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Short action vs long action 7wsm

pistolpete75

pistolpete75

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Aug 29, 2007
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I don't have any long actions, so I was thinking of getting a barrel spun for a short action.

How much performance am I sacrificing on building one on a short action?

Are they any major feeding issues with building one on a short action?
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

I am planning a build for a 7mmWSM as well so I have been reading as much as I can on the Hide. From everything I have read this is what I know.
Short action will not allow you to use the mag with the heavier bullets seated long. You will also will not be able to eject a loaded round. you will have to remove the bolt to unload the loaded round.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

A wyatts extended box will net you some more space for a longer cartridge. Thats what I'm going to go with. Most actions will need their magazine cutout to be lengthen a bit to accommodate the longer box though. I know the Stiller Predator series are already machined to accept them.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Short action all the way. Chambered for 180gr VLDS at 2.935. I have a few of them and it works for me.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

For 7WSM, I'd go SA & a Wyatt box mag. If you go LA, forget WSM and go 7RM. Load 180's as long as you want and still have room in the mag w/o alterations. Neck size if the belt bothers you.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Sweet!!! I'll have to see if midwayusa will let me return the Wyatt box. Even if they don't, I'm still getting one of the Seekins. I found the website, http://www.seekinsprecision.com/ , but does anyone know if Mcmillan has the inlet information for these? Or do I just order the stock with a Rem BDL inlet, or what?

Thanks Shootone
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

I went short action Surgeon RSR, and Seekins WSM DBM. Should get it in a couple of weeks.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I went short action Surgeon RSR, and Seekins WSM DBM. Should get it in a couple of weeks. </div></div>

Are you doing all the work yourself? What stock inlet do you have on your stock? I was getting ready to order a McMillan A5 and am unsure what to tell them on the inlet information.

Also, how much are you going to have to open the loading box cutout? I wonder if the .130" extension on the Stiller Predator is enough, or whether it would even need to be extended a little.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

McMillan has my stock right now, they are waiting for Glen Seekins to send them a sample of the WSM DBM so they can inlet the bottom metal area of the stock. From what Glen said, its not too much different from the regular Seekins DBM inlet, just a bit longer, so if you dont want to wait, just have them inlet the stock for the regular Seekins DBM and you can do the slight mod needed to fit the WSM DBM when it comes out (any time now)

Jered Joplin (APA) has my barreled action, its all done, but they are waiting for Glen to send them my DBM so they can make any mods needed to the feed port on the action. I think it just needs to be milled a bit in the rear and the feed ramp needs to be notched.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Thank you for the great info USMCj!

I will probably just specify the the Seekins WSM DBM when I order. With a 4+ month wait, they'll have the info needed when they start the stock.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Im sure they will (well, they better! Glen......
laugh.gif
)
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

I got some 3rd mags back from welding yesterday, so a few of you will get shipped out as soon as i finish coating the mags (in house) and assembling. This week is a bit rough as we are installing and getting trained on a new kick butt CNC so we can make more parts fastererererer
smile.gif
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Thats great news Glen. Please let me know when mine ships out to MCM and APA.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

If you're going to go long action, there are way more powerful cartridges than 7WSM.

7WSM is a sweet deal for a short action, but with the availablity of 7 RUM, 7 STW, etc., I just don't see the point of building a 7WSM long action.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to go long action, there are way more powerful cartridges than 7WSM.

7WSM is a sweet deal for a short action, but with the availablity of 7 RUM, 7 STW, etc., I just don't see the point of building a 7WSM long action. </div></div>

Come again? why would you run 7RM when the WSM gives you more than enough case capacity to push the hevies at over 3K fps? You need more powder in the RM or larger cases to push the 180's than you would in a WSM.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Related question. I am looking at building a 6.5cm and a fully realize that it will work with a short action. In talking with the potential action maker he is a strong advocate for the long action in that the angle that the cartridge is brought up into the barrel is a shallower angle. There is the secondary benefit that I would be able to run the gambit of long action cartridges .300win, 30-06, etc. I have done limited research on the long action cartridges. I am just curious to hear others thoughts on the reason and rational.

As always your help is appreciated.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to go long action, there are way more powerful cartridges than 7WSM.

7WSM is a sweet deal for a short action, but with the availablity of 7 RUM, 7 STW, etc., I just don't see the point of building a 7WSM long action. </div></div>

Come again? why would you run 7RM when the WSM gives you more than enough case capacity to push the hevies at over 3K fps? You need more powder in the RM or larger cases to push the 180's than you would in a WSM. </div></div>

He was talking about the RUM and STW which are much bigger then the RM.


I run my WSM in a short action with a Badger M5 and have my AICS mags modified with the front plate taken out. That gives me a maximum OAL length of 2.963. I just load it to 2.960 and run with that. Pretty standard setup. For some reason or another, in my gun, the the bullets (180gr Bergers/JLKs) don't care if it's seated in the lands or not. The other week I had a 5 shot group measuring well under a 1/2" at 300 yards. I don't know, I didn't bother to measure, all the holes were touching and I could only see 3 distinct holes. APA builds one hell of a rifle!
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

I have a 7WSM built on the Surgeon WSM action (which is a short action). Told GAP I wanted to be able to shoot 180gr VLDs touching the lands while within magazine-length so they knew how to cut the chamber, and I have no issues at all. Using an AICS with Accurate mags that already have the front plate taken out of them.

Good times.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to go long action, there are way more powerful cartridges than 7WSM.

7WSM is a sweet deal for a short action, but with the availablity of 7 RUM, 7 STW, etc., I just don't see the point of building a 7WSM long action. </div></div>

Come again? why would you run 7RM when the WSM gives you more than enough case capacity to push the hevies at over 3K fps? You need more powder in the RM or larger cases to push the 180's than you would in a WSM. </div></div>

He was talking about the RUM and STW which are much bigger then the RM.


I run my WSM in a short action with a Badger M5 and have my AICS mags modified with the front plate taken out. That gives me a maximum OAL length of 2.963. I just load it to 2.960 and run with that. Pretty standard setup. For some reason or another, in my gun, the the bullets (180gr Bergers/JLKs) don't care if it's seated in the lands or not. The other week I had a 5 shot group measuring well under a 1/2" at 300 yards. I don't know, I didn't bother to measure, all the holes were touching and I could only see 3 distinct holes. APA builds one hell of a rifle! </div></div>

I understand, but its a waste of powder as the WSM has more than enough capacity for powder to push any bullet you want at any speed. Some would even say that it has too much capacity.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you're going to go long action, there are way more powerful cartridges than 7WSM.

7WSM is a sweet deal for a short action, but with the availablity of 7 RUM, 7 STW, etc., I just don't see the point of building a 7WSM long action. </div></div>

Come again? why would you run 7RM when the WSM gives you more than enough case capacity to push the hevies at over 3K fps? You need more powder in the RM or larger cases to push the 180's than you would in a WSM. </div></div>

He was talking about the RUM and STW which are much bigger then the RM.


I run my WSM in a short action with a Badger M5 and have my AICS mags modified with the front plate taken out. That gives me a maximum OAL length of 2.963. I just load it to 2.960 and run with that. Pretty standard setup. For some reason or another, in my gun, the the bullets (180gr Bergers/JLKs) don't care if it's seated in the lands or not. The other week I had a 5 shot group measuring well under a 1/2" at 300 yards. I don't know, I didn't bother to measure, all the holes were touching and I could only see 3 distinct holes. APA builds one hell of a rifle! </div></div>

I understand, but its a waste of powder as the WSM has more than enough capacity for powder to push any bullet you want at any speed. Some would even say that it has too much capacity. </div></div>

That is absurd. 7WSM is a good performing cartridge, but there are much better performing 7mm calibers than 7WSM. They may not have its efficiency, but they definitely offer better velocity and longer range.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

better velocity? a 180 berger will turn to dust (I have seen this first hand, 2 out of every 5 rounds produced a dust cloud 20' in front of the muzzle and nothing downrange) at anything over 3200fps, and the 7WSM can push it to 3150 without excess pressure. So where does the extra velocity of the other cartridges come to play?
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">better velocity? a 180 berger will turn to dust (I have seen this first hand, 2 out of every 5 rounds produced a dust cloud 20' in front of the muzzle and nothing downrange) at anything over 3200fps, and the 7WSM can push it to 3150 without excess pressure. So where does the extra velocity of the other cartridges come to play? </div></div>

It quite obviously requires a bullet with a thicker jacket than the 180 Berger if it won't survive even 7WSM velocities.

There are probably a dozen or more 7mm bullets that have ballistic coefficients that us .30 cal shooters can only dream of. Being able to launch them at .220 swift/.204 Ruger velocities (or higher) would make for a laser-shooting rifle at seemingly unbelievable ranges.

My whole point is 7WSM is bad ass, but certainly not the best of the 7mm offerings if maximum range is the goal, and certainly not in a long action. I think it's safe to say that 7WSM is the best-performing cartridge for long range shooting that is available in a short action (but there are certainly some 6mm, 6.5mm, and even .284 win gives it a run for its money, so maybe that's not even quite clear). But one you step up to a long action, you start competing with cartridges that have quite a bit more case capacity and the performance shows.

You can say it's a waste of powder and I might agree with you, but I personally think it'd be bad ass to have a 7mm STW or RUM. I'd probably shoot the barrel out within 3-5 range trips, but I bet it'd shoot damn good in the mean time!
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">better velocity? a 180 berger will turn to dust (I have seen this first hand, 2 out of every 5 rounds produced a dust cloud 20' in front of the muzzle and nothing downrange) at anything over 3200fps, and the 7WSM can push it to 3150 without excess pressure. So where does the extra velocity of the other cartridges come to play? </div></div>

Just out of curiosity what combo can push 180's out of 7WSM at 3150 fps without excessive pressure?
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Probably H1000 and RL25.

There are higher velocity 7mm chamberings certainly, but from what i have seen and experienced the level of precision is not there like it is with the WSM. I may be wrong but is there anyone out there with a 1/4 minute STW or RUM?
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Probably H1000 and RL25.

</div></div>

I haven't tried H1000 but I am the process of working up a load with RL25. From what I am seeing right now 3000 fps will be pushing the 7WSM harder than I want to go with 180 VLD's, much less 3150 fps.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

Try H4831SC, that should get you over 3K
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

RL25, H1000 and Magpro are the speed kings. 4831SC and Rl22 have both given me better accuracy in the 7WSM. You could push the 180s 3000+, but both the Bergers and JLKs have shot best when being pushed around 2950-3000FPS. If you want speed, use the 162gr AMAX and push them. When they were shooting in my gun, I was able to push them a little over 3200FPS before I saw some pressure signs. But for some odd reason or another, the Amaxs just don't shoot well (3-5MOA groups) in my rifle any more.
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try H4831SC, that should get you over 3K </div></div>

I have tried H4831sc and it will get 100 fps less than RL25 before it starts showing pressure signs. So far Magpro has had the best velocities of any powder I have tried but the accuracy is not quite there. What was used to get the 180's up to 3150 without excessive pressure signs?
 
Re: Short action vs long action 7wsm

The rifle belonges to a guy I shoot with once in a while, this was out of a 28" tube, either RL25 or H4831SC, Cant remember for sure right now. Ill ask him next time we go out shooting.
 
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