diameter and then set final sized diameter with the mandrel?

Thanks for the suggestion. Since I already have them it's probably cheapest and easiest just to swap out the bushing for my uses.

 

[Dschapp44]

I stopped worrying about perfect ammo years ago...I’m shooting a BRX right now and use a whidden bushing die with the expander ball...I size .004 under loaded neck and the expander sets finally to .002...I don’t get the mandrel thing especially if your not turning necks and trying to cut loading time

I don't think it would add time since it would be an open stage on a progressive and in regards to not turning necks, even when using lapua brass there can still be small changes in neck thickness which could change the seating pressure needed when just using a bushing compared to setting the tension from the inside. I think were both would be getting similar results, I would just be using a separate expander stage compared to the expander button in the whidden dies

 

[47guy]

ok on a progressive...i was thinking in terms of a single stage.

 

[47guy]

When you start dragging that expander ball out that compressed neck you will be stretching cases.

ive never had this happen and ive been using the expander ball for years.

 

[RTH1800]

Ok, as long as its working for you.

 

[spife7980]

ive never had this happen and ive been using the expander ball for years.

Ok, as long as its working for you.

The only time I have noticed expander balls giving me issues dragging in the neck was when I wasnt getting lube inside the necks. Started purposefully putting lube inside the neck and the ball has glided through easy ever since. Shoulder measures the same with the ball in or out when lubed thus far.

 

[47guy]

The only time I have noticed expander balls giving me issues dragging in the neck was when I wasnt getting lube inside the necks. Started purposefully putting lube inside the neck and the ball has glided through easy ever since. Shoulder measures the same with the ball in or out when lubed thus far.
View attachment 7037511

the only time ive had issues with an expander ball is with doughnuts...i take the whidden balls and turn them with a drill and 400 grit then finish them up with 2000 grit for a total of .001 off the ball....you can see yourself in them lol...i use lanolin and alcohol and make sure i get some in some of the necks.

 

[47guy]

Ok, as long as its working for you.

i was not trying to be a smartass i was just saying ive never had an issue.

 

[RTH1800]

Understand, I was not either. No offense taken.
I do not lube inside neck or modify the expanders.
I have had issues with powder sticking inside neck and making a mess.
Oddly enough, I lightly lube bullets with sizing wax prior to seating. I think it’s lowering SD’s