Shot my first ladder, bit confused, help please

[kresso]

So I loaded up my first ladder and shot today and I am a bit confused.
I have a savage axis in 308.
I am using ELD-X 178 grain, in already fired Winchester brass, with Varget. I am using a Caldwell cronograph and shooting from the ground with a lead sled.
My primers are CCI 200.
Everything was loaded to 2.800 COL

I attached a chart of my fps. I had one give an error, and the one that dipped, I didn't seat the primer all the way in. Now I know to go back and fix that in the future. My issues, is I am not seeing a flat part. I used the Hornady manual and did from the smallest load to the largest that they recommended. Did I not use fine enough grains at .5? Any help would be great.

 

[Onyx Z]

Where's a picture of the target?

How many rounds per powder charge? If using only one round per charge and only trusting the velocity readings, you need to have your loading down to a science and each round MUST BE EXACTLY THE SAME to produce quality results. The ONLY variable will be powder charge.

IMO, it sounds like you need to refine your loading practices before trusting this type of load development.

 

[spife7980]

Agreed ^^^, the target doesn’t lie. As you’ve discovered a chrono can’t tell you what’s true on target.

 

[kresso]

Thanks for the feedback. I selected the bullets that were within 1 thou in their length from each other. I also only did one shot at each powder charge. After loading the COL varied between 2.798 and 2.802. Is that too much variation?

What should I be looking for at the target? Do I need to be doing multiple shots with each load and look at group sizes?

Any suggestions on a better way to go about this?

Thanks so much, just trying to figure this all out.

 

[Onyx Z]

It's not just the bullet consistency. Brass brand, lot, weight, volume, headspace, OAL, COAL, CBTO, etc. all need to be the same to produce ammo with the only variable being the powder charge. Do research on Audette Ladder Test and try to combine it with the Satterlee 10-round load development you attempted above.

 

[918v]

So I loaded up my first ladder and shot today and I am a bit confused.
I have a savage axis in 308.
I am using ELD-X 178 grain, in already fired Winchester brass, with Varget. I am using a Caldwell cronograph and shooting from the ground with a lead sled.
My primers are CCI 200.
Everything was loaded to 2.800 COL

I attached a chart of my fps. I had one give an error, and the one that dipped, I didn't seat the primer all the way in. Now I know to go back and fix that in the future. My issues, is I am not seeing a flat part. I used the Hornady manual and did from the smallest load to the largest that they recommended. Did I not use fine enough grains at .5? Any help would be great.

You should have started at 42 and gone until you seen or felt pressure signs.

 

[kresso]

Thanks everybody. I’m gonna get some better brass and get a little more experience and try again. I realize I did a number (a lot) of things wrong. I appreciate everyone’s help.

 

[canezach]

A few more recommendations:

1. Find the distance to your lands, and when you do, start seating your bullets by measuring to the ogive, not just cartridge overall length. Pick up a Hornady comparator and a set of good calipers for those measurements.

2. I would use 0.3 grain increments instead of 0.5

3. Seeing the "flat spot" in your graph doesn't mean literal plateau. It's more a gradual increase, or sometimes a slight decrease, in muzzle velocity as charge weight increases. Looking at your graph, I see plateauing at what I'm assuming is 40.5 to 41.0 and again at 41.5 to 42.0 grains. See how your velocity jumps by about 60 fps from 41.0 and 41.5, but only goes up by about 10 fps from 41.5 to 42.0? That's the flat spot.

4. While your Caldwell is better than nothing, see if you can borrow, beg, steal, or buy a LabRadar or Magnetospeed. Either will be far more accurate than your Caldwell

5. Increase the resolution on your chart to 10 fps increments and your charge weight to 0.3. It'll make the plateauing easier to identify.

6. Assuming those numbers are valid, I wouldn't bother loading anything below 40.0. I'd actually start at 41.0, assuming your velocities are accurate, and work up in 0.3 grain increments, looking for pressure signs every step of the way. If you see pressure signs at, let's say 42.2, for example, DO NOT attempt to shoot the 42.5 grain load. Even at 42.0 grains, you're still under 2600 fps, so I think you might be able to find another node that's a little faster.

7. Compare your target to your chrono and I'd wager your flat spot in velocities will correspond with a cluster of holes on paper at those same charge weights.

 

[kresso]

A few more recommendations:

1. Find the distance to your lands, and when you do, start seating your bullets by measuring to the ogive, not just cartridge overall length. Pick up a Hornady comparator and a set of good calipers for those measurements.

2. I would use 0.3 grain increments instead of 0.5

3. Seeing the "flat spot" in your graph doesn't mean literal plateau. It's more a gradual increase, or sometimes a slight decrease, in muzzle velocity as charge weight increases. Looking at your graph, I see plateauing at what I'm assuming is 40.5 to 41.0 and again at 41.5 to 42.0 grains. See how your velocity jumps by about 60 fps from 41.0 and 41.5, but only goes up by about 10 fps from 41.5 to 42.0? That's the flat spot.

4. While your Caldwell is better than nothing, see if you can borrow, beg, steal, or buy a LabRadar or Magnetospeed. Either will be far more accurate than your Caldwell

5. Increase the resolution on your chart to 10 fps increments and your charge weight to 0.3. It'll make the plateauing easier to identify.

6. Assuming those numbers are valid, I wouldn't bother loading anything below 40.0. I'd actually start at 41.0, assuming your velocities are accurate, and work up in 0.3 grain increments, looking for pressure signs every step of the way. If you see pressure signs at, let's say 42.2, for example, DO NOT attempt to shoot the 42.5 grain load. Even at 42.0 grains, you're still under 2600 fps, so I think you might be able to find another node that's a little faster.

7. Compare your target to your chrono and I'd wager your flat spot in velocities will correspond with a cluster of holes on paper at those same charge weights.

Thanks. I’ll make sure to measure from the ogive and do some smaller increments. I’ll start up higher in loads next time as well. I really appreciate you taking the time to help fill me in some more on the next steps. Gotta find a friend with a good chronograph

 

[canezach]

One more thing: when you're looking for a flat spot in the velocities, your window isn't large. Sometimes it might only be 0.3 grains or 0.5 grains, like hot graph above. If you see that flat spot from 42.0 to 42.3, split the difference and go with 42.1 or 42.15, if your scale allows for that resolution.