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Advanced Marksmanship Shot group at 600 yds

dar1246

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 6, 2008
1,094
2
55
Nebraska
www.youtube.com
260 142smks 16 shots. From a cold bore shot dailing in the scope to adjusting for a 12 mph crosswind. I will post a 730 yd shot this week. If I get home in time to shoot. This is with the adjustments of elvation and windage shots.


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Re: Shot group at 600 yds

That group has got to put you on edge it sux. Get back to reloading. Or start reloading that group wont work
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I'am having a little bit of a hard time finding the right load for the rifle. It shoots the best at 2540fps that sucks but it shoots under a half moa. This shoot group is at 2720fps but the gun shows some pressure signs. I shot it at 2800 and blew a primers out. I agree on the group.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

You need to move back to 2-3 hundred to do load development. A simple ladder test and you should have it? 10 shots at most.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I worked up a load of H4831SC at 46 grs. 2654fps slow but 1/2 moa. I will try this load and see. I will wait until the weather breaks. Snow and Cold. I will shoot 500 and 600 and let you know how the results are.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

That powder if fairly slow if you are talking about .260 Remington. Try H4350 IMHO

Jerry
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I tried the H4350 got alot more speed but lost of accuracy. Right now I might try this load for shooting. May not be fast but shoots great at 100 yds. This weekend will stretch it out to 600 or maybe 800. I have about 100 rds load for it. I'am going to try this 1st. I know other 260s shoot alot faster but this one shoots the best at those speeds. The othe powder did really well was RL 19 shooting about the same vel.s At this point I will post some shot at some distance.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

The h4350 when I try to get 2800 out of it. The gun would clover leaf 3 rds but throw 2 out 1/2. The H4831SC shows in the Nosler book as the most accuate powder. So far has proven to be the case with this rifle.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I always seem to pull 1 to the left and 1 to the right. Would this be check postioning that is affecting my shot or trigger pull?
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I always seem to pull 1 to the left and 1 to the right. Would this be check postioning that is affecting my shot or trigger pull? </div></div>

How often are you dryfiring?

 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">not very often </div></div>

This should be at the top of your list for 2009 New Years resolutions.

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I'm not meaning to be demeaning in anyway but my groups are tighter with PRVI Partisan match out of my SPS that's primarily stock

I recommend you start doing as much dry firing practice as you can, focusing on POA, breaking at the bottom of your breath, and consistent trigger pull.

At the same time bring it back in, get your hands on a chrono, and work that load up the hard way. It's a PITA, but once you've done it you don't have to do anything but keep loading the same over and over and over again which is great.

smile.gif


That's the best advice I can offer, and I'm not a guru or anything but I believe it could help alot.

Good luck.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

This is 730yds on the ground with a NW wind of 7mph. I don't think the wind has any factor on this group.It seems the I will need some more pratice. I just can't seem to keep all in a group. I try shooting of the ground but that isn't the problem. I will pratice more with dry firing. I use a single stage press and from brass to the finish load are the same. I don't skip a step. I would think it is more human error than anything. Thanks for the advice.
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Re: Shot group at 600 yds

You keep posting these groups they suck. if you shoot f/tr your screwed f/open you enen more fuck. your shooting and groups wont win<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New 600 yds 10 shot group. Shot out of the truck bed again.
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Re: Shot group at 600 yds

No shit. You figured it out. If you would have read the post. I wasn't saying how great they were. I wanting some advice on shot group. If they could tell what I was doing wrong.
I quess you shoot 1 one groups at 730. You must be pretty f awesome. If so that is awesome for you.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

if your loads are slow and at 700 yards they are likely dropping subsonic and that screws your groups.
keep trying I have at least 50 to 100 rounds of 5 shots per charge weight per powder working up to max pressure.
I also go to slower powder until I have full case charges and the velocity that allows grouping with the bullet used.
also ball powders like different primers than extruded powders.

your posting jumps from 2500 to 2700 fps there are lots of loads between that might shoot well
ladder up 0.2 gr per load step you will find groupings with low ES
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Let's be positive. Good work and if you improve your loads your results will be better. Try 139 gr. Lapua Scenar, 44.0 Gr. H4350, Fed 210M, R/P case and full case prep. OAL varies so measure it using a Stoney Point comparator.

In my 27 inch Gap I get 2820 fps with a 139 gr Scenar. Shoots in the .3's at 100 and holds the F class X at 600.

Good luck. PM me if you have questions. The 260 rocks!
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Thanks for the advice. I will go back to the drawing board with the loads and pratice more on dryfiring and breath control. I have only been shooting for a 4months at these distances here and there. Shot at 300 and 400 but never. I will put effort into techingue. Thanks also thanks to one hole shooter for nothing
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Are you gripping your rifle hard and holding it in tight when firing? If so, stop. Just let it rest. Hold the rifle on the center of target and close your eyes for 3 seconds and relax. Open your eyes and the rifle should still be very close to center.
Practice with this and the dry firing. Do same eye closing while dry firing. The target should not move in the scope. This will help to keep you from lying to yourself about what you are really doing with the rifle.
Keep up the practice. Spent primmers are the best way to learn.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Try 139 gr. Lapua Scenar, 44.0 Gr. H4350, Fed 210M, R/P case and full case prep. OAL varies so measure it using a Stoney Point comparator.

Beat me to it! Def. try the 139gr Scenar in the .260 remington
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I have some 139 ordered.I'am still leaning towards needing more practice with form and trigger pull. Tommorrow I will work up a load with H4350. I would like to try the 139s. I need to work more on techigue. The next time I shoot I will shoot slower and take my time and try to repeat the exact steps. I haven't been shooting at the bottom one my exhale. There is alot of good advice that I need to put into action. I will take the things you have said and do it. Thanks
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New 600 yds 10 shot group. Shot out of the truck bed again. </div></div>


Dude, am I reading this right? You are laying prone in the bed of your truck? If so, are you stabilizing the vehicle body with jack stands or something?

If not, that is probably 80% of your issue. The wind moves the truck bed. Recoil moves the entire shooting platform. I know it is cold where you are, but you need to get down in the dirt and shoot.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

+1 Didnt even think of that! I would bet that shooting in a truck is a BIG part of the problem.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

AT the 600 yds that picture is how I was shooting. Didn't like that group. The 730yds I shot off the ground. I still threw 3 shots out because of trigger pull. The truck be is dumb thing to do. I will start shooting from the ground. I still need work on techique. Thanks
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I would definatly invest in making a solid shooting bench. Plus im sure in Nebraska it pretty damn cold right now so that a factor. Then you need to work on your trigger control. Or have the trigger lightened a bit and practice, practice, practice. Also shoot some of the 139gr scenars, also look at 6mmbr.com, they offer alot of info on reloading 6.5 calibers and should assist you on a load. Shoot when there is NO wind. That should make your groups shrink a bit.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

IN nebraska there is about 3 days a year where there is no wind. I will have to shoot with the wind conditions. This state blows most of the year. A mild day is a wind of 5 to 10 mph. A really windy day is 35 to 55mph. Those are the days when I don't shoot. I treat most windy days like a 10 mph wind if it is a crosswind but if it comes from my 10 to 11 oclock I treat like a 5 mph.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Dar,
On the bright side your 730yard group only shows about 1/2 moa of vertical, the rest looks to be horizontal shift from the wind, major improvement over the first target.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Do you have any advice on software for bullet path. I have been using Sierra Inf.6 sor my calculations. I chrono my loads at 2800 fps on 10 shot average. At 600 yds my moa up told me 12.6 but When I shot it was actually on 10 moa up. Is there better software?
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Captain Kick-Ass</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">New 600 yds 10 shot group. Shot out of the truck bed again. </div></div>


Dude, am I reading this right? You are laying prone in the bed of your truck? If so, are you stabilizing the vehicle body with jack stands or something?

If not, that is probably 80% of your issue. The wind moves the truck bed. Recoil moves the entire shooting platform. I know it is cold where you are, but you need to get down in the dirt and shoot.</div></div>


Getting down in the dirt is alot more difficult than a texan might think. Especially when the dirt is several feet under snow. Lying on top of the snow dosent always work either because you sink into it. I shoot out of the bed of my pickup often in the winter, It dosent move all that much, probably enough to effact groups though.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Get shovel and dig the snow from around your
shooting position, probably should have one in the truck in
snow country anyways, right?
I picked up an inflatable canvas covered sleeping mat from a surplus store to shoot of of when things are snowy,muddy.(no ,I don't inflate it)
If these things don't work then try leaving the purse at home,sack-up and shoot right,
Just kidding bud, I know Wisco can be a cold mother.



 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I did change my load today. It did help. Went to 48.5grs H4831SC Col 2.820 CCIBR primers 142SMK getting 2800fps. It did help + shooting off the ground. I still want to try the 139 lapuas. I have to work on correct data and trigger pull.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

dar--as far as the software goes its only designed to get you close....and its kind of rare for it to be dead on.....but my guess as to why its so far off is you dont have it set right....Ill bet you dont have your scope hight set right....your elevation set right...., BC, or temp....Ill almost bet its one of those....if you have questions on any of these or anything else with the programs feel free to send me a PM and Ide be glad to give you a hand....

One last thing....which program are you using? IVe found some are better than others....
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Would Elvation angle play a part in vertical. Shooting from 1766 alitude down to 1280 alitude. If I play with the software some this is the only factor that changes the bullet path.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I figured it out. It isn't the software. My calculations was off. I needed to adjust for my downward angle. This would decrease my Moa by 1.7 taking my Moa of 12.7 to 11 MOA. It takes a while for me to figure these things out.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Yep that would greatly affect the calculations.....good job on figuring it out....sometimes it takes a bit to learn as to what affects what....
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I wasn't going to be able to sleep tonight until I figure it out. The thought would have been on my mind I realized what it was. Never thought about it because someone told me once that just didn't have much play factor in a shot plaacement. I screwed around with the software and that was the only factor that could have effect on the bullet path. A lesson learn today. Thanks
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

My 600 yd shot 9 shots thought I shot 10 but didn't. Couldn't count them from that far. 13mph NW wind off my 10 oclock with gust up to 22mph. The difference in the elavation angle was the difference in the MOAs went from 12.7moas to 11.1. Is this any improvement?
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Re: Shot group at 600 yds

with winds gusting to 22mph I would say that isn't too bad at all!
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Here is a good picture of Nebraska's weather. In 45 minutes it went from sunny wind to full blown snow. You could see the front moving in at a fast pace.
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Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Damn good groups if your shooting in stuff like that!
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I had some difficulties with my learning curves of angles. I got down on the ground for a more stable platform. The guns shoots better than I can shoot right now. I make a extra effort in trying to do the same thing twice. I'am new at this and I will get better. There is alot of variables in this. After we shot the storm blew in really quick and dump 2" of snow on us within the same hour. I did throw one out and my groups should be better. I will work on this.Thanks it is a work in progress.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

The reloading help with it. I think it a better group than before. I had alot of good advice from a everybody but one holer. I do appreicate the davice. It let me know how far I need to go with everything.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

dar,

I had to laugh a bit at your comments about the weather there...
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I grew up in western Nebraska (Oshkosh) and later lived about three miles from the Wyoming border... so I have a pretty fair idea what you mean about the wind!
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If the wind is proving to be a problem... I'd suggest maybe doing more of your load work @ 300. Sometimes real early in the morning before things get howling too much helps as well.

When I used to shoot a 6.5-08, I found 38gr Varget seemed to work really well behind either the 142 SMK or the 139 Scenar... but the Scenar *did* shoot smaller groups consistently out of that gun. 42-44gr H4350 worked well and shot a little faster, though.

At any rate, good luck!

Monte
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

That is a pretty windy area too. I have some 139s on order. Should be here hopefully this week. Then back to the drwing board.
 
Re: Shot group at 600 yds

I shot tonight at 725yds. I still have a problem with the vertical. The one on the outside right by the 7 is from last night. Could check placement do this or trigger pull?
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Re: Shot group at 600 yds

Truthly once I get most of my bugs work out. Even though I'am shooting for a group. I read Lowlights post. It really isn't about how many you can put in a spot. But can you do it on the first round and then go to the next target for a first round hit. I think that is the true goal of this. There is difinetly some great shooters on this site. What is the expected goal of first round hits at 500,600, 739,etc. ????