Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

donws2

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Remington 40XB Accuracy Test

Group measurements are from center to center of extreme spread. All groups are five shots.

Equipment:
Rifle stock 40XB except for trigger reworked and trigger weight spring replacement.
Redfield Palma rear sight and Olympic front sight.
Caldwell front rest and Eagle rear bag.
Rifle held tight and not free recoil.

Conditions:
Temperature 90+ deg. F
Wind 1 to 3 knots from 1 to 2 O’clock
Humidity approx. 90%+
Sky light over cast
Time 10:00 to 11:00 am

100 Yards

Ammo: Lapua Polar Biathlon
Group #1 .650
Group #2 .775
DSC03974.jpg


50 Yards
DSC03980.jpg


Ammo: Eley Tenex (Old Style Round Bullet)
Group # 1 .385
Group #2 .400
DSC03976.jpg


Ammo: Wolf Match Target
Group #1 .355
Group #2 .495
DSC03977.jpg


Ammo: Lapua Midas – L
Group #1 .190
Ammo: Lapua Polar Biathlon
Group #2 .115
DSC03983.jpg


I find it interesting that the best (most expensive) ammo did no better than the cheapest. The two middle of the road target loads was heads above the other two. Goes to show that you never know what a 22 will like.

Donald
 

_DE_

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Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

Now that's Drivin a 22lr right there. GOOD shooting Don!
 

AlabamaShooter

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Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

Fine groups there Don. Here is my contribution with an XB from your stables. 10shots @ 100yds 1-3 mph wind at about 3 o'clock
DSC00772.jpg

Needless to say I am NOT going to be selling my rifle anytime soon. Thanks again Don.
 

264win

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    very good shooting fellas . i always like to see guys like you shoot a target next to one of the armchair experts that always seem to be @ the range ..
     

    darkstar

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Looks like you will be stocking up on the Lapua Polar Biathlon.

    Im not the least bit suprised that the Eley didnt do the best. I have Win 52's. Only one shoots Eley red and black well and all the others shoot Lapua Midas so much better than Eley.
     

    Red_SC

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    You want to give that 40X to me, Don? I have a real nice 10/22 I'll trade...

    Nice shooting!
     

    magman687

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    1 inch 3 shot groups at 300 yards
    all shot at 6x power
    ruger 10/22 22lr

    fajen Silhouette thumbhole stock

    valquartsen SS 20 inch with v-comp

    valquartsen bolt with face work (trueing)

    leapers 6-24x mil-dot scope

    custom 1.4 LB. trigger pull

    300 yard groups on 6X
    125 was on 16X
    now for pics

    2vl5e76.jpg



    4 shot group at 125 yd. other groups where from a friends gun
    2vmdc91.jpg



    under 1 inch 3 shot at 300 yd
    2h6sv37.jpg


    1 inch on paper at 300 yd today
    2iqlixk.jpg


    using wolf match extra and aguila match rifle

    and id love to get my hands on the XB :D:D:D:D
    great shooting i love seeing ppl take there 22'S out past 35 yards most ppl seem to think a 22 is worthless past 50 yards glad to see other ppl out there proving them wrong.
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Hi Red. How you doing? Your welcome to come up and shoot with me and Jim any time. If you come up on the first Saturday I'll let you borrow a 40X to compete with at Elberton. I'll lay three out and you choice. It don't matter as they all can beat any thing any one else brings to the match.


    Darkstar I'll be testing the Baithlon again for sure. I never could get the older white box Biathlon to shoot but this new stuff is looking really good. The bullet is shaped like the old UM1 bullet. Don't know if that has any effect but it's an indication that the new biathlon has gone through a change so that could be a good thing. I've got a couple other rifles to test this ammo with and I want to make sure this is not a fluke group.

    Magman good shooting for a 22. Did you bed the rifle into the stock or is it just bolted in?

    Donald
     

    magman687

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    doc in sc

    its just bolted in but i shimmed it so the barrel floats better

    bedding could be good lol :Di might do that

    you know its funny how some guns like the cheaper ammo more then the high grade stuff like my rifle shoot agila match rifle better then it does eley tenex and my friends gun which is the same as mine shootseley sport better then wolf match target i get the best out of mine with wolf match extra.
     

    Red_SC

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Don in SC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi Red. How you doing? Your welcome to come up and shoot with me and Jim any time. If you come up on the first Saturday I'll let you borrow a 40X to compete with at Elberton. I'll lay three out and you choice. It don't matter as they all can beat any thing any one else brings to the match.
    </div></div>

    It's a pretty good haul for me, but I just might take you up on that sometime. Sounds like fun.
     

    VJJPunisher

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    I tell ya what, that wolf 22 match is a little known secret around here that i spank peoples ass with, good testing and shooting
     

    hrt4me

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tell ya what, that wolf 22 match is a little known secret around here that i spank peoples ass with, good testing and shooting </div></div>

    +1
     

    magman687

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jayjayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I tell ya what, that wolf 22 match is a little known secret around here that i spank peoples ass with, good testing and shooting</div></div>

    i hear that man :D:D:D:D
     

    Country Boy

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Real nice shooting Don. Glad to see some SC guys in here

    Im curious as ive never heard of Lapua Polar Biathlon ammo. I dont even think ive seen any wolf stuff around here either. Where can I find some of that stuff?

    I normally shoot Federal Automatch but found the CCI SV to shoot much better. Thank you
    smile.gif
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Welcome Country Boy to the forum.

    There's a bunch of SC guys here and some of them can shoot to, LOL.

    I would not have been shooting the Polar Biathlon but for the fact I'm looking for some new killer 22 ammo. The old Lapua white box Biathlon never did shoot well for me. I've seen some national scores lately where the new Biathlon was in the top ten so I just thought I'd give it a try as Lapua has changed up all thier ammo lately. As for ammo my usual place I buy from is Champion Shooters Supply. They are competetive on price and they charge a realistic price for shipping.

    Donald
     

    magman687

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    country boy i got the wolf match extra at midway and cheaperthandirt as far as the lapua i dont know but id like to try it
    laugh.gif
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Shot another test today. Descent groups but not great. Had some trouble with changing winds. Just was not my best day, maybe the heat was getting to me. Here’s how the groups break down from two different guns and the Wolf MT and Lapua Polar Biathlon. Still like how the Biathlon is looking but it will require more testing before I decide to buy any in quantity.

    Remington 40XB 22LR
    Redfield Palma/Olympic
    Factory Barrel/Stock

    Temperature 90+
    Humidity 80+
    Full Sun
    Winds 2 to 5 knots at 2 o’clock
    Time 11:00 am

    Wolf Match Target.... Lapua Polar Biathlon
    .365 .................... .690 First group on cold bore
    .470 .................... .215
    .275 .................... .355
    .535 .................... .470

    Remington 40XB 22LR
    Leupold 25X
    Shillen barrel
    factory stock

    Temperature 90+
    Humidity 80+
    Full Sun
    Winds 3 to 5 knots at 2 o’clock
    Time 12:30 pm

    Wolf Match Target.... Lapua Polar Biathlon
    .190 .................... .285
    .280 .................... .560
    .340 .................... .340
    .295 .................... .210
     

    tansinator

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Magman,

    What was your dope at 300 yards? Gonna give it a go in the morning. That is some hellacious shooting you did there.

    Eddie
     

    itguy

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    I have to call BS on that Magman. I have a kicken 10/22 that I use for prone matches that are for fun. It shoots lights out at 100yrds but there is no way it will shot that good at 300. I have a Kidd barrel and as far as all my research and shooting other guns..its at the top of the list. Anyway..sorry to call it out..but i dont believe it. If you did happen to to do that..I want to come take lessons to shoot like you do
    smile.gif
     

    boston

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Don, that's some fine shooting! I'm hoping for similiar results when my KIDD shipment arrives to complete my build. As for Wolf Match, it's greasy/oily and so damn accurate!

     

    Rob257

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Nice shooting Don, I am really looking forward to the results of your next match. Someone has to keep Jim honest.
     

    95LTZ

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Nobody has to worry about Jim. The guy who is the "Shit Hot Ticket" right now is Don & has been for quite awhile. After getting beat by Don the last match I attended I decided it was time to step up. I had Robert Gradous of Gradous Rifles in Hepzibah, GA. glass bed, install Jewell trigger & open up the tuner I.D. to fit the hvy bbl. 40X that I got from Don a while back. With very little fiddling/adjustments with the tuner I was extremely happy with these results. On this day this is my best effort at both 50 & 100 yards with a 22lr using a high tech bipod.
    08-08-2010085124AM4.jpg

    08-08-2010085124AM3.jpg

    08-08-2010085124AM2.jpg

    08-08-2010085124AM.jpg

    The witness signature is the Master himself Don in SC.
    Semper Fi
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    I hear footsteps, is that you Jim catching up?

    So I went back today and ran another test on some of the ammo I have. I used two rifles and after shooting quite a few groups on 22lr 50 yard and 100 yard slow fire targets I choose two ammo types per gun that showed the most promise for each rifle. Conditions were about the same all day. Not the best for 22 testing but good enough to show if one rifle trended in one direction or another.

    Temperature was 90 to 94 deg.
    Humidity 70% plus
    Clear sky, full sun.
    Winds from 9 to 10 o'clock at 2 to 5 knots.
    Time was 10:00am to 13:00pm.

    I fired well over two hundred record shots of 22 and that was after shooting 45 rounds of 6BR at 300 yards. Way too much for me. My last two IBS targets were truly ugly. I stayed hunched over the rifle to long and was getting muscle lock in my neck and shoulders and could not force myself to relax and get into a natural recoil position. I have to say it affected my shooting on the two last targets even though the scores don't look bad; many of the tens are on the outside of the ring and not inside were they should be. Just a tiny incorrect wind read and a shot like that would be a game losing 8 or 7. I do not recommend sitting behind a 22 for three hours.


    I used the Standard IBS 25 bull’s eye 50 yard target as the shoot off target. It forces the shooter to reposition for each shot even though a small change it should negate any advantage one ammo may have from the rifle having a better rest position and the total of 25 shots give enough info to evaluate if an ammo lot has potential to compete or not.

    First rifle is a Remington 40X (what else would it be); Remington marksmanship center fire stock (has a fuller grip than the Rimfire otherwise the same); Tuned factory trigger at 8 once; Shilen tight bore, 16 twist, reverse taper barrel, Leupold 25X target scope fine duplex.

    First target shot was with an old lot of Eley Tenex that's just better than most anything I've ever seen. Score was 250 with 17x. Highest possible is 250 with 25x.

    Second target was with a lot of Midas L that shoots very well for me and it the ammo I use most often to compete with. Score was a 247 with 11x's.

    I felt good about both of these targets and think I made good wind calls for the conditions at the time.

    The last two targets were where I felt locked up in my upper body. I could not seem to relax and assume a correct position behind the rifle. I even left the firing line for awhile and tried to walk it off. Did not really help and just aloud the rifle to cool down which is the one thing I truly hate to do to a 22 when it's shooting well. Scores and ammo listed below.

    Second rifle is another Remington 40X, Factory all the way except for a Jewel BR trigger and NF BR Scope. Same target frames and front and rear rest.

    First target was with the Lapua Polar Biathlon that I have just started to test. Even though I cannot claim to have been hitting on all 8 cylinders the rifle still turned in a very good score. After shooting the next target which I know should have been better I feel this one to be handy capped by my poor efforts. Score was a 249 with 11x. A good target for any outdoor match but not what it could have been I think.

    Second target was another lot of Older Eley Tenex that I know is a shooter. This ammo just never shoots this poorly so even though it's just my opinion I believe it shows to some degree my lack of shooting skill at the time. This target should be the near twin to the first by the first rifle. The ugly is only 248 with 5x's with far too many tens on the outside of the 10 ring. Not close to the performance it was showing just an hour or so before when I was feeling relaxed and comfortable behind the rifle.

    The point to all this fluff is the Polar Biathlon is well worth a try if you’re in need of ammo for an older factory rifle with an old style larger bore. It has not shown me much for any of the new barrels I have which are all tight bores but I still have a few in the stable that I've not let run lately so the next test will include one or two of them.

    Here's the data in table style.

    Rifle #1

    Eley Tenex -------- 250 -- 17X
    Lapua Midas L ----- 247 --- 9X

    Rifle #2

    Lapua P. Biathlon - 249 -- 11X
    Eley Tenex -------- 248 --- 5X

    Very long but felt the need to share the whole story.
    Donald
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Pictures of the two better targets from yesterday.

    Target #1 is Eley Tenex shot from the 40X with a Shilen barrel

    EleyTenex25017X.jpg


    Target two is Lapua Polar Biathlon shot from a factory condition 40X with a Jewel trigger and glass bedded.

    LapuaPolarBaithlon.jpg
     

    GRIM

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    WOW Don - that is one tack driving .22LR. NICE RIG!!!
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Ok, went out today with another 40X and the same 22 ammo. Rifle is a CMP 722 style Heavy barrel that's in good condition. Not new but looks fair and shoots great. It's a rather rare one as it appears to be one of the transition guns from the 722 standard barrels to the 700 heavy barrel style rifles. Stock had been cut down so I added an old Anschutz/Savage butt plate but otherwise it's all factory. Shot these groups with a Leupold 25X scope. Ammo is my good Eley Tenex and the Lapua Polar Biathlon that I've been playing with were the flavor of the day.

    Rifle: Factory Remington 40X (722 receiver) with heavy barrel.
    Anschutz butt plate installed on short stock.

    Weather: Light mist with heavy over cast.
    Temp: 85 deg.
    Wind: very little at 11 o'clock. Zero to 2 knots tops.
    Humidity: very high in the 90 percent plus area

    50 yards

    Eley Tenex --- 5 shot groups

    .374
    .402
    .346
    .311
    .354
    .346
    .283
    .481

    Average --- .362

    Lapua Polar Biathlon --- 5 shot groups

    .266
    .499
    .598
    .388

    Average .438

    100 Yards

    Eley Tenex --- 5/10 shot group

    .384 --- 5 shot group

    .615 --- 10 shot group

    Lapua Polar Biathlon

    1.236 --- 5 shot group

    1.311 --- 10 shot group

    As you can see the Lapua is very competitive at 50 yards but completely falls apart at 100. The Lapua groups were evenly scattered and not just one or two outside of a tighter group. The Lapua did shoot better in another rifle last week at 100 so you should not conclude that it will not work for 100 yard ammo. This test just goes to show that This Lapua does not do well at 100 on this day in this rifle.

    Donald
     

    clmayfield

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Are you reporting in inches or MOA? I ask because I am wondering how your 50 yd results are so close to your 100 yard results? For me, my 100 yard groups are about 4X my 50 yard groups in inches, and about 2X my 50 yard groups in MOA... of course, my 100 yard is actually 110... but still, my results are pretty typical compared to other folks. It seems I average about .25 inches at 50 and about .9 inches at 110... so I am looking at your results and thinking that you look awesome at 100 (as in I could not do that with my gun), but pretty typical at 50.

    I am just trying to put it all in perspective. Is your 50 maybe a little longer than 50 or your 100 maybe a little shorter than 100? Or maybe your guns are really good at distance or mine is not so good at distance?
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    I only shot one group of five and ten for both ammo types at 100 yards today. I was at the range mainly to test a GAP 7WSM and BAER 338/416 Rigby for a 1000 yard match Saturday so I did not have as much time to play with the little gun today. The groups are measured with a Strarrett Caliper and all measurements are in Inches. The purpose of the test was to see if the Lapua is worth me spending a grand on a case of it for competition. These groups are shot with a rifle I hardly ever use as it's not my best performer. The 100 yard Eley groups are better than what I usely turn in on match day. But that's what seems to happen with my shooting. My normal score group size would be closer to 1/2 to 3/4 inch for five shots. I would not compete at 100 with a rifle that can not at least shoot 3/4 inch groups most of the time. Anything bigger than that and you better stay home as your going to come in last. The crowd I compete against are damn good. I've owned over fifty 40X 22lr rifles over the years to find the ones that are truely hammers on match day. Most 40X's in good condition will shoot this well if you can find the correct ammo for the rifle and then hope you can buy several cases of it when you do. There are plenty other makers of 22s out there that will shot just as well. Most people just dont want to shoot 10 to 15 thousand 22 bullets every year to test and refine their shooting technique.

    Donald
     

    clmayfield

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Maybe the extra 10 yards is a bigger deal than I thought... I don't have any problem turning in 5-shot groups in the 2's @ 50, but half inch at 110 is pretty much a rarity for me. 3/4 inch is pretty common... but on average, I am at .9 inches or so at 100... and that is having tested through about 20 lots of ammo.
     

    95LTZ

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    I was at the range with Don yesterday. Normally I don't like to look at his groups as they are somewhat depressing. He had a 10 shot group at 100 that was scary small. Like I say I try not to look for very long. I did try some of his Polar Biathlon at 100 yards. It was in my iron sight rifle which is a 40X I got from Don several years ago. The Polar shot to the same point of impact as my old Federal UM1. As far as accuracy I will have to call it a draw as 5, 5 shot groups with irons do not really make a test but after measuring with the dial calipers the UM1 was slightly smaller.
    Semper Fi
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Seems to be some question to the my 100 yard group with the 40X.
    So I'll let you measure yourself. These are the two targets I shot. As Jim posted above he was at the range and he saw me shoot both of these targets. The 10 shot target was the first target I shot and I made both a up and left correction and shot the five shot group. As you can see I over correct for elevation but got the windage about right. Standard new US coins provided as a point of refference to make measurements by.

    DSC04002.jpg
     

    clmayfield

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    I'm not questioning it, I am just surprised that the 50 yard is not tighter with the 100 yard so tight. I am also wondering how much I lose shooting at 100 vs 100. It doesn't seem like it should be much, but it might be...
     

    tansinator

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Ditto on what Carter Mayfield says. My 50 yard groups look like yours. My 100 yard groups, not so much. I can normally keep 10 shots in about an inch, but thats all. We do most of out shooting in an open field so every little bit of wind makes is tough. What conditions are you shooting in Don? I have been to a couple of places where some buddies shoot long range and they shoot down a road, in a bottom, lined by pines and it is like shooting in a vacuum.

    Last month we had the Tennesse Smallbore State championship with some pretty good shooters and no groups like those above were shot.

    Don, I am not questioning your ability or your word. I am just trying to see where I can improve.

    Eddie
     

    tansinator

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Forgot to add, I am shooting an older Annie(58 or 59) with Wolf Ammo. I am too cheap to buy the good stuff. That may be part of my problem.

    Eddie
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tansinator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot to add, I am shooting an older Annie(58 or 59) with Wolf Ammo. I am too cheap to buy the good stuff. That may be part of my problem.

    Eddie </div></div>

    I think you mean a model 54. If there is a 58 or 59 by a litle deer antler thing on the side its the year the rifle was made.
    As for your choice of ammo compairing Wolf to Eley Tenex is like compairing a Prius to a Porche. Wolf is fine for the price and many use it in comp's arround here but none ever finish in the top three with it. There is just to many strays with it. If I could only count four out of five shots with the Wolf I would beable to post groups that are as good as the Eley.

    Here's a link to the 2009 ARA Nationals Equipment list. Notice there's no Wolf listed. Very little Lapua for that matter and other than Eley nothing else even made the top 90 shooters. There's a reason the best 22 shooters in the USA use Eley and Lapua and nothing else.

    http://ara.benchrest.net/09-10Winter-Indoor/2009IndoorNationalsEquip.htm

    I posted the weather conditions in the first thread but I'll give them again.

    Overcast, 85 degrees, very light wind at 11 o'clock, 90 plus humidity. Air was very heavy and that might explain the bullets getting to the same place at 100.


    Donald
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Carter Mayfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not questioning it, I am just surprised that the 50 yard is not tighter with the 100 yard so tight. I am also wondering how much I lose shooting at 100 vs 100. It doesn't seem like it should be much, but it might be... </div></div>

    My groups may have been effected by the fact I had just finished 50 rounds of 7 WSM and 35 rounds for 338/416 Rigby and a M1 Garand I was testing for a friend. Both of those two big guns will leave you a little beat up.
    Or mayby I was just ready to leave as I had been there for four hours and it was time to go get something to eat. Never will know.

    Donald
     

    tansinator

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    Don, Model is 54, year made 1958 or 1959.
    wink.gif
    They didn't start putting the year on the barrel until later is what I've been told. Some of the older gentlemen around Chattanooga helped me with the year of manufacture.
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tansinator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don, Model is 54, year made 1958 or 1959.
    wink.gif
    They didn't start putting the year on the barrel until later is what I've been told. Some of the older gentlemen around Chattanooga helped me with the year of manufacture. </div></div>

    Nothing wrong with the older rifles at all. One of my favorite 40X's was made in 58 and shoots better than many custom guns. You should try the Lapua Midas/Master L if you can find some. It's made for the larger bores found on the older 22's. Also even thou it cost more the Lapua Polar Biathlon is doing quite well in my factory rifles. It does not shoot very well in my thight bore custom rifles but the five factory 40X's I've tried it in it has shot nearly as well as my best Eley and equal to or better than my favorite Midas L ammo.

    There's a fair amount of shooting in your area. I have two good friends that shoot in Chattanooga. They live down arround Rock Mark south of Rome. You should try some of the IRA/ARA matches in your area.

    Donald
     

    donws2

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    Re: Shameless bragging - 40XB test today

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tundraotto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what kind of rifle is this - obviously you can drive it! </div></div>

    One of the several Remington 40X rifles I own. Been looking for a new match bullet that does not cost 20 or more a box so that's what started the whole thread. I want the ammo to shoot in more than one or two rifles because it's common for a 22 rifle to go cold for awhile and the shooter have to change to another rifle to compete with. Most feel it's related to the weather or at least some form of enviromental condition and superficial evidence would tend to back that up. I keep at least four or five really good shooting 22 BR rifles arround all the time. Some shooters only dirve one good rifle and keep arround seven to ten cases of different lots of match ammo. I want to only keep three lots of good ammo. One for practice and two to compete with.

    Donald