Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

[toblak]

I've just started "getting into" long range shooting and am currently working on the basics like trigger control, follow through and breath control. I have a Remington 700 in .308 in an AICS chassis.

A typical trip to the range involves me shooting 20 or so rounds of match grade ammunition, to ensure my scope is still zeroed, and I can generate somewhat respectable groups. Once I know everything is still working, I switch over to low cost Wolf ammunition and work on the techniques needed to get consistent groups.

While the groups I get with the Wolf ammunition aren't great, it's hard for me to use match ammunition, with it's associated cost, when I'm just trying to develop good long range shooting techniques.

Is using the lower quality ammunition a bad thing?

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

It really doesn't give you any feedback as to if you are shooting properly. As far as I am concerned, you might as well be practicing dry firing.

 

[TexIndian]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

Do you have a .22 rimfire rifle? Practicing with that would cost very little yet would give you immediate and more reliable feedback on your techniques.

 

[Former0302]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

Ever consider learning how to reload?

 

[flyrodder]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

Smaller and more consistent groups are still smaller and more consistent, even if they are over 1 MOA. Granted, you'll probably need to shoot more and document more, since the increased variability in the cheap ammo will make analysis more difficult.

Rimfire practice is good, but you can run into the same problem there, unless you invest in a good rifle and good ammo. I still think $0.04 is expensive for a 22, and my .17 HMR is running a bit over $0.20 a round, so I don't consider it to be a cheap alternative (but it is fun!).

Having said that, I suggest two things:
1) If you enjoy shooting the cheap ammo, go ahead. This is supposed to be fun, not a job.
2) +1 on learning to reload. You can tailor loads to your rifle and get much better performance at a reduced cost, and it can be enjoyable all by itself.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

Tough situation.

I agree with those saying the cheap ammo gives no useable feedback. I've been there and its VERY frustrating!

Using a rimfire doesn't solve much either. They are good for practice, but not a direct substitute for a "real" centerfire rifle. Plus, you need to spend some decent coin on quality ammo so that IT doesn't leave you frustrated with unexplained fliers and bad groups.

I assume your budget is tight (it always is), but perhaps a .223 rifle is the answer? I've found the Fiocci 62gr boat tail stuff to be good for 1 MOA or better from several different ARs and boltguns. It is $0.30/round shipped, and is fully reloadable. You can normally sell once fired 223 brass for $50/1000, so that brings your cost of ammo down to $0.25/round...

I figure factory 308 ammo is (at LEAST) $0.75/round to get 1moa or better ammo. Savings of $0.50/round equals $500 over the course of 1000 rounds.

The reloading gig can net you excellent ammo in 308 for about $0.60/round (brass included - but used 4 times), but that doesn't count the time you put into it. If you've got a lot of free time and not a lot of money - or if you really just ENJOY making ammo, this is a good way to go.

Either getting a .223 rifle or a reloading rig is going to cost somewheres between $400 and $1000. My opinion is to focus on your marksmanship with a 223 and not worry about ammo yet...plenty of time for that later!

 

[FALex]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

Hey Tomato, I'm in Boise and I have the same issue as you...quality ammo cost. As much as I want to reload, I have yet to get the cash for the hardware. I guess another barrier is not knowing what the hell I'm doing when it comes to reloading! I plan on asking my lovely wife for reloading gear as Christmas/birthday gifts. From there, I suppose it's "hitting the books" to learn how to do it. Good luck.

 

[Chanonry]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

I don't entirely agree that shooting low quality ammo gives NO usable feedback.

It is obviously true that measuring the group size on the paper may not be much use.

If you are working on position and driving the rifle properly then some useful feedback comes from how the reticle and rifle moves during the shot.

If you are taking shots at targets at unknown distances then you can get useful feedback on your ability to compute drop and estimate wind to a practical degree depending on the target size.

It is a waste of time if you are trying to be highly accurate and precise. Sooner or later you need to shoot the good stuff to further refine your skill set, but you can get useful feedback depending on where you are on the learning curve.

 

[308Shooter1911]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

+1 on reloading...

Save your brass. A Decent 50$ Dillon scale and a 30$ Lee Classic loader will load far better ammo than any cheap bulk ammo. And you can get a press when funds allow

 

[fdkay]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

There is always the Hornady steel match ammo, it can be found for about 45 bucks for 50 rounds.

Try Southwest ammo run and gun, USA Ammo or my favorite, American Eagle 168 OTM.

They can all be had for around 15 bucks a box, all are very accurate and not much more than your Wolf ammo.

 

[gtriever]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

PSA has Prvi 168gr for 14/box, and FGMM 168gr is only 18/box. That'll save a few bucks.

 

[Killer Spade 13]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

An old American Indian adage, "Any bow is a good bow, it's the arrow that does the killing."

 

[Wade]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

A few rounds of match ammo preceded by and followed by dry fire would be my preferred approach.

 

[ZackG]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

No, using low quality ammunition is not a bad thing at all. I shoot brown bear through my 308 which costs me $9 compared to the $25 for FGMM or $30 for Hornady superformance. That means I can shoot almost 3x more with the cheaper brown bear than with match grade ammo. I'm not made of money, so it's not fun for me at all to burn a hole in my pocket at the range with family and friends.

And of course, the most economical thing to do is reload. You'll save a load of money.

 

[toblak]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

I'd like to thank everyone for their replies.

Reloading is definitely on my list of things I want to try. The initial investment in equipment is a concern, but I guess I just have to realize that, over time, it will pay for itself.

Again, thank you for your advice and replies.

TomatoNick

 

[Arbiter]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

Try a variety of cheap ammo types.

With all of the surpus currently available on the market, there's quite a few different potential options that just <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> shoot quite well in your particular rifle.

I bought a box of German DAG 7.62x51 just to function-check a cheap semi-auto I'd picked up, and happened to throw a magazine's worth into my AI. It printed well under 1/2 MOA, as did the next three magazines that my friend and I both shot. Maybe it was just luck with that particular lot or batch, but that DAG surplus 'junk ammo' damn near outperformed my handloads, and yet I've seen it for at or below $.40/round online.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

Cheap ammo is probably too inconsistent to give reliable feedback.

What's more, handloading will probably deliver the best performance per buck of any; but that cost savings does not appear right away.

The savings comes as an economy of scale, and requires a lot of equipment usage to realize the first real monetary savings.

The real advantage comes from being able to achieve barrel-matched ammunition consistency at the personal level.

I think that rimfires are definitely the best answer to effective traning and practice.

I think they have an added benefit of sparing the primary firearm from unnecessary bore wear.

A primary rifle that is not being used for its primary purpose is a rifle whose endurance is being squandered.

Honestly, how often does one need to prove something is still doing what it always does? The human factor is the one that needs the reconfirmation.

If one demands exquisite accuracy from a rimfire, then one is beating a horse that needs no beating. Simply backing off the demand yields results that are repeatable and can be clearly interpreted in terms of improvement, degradation, and plateauing of basic marksmanship skills.

That's all we can reasonably ask from a trainer, and the .22LR can deliver that very effectively, reliably, and affordably. Rimfire training is not supposed to be indistinguishable for rimfire benchrest.

Greg

 

[Chanonry]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TomatoNick</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> over time, it will pay for itself.

TomatoNick</div></div>

don't think that is how it works out, we probably all start off thinking that but usually end up just shooting more for the same money. Not a bad thing!

 

[Aborigine]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Arbiter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try a variety of cheap ammo types.

With all of the surpus currently available on the market, there's quite a few different potential options that just <span style="font-style: italic">might</span> shoot quite well in your particular rifle.

I bought a box of German DAG 7.62x51 just to function-check a cheap semi-auto I'd picked up, and happened to throw a magazine's worth into my AI. It printed well under 1/2 MOA, as did the next three magazines that my friend and I both shot. Maybe it was just luck with that particular lot or batch, but that DAG surplus 'junk ammo' damn near outperformed my handloads, and yet I've seen it for at or below $.40/round online.</div></div>

The German DAG 7.62x51 has an outstanding reputation here in Germany in the surplus sector. Also there is another manufacturer with the name "MEN" they also produce high quality sniper rounds at low cost.

 

[RedGoat]

Re: Shooting Techniques And Low Quality Ammo

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cheap ammo is probably too inconsistent to give reliable feedback.

What's more, handloading will probably deliver the best performance per buck of any; but that cost savings does not appear right away.

The savings comes as an economy of scale, and requires a lot of equipment usage to realize the first real monetary savings.

The real advantage comes from being able to achieve barrel-matched ammunition consistency at the personal level.

I think that rimfires are definitely the best answer to effective traning and practice.

I think they have an added benefit of sparing the primary firearm from unnecessary bore wear.

A primary rifle that is not being used for its primary purpose is a rifle whose endurance is being squandered.

Honestly, how often does one need to prove something is still doing what it always does? The human factor is the one that needs the reconfirmation.

If one demands exquisite accuracy from a rimfire, then one is beating a horse that needs no beating. Simply backing off the demand yields results that are repeatable and can be clearly interpreted in terms of improvement, degradation, and plateauing of basic marksmanship skills.

That's all we can reasonably ask from a trainer, and the .22LR can deliver that very effectively, reliably, and affordably. Rimfire training is not supposed to be indistinguishable for rimfire benchrest.

Greg</div></div>

What Greg said.

Keep your powder dry,
Goat