Shoulder bump questions

[Dildobaggins]

New to reloading, but I want to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a 6br I'm building very soon.

I read a lot about bushing dies and FL dies. Bushing dies never really appealed to me. No idea why. I just FL size and mandrel. I've tried RCBS, Forster, and Redding dies. Redding seem to be my favorite.

However, I have a rock chucker press. I usually put the ram all the way up. Screw the die in until it touches, let the ram down and then give it another full turn. Then I'd FL size and go about my reloading process. I've come to the realization after watching a few videos that that's probably not going to breed consistency. I want to started checking if my cases need to be bumped.

So my questions.
What fl dies do you recommend for the 6br?
What comparator do you recommend?

Lastly, would I take a fired case and put it in the comparator and then set the FL die to bump the shoulder back .002? Is that how all this works?
Holy shit I feel stupid.

 

[CK1.0]

Get whatever dies you want and whatever comparator you want… some cost more, some less, they all do pretty much the same thing.

For the Hornady headspace comparator you’ll want a .350” and/or .375” insert (either/or should work).

Put a fired case in the comparator to measure it and/or zero it out so you can measure your desired shoulder bump.

IME just screwing a FL die in until touching the shellplate is already too much… use the comparator.

 

[Dildobaggins]

Get whatever dies you want and whatever comparator you want… some cost more, some less, they all do pretty much the same thing.

For the Hornady headspace comparator you’ll want a .350” and/or .375” insert (either/or should work).

Put a fired case in the comparator to measure it and/or zero it out so you can measure your desired shoulder bump.

IME just screwing a FL die in until touching the shellplate is already too much… use the comparator.

Good info. Thank you. I got that idea of the die touching the shellplate from an RCBS video on reloading for beginners. Lol

 

[David Lepley]

Short Action Customs comparator works great, now the comparator inserts also work with their new powder funnel.

 

[supercorndogs]

And that is why I don't buy peoples brass with multiple firings on it. The two main killers of brass seem to be overpressure and over sizing.

 

[SporterII]

De prime or re seat the primer checking a fired case.

 

[918v]

New to reloading, but I want to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a 6br I'm building very soon.

I read a lot about bushing dies and FL dies. Bushing dies never really appealed to me. No idea why. I just FL size and mandrel. I've tried RCBS, Forster, and Redding dies. Redding seem to be my favorite.

However, I have a rock chucker press. I usually put the ram all the way up. Screw the die in until it touches, let the ram down and then give it another full turn. Then I'd FL size and go about my reloading process. I've come to the realization after watching a few videos that that's probably not going to breed consistency. I want to started checking if my cases need to be bumped.

So my questions.
What fl dies do you recommend for the 6br?
What comparator do you recommend?

Lastly, would I take a fired case and put it in the comparator and then set the FL die to bump the shoulder back .002? Is that how all this works?
Holy shit I feel stupid.

I recommend an inverted .40 S&W case for a comparator and a neck honed to your desired diameter Forster FL sizing die.

 

[Cfshooter]

The LE Wilson dies are nice, but the RCBS FL work just fine too. I would suggest however removing expander and just use mandrel to open necks back up.

 

[txtaxman]

New to reloading, but I want to squeeze every bit of accuracy out of a 6br I'm building very soon.

I read a lot about bushing dies and FL dies. Bushing dies never really appealed to me. No idea why. I just FL size and mandrel. I've tried RCBS, Forster, and Redding dies. Redding seem to be my favorite.

However, I have a rock chucker press. I usually put the ram all the way up. Screw the die in until it touches, let the ram down and then give it another full turn. Then I'd FL size and go about my reloading process. I've come to the realization after watching a few videos that that's probably not going to breed consistency. I want to started checking if my cases need to be bumped.

So my questions.
What fl dies do you recommend for the 6br?
What comparator do you recommend?

Lastly, would I take a fired case and put it in the comparator and then set the FL die to bump the shoulder back .002? Is that how all this works?
Holy shit I feel stupid.

Shoulder bump is not required, until clearance is needed. It usually takes about three firings for a case to be fully fireformed, so neck size until the fired case stops growing. At that point, set your die for the desired bump. I use the Hornady Headspace Comparator.

About this point the issue of variation in the amount of bump often arises. I suggest using Redding Competition Shellholders to go with your Redding FL die. This allows one to maintain firm contact between the die and the shellholder for the most uniform bump.

 

[Dildobaggins]

Shoulder bump is not required, until clearance is needed. It usually takes about three firings for a case to be fully fireformed, so neck size until the fired case stops growing. At that point, set your die for the desired bump. I use the Hornady Headspace Comparator.

About this point the issue of variation in the amount of bump often arises. I suggest using Redding Competition Shellholders to go with your Redding FL die. This allows one to maintain firm contact between the die and the shellholder for the most uniform bump.

Here's a question. Redding has 6br rem dies. Are these the same as 6br norma? Having a hard time finding any does that don't say 6br rem.

 

[txtaxman]

Here's a question. Redding has 6br rem dies. Are these the same as 6br norma? Having a hard time finding any does that don't say 6br rem.

I do not know.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Shoulder bump is not required, until clearance is needed. It usually takes about three firings for a case to be fully fireformed, so neck size until the fired case stops growing. At that point, set your die for the desired bump. I use the Hornady Headspace Comparator.

About this point the issue of variation in the amount of bump often arises. I suggest using Redding Competition Shellholders to go with your Redding FL die. This allows one to maintain firm contact between the die and the shellholder for the most uniform bump.

This x2
I don’t worry about bump shoulder back until I have a couple reloads on the cases.

 

[smoothy8500]

The Redding dies work for all flavors of 6mmBR; Norma, Remington, and Lapua. The difference is in neck lengths, but dies aren't affected by neck length, just diameter. Are using a "no-turn" neck chamber, or neck turning?

 

[Dildobaggins]

The Redding dies work for all flavors of 6mmBR; Norma, Remington, and Lapua. The difference is in neck lengths, but dies aren't affected by neck length, just diameter. Are using a "no-turn" neck chamber, or neck turning?

Okay, that's what I thought, but wanted to be sure. No turn chamber.

 

[Blackice55]

This x2
I don’t worry about bump shoulder back until I have a couple reloads on the cases.

How much do you see the brass grow after your second firing?

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Too many factors to take into consideration to give a number.


If you're starting with brand new brass measure datum line of say 100 cases.

Pull the ejector and extractor out of your bolt push a case into the chamber and close the bolt then start stacking pieces of 3M scotch brand tape on the bolt face one piece at a time until you feel the bolt face dragging on the case head.
Each piece of tape is about .002" of an inch thick.
Times the number of pieces of tape by .002 and this will give you headspace of that particular case.
I like to keep firing cases until .000 headspace and then pump the shoulder back .002.

 

[918v]

Or just be normal and bump your shoulders .002” from the get go. No need to disassemble the bolt and other crazy shit.

 

[Dildobaggins]

Or just be normal and bump your shoulders .002” from the get go. No need to disassemble the bolt and other crazy shit.

My question is this. And forgive my stupidity. I'm new to reloading. But if I'm full length sizing after every firing, then why do people suggest taking the measurement on the third firing?

 

[Blackice55]

My brass has always been super consistent after the first firing. I always bump it the same amount and it expands the same amount after the second firing. I’m perfectly content bumping it after the first firing.

Everyone reloads different.

 

[918v]

My question is this. And forgive my stupidity. I'm new to reloading. But if I'm full length sizing after every firing, then why do people suggest taking the measurement on the third firing?

They don’t want you to FL size until the third firing. This is so the case can completely fill the chamber.

 

[Forrest84]

Here's a question. Redding has 6br rem dies. Are these the same as 6br norma? Having a hard time finding any does that don't say 6br rem.

Yes they are essentially the same, I’ve been using the Redding typ s bushing full length sizer it’s been 100%

 

[Dildobaggins]

They don’t want you to FL size until the third firing. This is so the case can completely fill the chamber.

Alright, so to accomplish this Ill need to go get a neck only sizing die? Anyway it can be done with an FL die if I back it out enough?

 

[CK1.0]

Alright, so to accomplish this Ill need to go get a neck only sizing die? Anyway it can be done with an FL die if I back it out enough?

Don't worry about it.

Brass is malleable, but not play-doh, so it takes ~3 firings for it to fully blow out.

You can still FL size every time, just measure ~10 or so, and set your die to bump the longest ones by -2 thou. After the 3rd firing, the shoulders should all measure out fairly consistently, and then you can reset your FL die to bump more precisely if needed.

 

[Dildobaggins]

Don't worry about it.

Brass is malleable, but not play-doh, so it takes ~3 firings for it to fully blow out.

You can still FL size every time, just measure ~10 or so, and set your die to bump the longest ones by -2 thou. After the 3rd firing, the shoulders should all measure out fairly consistently, and then you can reset your FL die to bump more precisely if needed.

Thanks man!

 

[Marine52]

Don't worry about it.

Brass is malleable, but not play-doh, so it takes ~3 firings for it to fully blow out.

You can still FL size every time, just measure ~10 or so, and set your die to bump the longest ones by -2 thou. After the 3rd firing, the shoulders should all measure out fairly consistently, and then you can reset your FL die to bump more precisely if needed.

This is good advice. As with most advice to new reloaders, the answer is “it depends.” If you’re only banging steel or target shooting with your friends , then an occasional stiff bolt or hard-to-chamber round is no big deal. You can push the limit and wait til case dimensions reach the chamber limit. But you still need to have a headspace gauge and check your case dimensions for safety.
However, if you compete F-class, PRS, whatever, then it is crucial that when you chamber a round it will go in easy with no fuss. all the rounds! if things can go wrong they will. Dust, rain, dirt can really screw you up if your case is ultra tight to the chamber. So most of us who compete FL resize every time and in the vicinity of .001-.002 bump from your fire-formed cases.

 

[Baron85]

The reason they say to wait 2-3 firings is because the brass is springy or elastic. When fired the brass expands to fill the chamber but once the pressure is gone it will retract or shrink some. Not all the way to the side it was before firing but somewhere in between.

Same thing happens when you re size a case. The die will for example bump the shoulder back .003” and shrink the neck diameter .003 but then once the brass is pulled out of the die it will “spring back” or expand some to say .002 bump and .002 neck.

These are all figurative numbers to help explain.

As far as bushing vs non bushing, I have both. Started with non, switched to bushing, and now switching back to honed non bushing. I have found the necks are not as concentric with the bushing dies. Doesn’t seem to be affecting my accuracy but it’s affecting my giraurd trimmer. The brass is trimming uneven with the bushing dies. I also have noticed I get donuts with the bushing dies that I didn’t have issues with when using the non bushing dies.

Last thing I bump shoulders every time, I need 100% reliable ammo, I don’t want to have hard bolt close in the middle of a match because a few rounds are a little too snug. I aim for .002 bump and use Redding competition shell holders to adjust the bump as needed. The competition shell holder set comes with different height holders to adjust and still allow you to bottom out your die. I have had more consistent bumps doing it this way vs adjusting the die and not always making solid contact with the holder. I also have found that holding the handle down on the press for 2-3 second has made the shoulder bump more consistent vs a fast up and down.

 

[Dildobaggins]

The reason they say to wait 2-3 firings is because the brass is springy or elastic. When fired the brass expands to fill the chamber but once the pressure is gone it will retract or shrink some. Not all the way to the side it was before firing but somewhere in between.

Same thing happens when you re size a case. The die will for example bump the shoulder back .003” and shrink the neck diameter .003 but then once the brass is pulled out of the die it will “spring back” or expand some to say .002 bump and .002 neck.

These are all figurative numbers to help explain.

As far as bushing vs non bushing, I have both. Started with non, switched to bushing, and now switching back to honed non bushing. I have found the necks are not as concentric with the bushing dies. Doesn’t seem to be affecting my accuracy but it’s affecting my giraurd trimmer. The brass is trimming uneven with the bushing dies. I also have noticed I get donuts with the bushing dies that I didn’t have issues with when using the non bushing dies.

Last thing I bump shoulders every time, I need 100% reliable ammo, I don’t want to have hard bolt close in the middle of a match because a few rounds are a little too snug. I aim for .002 bump and use Redding competition shell holders to adjust the bump as needed. The competition shell holder set comes with different height holders to adjust and still allow you to bottom out your die. I have had more consistent bumps doing it this way vs adjusting the die and not always making solid contact with the holder. I also have found that holding the handle down on the press for 2-3 second has made the shoulder bump more consistent vs a fast up and down.

Thank you for the explanation! Much appreciated man! Going to look into the competition shell holders as well.

 

[918v]

Don't worry about it.

Brass is malleable, but not play-doh, so it takes ~3 firings for it to fully blow out.

You can still FL size every time, just measure ~10 or so, and set your die to bump the longest ones by -2 thou. After the 3rd firing, the shoulders should all measure out fairly consistently, and then you can reset your FL die to bump more precisely if needed.

Excellent advice. If you do dat your brass life will be maximized with minimum effort. Your primer pockets will fail long before the case head will.

 

[JAS-SH]

I just saw this yesterday from Area 419 on the tube. Might be worth a look:

 

[Mike Casselton]

Okay, that's what I thought, but wanted to be sure. No turn chamber.

The Redding dies fit all four of my chambers very well.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

My question is this. And forgive my stupidity. I'm new to reloading. But if I'm full length sizing after every firing, then why do people suggest taking the measurement on the third firing?

Like everyone else (including me) in the history of learning how to reload your overthinking things.
This is simple, just raise the die high enough in the press so it's not kicking the shoulder back.

 

[Dildobaggins]

Like everyone else (including me) in the history of learning how to reload your overthinking things.
This is simple, just raise the die high enough in the press so it's not kicking the shoulder back.

Yep. As always fr me. Either over thinking, or not thinking enough.

 

[Smokin7s]

My question is this. And forgive my stupidity. I'm new to reloading. But if I'm full length sizing after every firing, then why do people suggest taking the measurement on the third firing?

Just bump it .002 after the first firing you can check every discipline in the us and ask every person 99% of them fl size .002 after the first firing. That’s the problem with being a new guy on a forum too many people can send you goofy ass answers from something .1 % of shooters do