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Should Dueling Be Legalized?

Should dueling be legalized?

  • Yes

    Votes: 64 79.0%
  • No

    Votes: 8 9.9%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 3.7%
  • Depends - Please Explain

    Votes: 6 7.4%

  • Total voters
    81

Longshot231

Four Star General
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Mar 8, 2018
    10,964
    37,861
    In the interest of full disclosure, I think dueling should be legalized. IMHO, people would act in a more civil manner if they think that their words or actions would have serious consequences.

    Here's one Missouri Senator that wants to legalize dueling between the state's legislators.

     
    Last edited:
    First American Dueling Rules written in 1838 by John Lyde Wilson, Governor of South Carolina.

    Public sanctioned bloodshed is not a society builder. Resolving differences in courts makes a lot more sense. I doubt there are any who believe that God sanctions judicial combat or takes an interest in duelists and chooses the victor.
     
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    Screenshot_20240126-133140-669.png
     
    Fuck dueling.

    I try to stay out of trouble that would lead to it, If you piss me off that bad I'll just shoot you in the back. With a stripped down H&K river bottom special.
     
    Lots of things that might work in a homogenous society where everyone shares the same culture, beliefs, values, and morals doesn't work at all in a pluralistic, diverse society. Ritualized combat is certainly one of those things.
     
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    First American Dueling Rules written in 1838 by John Lyde Wilson, Governor of South Carolina.

    Public sanctioned bloodshed is not a society builder. Resolving differences in courts makes a lot more sense. I doubt there are any who believe that God sanctions judicial combat or takes an interest in duelists and chooses the victor.

    Resolving differences in court makes a lot more sense if we didn't have crooked judges.
     
    Resolving differences in court makes a lot more sense if we didn't have crooked judges.
    Both court and dueling leave a lot to be desired. The only ones that win in court are the lawyers.

    I guess sitting down and reasoning things out with truth, honor, and virtue is out.

    How dare I even think it.
     
    Hollywood immortalized "dueling". History has proven that it was rare, most people were shot from ambush or back shot. Very few men were successful at true dueling Hicock, Harden, John Hick Adams and a handful of others made a habit out of it. Mostly it was people like Billy the Kid, Doc holliday and Clay Allison were more "infamous" than famous backshooters
     
    Most duels were "first blood" affairs. Pretty rare for it to be a duel to the death, but it did happen.

    And if you insulted someone and got called on it you were usually given a choice. Apologize/recant your statement... Or square up. People were a bit more judicious before they ran their mouths.

    Of course this was all back when women had to have permission to speak in public... Might be entertaining with today's "liberated" women having to face off against each other.

    Mike
     
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    Women couldn’t duel.

    Men were usually content to end it at first blood or fire into the air. We recognize that getting shot, stabbed or cut hurts. We also know that even fist fighting is a helluva lot of work if not one breaks it up pretty quick.

    Chicks are crazy and every duel would be a bloodbath.
     
    Women couldn’t duel.

    Men were usually content to end it at first blood or fire into the air. We recognize that getting shot, stabbed or cut hurts. We also know that even fist fighting is a helluva lot of work if not one breaks it up pretty quick.

    Chicks are crazy and every duel would be a bloodbath.

    And given our luck, only the ugly ones would win.
     
    So what's worse; getting killed in a duel or living to tell about how you got shot in the ass?

     
    And given our luck, only the ugly ones would win.

    The fat ones would lose as well and that's not okay.
    You would be hard pressed to get a better BJ than from a fat girl after you've thrown a little bacon grease on your weiner.
     
    Would there be a requirement to slap the person being challenged in the face with a leather glove?
     
    First American Dueling Rules written in 1838 by John Lyde Wilson, Governor of South Carolina.

    Public sanctioned bloodshed is not a society builder. Resolving differences in courts makes a lot more sense. I doubt there are any who believe that God sanctions judicial combat or takes an interest in duelists and chooses the victor.

    Send them to him and let him be the judge.
     
    Would there be a requirement to slap the person being challenged in the face with a leather glove?

    An attorney, in court, implied that he could beat me up. He said this several times during the hearing. He was a big mouth fat ass.

    After the trial, I wrote him a letter challenging him to a boxing match so he could have the opportunity to teach me a lesson.

    My attorney reviewed my letter and presented it to Mr. Fatass.

    I kept it legal without any threats. I was merely challenging him to a legally recognized form of athletic competition. I even told him that I would be willing to have one hand tied behind my back.

    A gadzillion copies of the challenge letter were made, then circulated around to court house employees who knew what he was like. The rest of the legal community got copies as well.

    I didn’t not know it at the time that the letter was presented but he had a reputation for bragging about beating people. He was in his 60s and should have known better than to shoot his mouth off without the ability or willingness to back it up.

    He never accepted my challenge. Mr. Fatass was also a big mouth coward.

    I heard that the judge, in my case, would ask him if he was ever going to accept my challenge. This, supposedly, would make him squirm.

    That’s the closest that I ever got to challenging someone to a duel without breaking the law.

    Even though I lost the court case the challenge was the most enjoyment I got from making him look like a fool. It was worth losing the court case.

    So did I win the duel by default? I don’t know.
     
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    So did I win the duel by default? I don’t know.
    Of course.
    In the Old Order, he was within rights to decline at the cost of dishonoring himself. …at a time when honor was the currency by which men held status, standing, and function in society.

    The duel was simply the mechanism that enforced that social order, when honor meant something. Bring back honor, and the duel will have its rightful place again.
     
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    An attorney, in court, implied that he could beat me up. He said this several times during the hearing. He was a big mouth fat ass.

    After the trial, I wrote him a letter challenging him to a boxing match so he could have the opportunity to teach me a lesson.

    My attorney reviewed my letter and presented it to Mr. Fatass.

    I kept it legal without any threats. I was merely challenging him to a legally recognized form of athletic competition. I even told him that I would be willing to have one hand tied behind my back.

    A gadzillion copies of the challenge letter were made, then circulated around to court house employees who knew what he was like. The rest of the legal community got copies as well.

    I didn’t not know it at the time that the letter was presented but he had a reputation for bragging about beating people. He was in his 60s and should have known better than to shoot his mouth off without the ability or willingness to back it up.

    He never accepted my challenge. Mr. Fatass was also a big mouth coward.

    I heard that the judge, in my case, would ask him if he was ever going to accept my challenge. This, supposedly, would make him squirm.

    That’s the closest that I ever got to challenging someone to a duel without breaking the law.

    Even though I lost the court case the challenge was the most enjoyment I got from making him look like a fool. It was worth losing the court case.

    So did I win the duel by default? I don’t know.
    Great story...

    And here's the thing: Loudmouth Fat ass (LMFA) just had to step into a ring and potentially take a few blows. Nothing life threatening. You could have wailed on him for 2 minutes and won the bout... But LMFA would still have his honor for at least having the sand to show up and back up his mouth

    But he didn't... And everyone who knows of your challenge knows exactly what kind of man LMFA is.

    Mike
     
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    Of course.
    In the Old Order, he was within rights to decline at the cost of dishonoring himself. …at a time when honor was the currency by which men held status, standing, and function in society.

    The duel was simply the mechanism that enforced that social order, when honor meant something. Bring back honor, and the duel will have its rightful place again.

    The "Old Order" were a handful of large landowners who had power because they had inherited status and money, not because they had any honor.

    Pushkin's young wife got drunk and then got frisky with a dueling expert who was also a womanizer. Pushkin challenged the man to a duel to "save his honor." Pushkin died while his wife, now sober, cried over him.

    Where is the honor in shooting an untrained man or taking advantage of his naive wife who loved him?

    Your average Master or grand Master has a .5 sec first shot from draw to an A ring at 10 yards. Who would want their son to face someone like that today? Now imagine a bully who is a Grand Master. he could basically get away with anything.

    Dueling benefited powerful bullies who had time and resources to become very good. It was their hobby. They got street cred within a small social circle and the rest of society lived in fear of them and refused to challenge them no matter how bad they were. Declining a duel was further used within that circle to further denigrate a good man to the benefit of that group.

    Yeah, there are romantic accounts of those men, but the reality is more like Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" and the Duck of Death.
     
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    The "Old Order" were a handful of large landowners who had power because they had inherited status and money, not because they had any honor.

    Pushkin's young wife got drunk and then got frisky with a dueling expert who was also a womanizer. Pushkin challenged the man to a duel to "save his honor." Pushkin died while his wife, now sober, cried over him.

    Where is the honor in shooting an untrained man or taking advantage of his naive wife who loved him?

    Your average Master or grand Master has a .5 sec first shot from draw to an A ring at 10 yards. Who would want their son to face someone like that today? Now imagine a bully who is a Grand Master. he could basically get away with anything.

    Dueling benefited powerful bullies who had time and resources to become very good. It was their hobby. They got street cred within a small social circle and the rest of society lived in fear of them and refused to challenge them no matter how bad they were. Declining a duel was further used within that circle to further denigrate a good man to the benefit of that group.

    Yeah, there are romantic accounts of those men, but the reality is more like Clint Eastwood's "Unforgiven" and the Duck of Death.

    Bullies still exist today but the ones that I've encountered were all cowards. When it came to fists and street fighting, they had glass jaws. They also didn't know how to fight anyone that likes to cheat with a little marshal arts sprinkled in.

    I'm not saying that you are entirely wrong nor are you entirely correct. Regardless, Pushkin might have been better off divorcing his whore wife. Back then, men had the upper hand in divorce cases. He could have kicked her to the curb then let the dueling expert have her, if he would take her.

    Back in my younger days if a girl that I took on a date started flirting with a guy too much, I left her. She was the one that FAFO. Women are like buses. If you miss one, there is another that comes along.

    You are correct that there is no honor in killing an untrained man unless he's a turd that doesn't have any decency or respect for others. There is no such thing as a fair poker game, fair divorce court or a fair fist fight.

    As far as honor goes, my Father use to tell me that when someone insulted me that it hurt them more when I laughed it off. It was a lesson that took me many years to learn but I have learned that when they don't get a reaction from me that it angers them even more.

    Yet, there are times when someone needs put in their place. The lawyer, in my story is a good example. He pulled every dirty trick in the book in court to win the case. He went too far when he said he could beat me up. That required a challenge.

    If dueling to the death were legal, I would have challenged him to the death. There are some other folks that I would like to challenge.

    Now if I'm correct on the customs, the person being challenged gets to choose the weapons. That's good because I suck a sword fighting. On the other hand, I would have fun insulting the honor of some real turds to the point that they would have to challenge me. I choose pistols at twenty paces.

    Before they decide to accept my challenge, I would be nice enough to demonstrate my skillsets. Satisfaction would be met if they signed a simple statement which reads, "I'm a POS."

    Some of what you say is true about the bullies but that's why they came up with rules for dueling in an attempt to keep it fair.

    Look up the case of Kenneth McElroy. He was a modern day bully. If Missouri would have had let citizens CCW back then he probably would not have got away with so much. Had dueling been legal, he might have been a challenger or not. One thing is certain, he wasn't brave but just big and stupid. That's also why there was more back shooting in the old west than the Hollywood gunfights in the street. That's why he was perforated from behind.

     
    I thought this book a good read on the topic: Dueling: The Cult of Honor in Fin-de-Siècle Germany

    Curious if anyone has other recommendations.
     
    I thought this book a good read on the topic: Dueling: The Cult of Honor in Fin-de-Siècle Germany

    Curious if anyone has other recommendations.
    I have read number 10 on this list. It was an excellent read.