shoulder bumping with redding dies or modified lee

[doctordoctor]

Okay guys back again!!! Thank you for the help!!! your knowledge has been a life saver/money saver.

So I recieved a beautiful gift the other day... a set of redding type S neck sizing dies with a body die and a bullet seater. so now the confusion begins, how do i bump the shoulder back .002-.003" before using these new dies? I am assuming the redding dies are the way to go.. the price sure makes them seem like they should be. Can I modify my Lee die to make it only bump the shoulder and not touch the neck?

So here is the process I was thinking of using:

1) deprime using the Lee universal decapper/depriming die

2) Clean the brass in my soon to be ordered Ultra sonic cleaner

3) Anneal if needed

4) Bump my shell casings back.

5)neck size with the Type s die

6) trim if needed

etc.

My biggest question is Step 4 (shoulder bumping) can I bump my shoulder ONLY by removing the decaping rod from the Lee FL die???? My understanding is that the Redding full body die will not FL and not bump the shoulder back onlyor can it???


Please correct where I am wrong!

 

[justinbaker]

Re: shoulder bumping with redding dies or modified lee

the redding is all you need

the body die will bump the shoulder. To measure how much you will need a case comparator

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/...with-comparator


and if you can swing the extra coin, forget about the ultrasonic cleaner, they are a pain in the ass

instead get setup for stainless media cleaning

 

[jagged77]

Re: shoulder bumping with redding dies or modified lee

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: justinbaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">the redding is all you need

the body die will bump the shoulder. To measure how much you will need a case comparator

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/...with-comparator


and if you can swing the extra coin, forget about the ultrasonic cleaner, they are a pain in the ass

instead get setup for stainless media cleaning </div></div>

Yep agree with you on the Redding body die and the Stainless Steel over the Ultrasonic, definitely the best option.

The Redding body die will full length size the case from the shoulder down, leaving only the neck diameter untouched (for you then to use your neck sizing die). Forget about using your Lee F/L die, the Redding is the way to go.

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: shoulder bumping with redding dies or modified lee

I disagree with the ultrasonic method being a pain in the ass, but I'm a chemist and my mantra is: all problems can be solved with chemistry. I don't have any real data, but any physical method (media polishing) it seems is going to remove metal from the case. What's more, beating your brass up with hard heavy particles of stainless steel (called shot peening in the metallurgical realm) is going to work-harden it and you'll need to anneal more often.

I use a home-made cleaner that is dirt simple and very effective: take a 1 gallon bottle of distilled water; add 1 tablespoon of powdered citric acid and 1/2 teaspoon powdered sodium lauryl sulfate. Citric acid can be found at big-box home improvement stores like Lowes or Home Depot as a "water softener cleaner" (Filter-Mate). I've tested "Filter-Mate" and it's 95% pure citric acid.

Sodium lauryl sulfate is a little harder to come by in pure powdered form, but it is just an anionic organo-sulfate surfactant or, in layman's terms: "detergent" so you can use household detergents to the same effect. It's best to use one that doesn't have alkaline softeners like sodium carbonate or sodium tetraborate (borax) as these tend to neutralize the citric acid (laundry detergents and automatic-dishwasher have these). A good eco-friendly liquid dish washing detergent (like clorox "green-works" dish detergent) is probably a good substitute since it won't have perfumes and dyes and is mostly sodium lauryl sulfate (10-15% according to the MSDS); use about a tablespoon of this per gallon.

I run my decapped dirty brass in an ultrasonic cleaner with a heater for 4 or 5 of the longest cycles (480 seconds), rinse with hot tap water, then final rinse with very hot distilled water (the hotter, the quicker they dry). If I'm going to resize the brass, I'll clean it first as above, skipping the distilled rinse, then lube and size and run them through another cycle in the US cleaner to remove the case lube, then rinse as above with distilled water.

They don't come out mirror polished, but they are clean as a whistle and I don't worry about losing any metal or work-hardening my cases.

Before and after shots (actually after/before in the first shot):

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: shoulder bumping with redding dies or modified lee

Surgically clean (and polished) cases look pretty but they add nothing to a reload's performance. Getting cases totally clean is time consuming and expensive too. Many of us who have tried Ultrasonics and wet/steel rotary tumbers have gone back to our old viberator tumblers.

From a practical perspective, we can leave cases in a vib tumbler with normal metal polish a week and couldn't measure any dimensional change. And, considering how tiny the vib effect is, there will be no work hardening or peening that matters from any tumbling method.

Removing the expander from an FL die only affects the expanding, the neck still gets squeezed down the same.

A body die sizes the body, which includes the shoulder, but it will not size the neck. A growing number of us use a body die in conjunction with a Lee Collet neck die to obtain the best sized cases we can without fussing around with bushings.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: shoulder bumping with redding dies or modified lee

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgically clean (and polished) cases look pretty but they add nothing to a reload's performance. Getting cases totally clean is time consuming and expensive too.</div></div>

Some of us don't do it for pretty, some of us just do it to <span style="font-style: italic">ensure</span> that our sacred dies and chambers stay sacred. In that regard, it's well worth whatever time and money....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Many of us who have tried Ultrasonics and wet/steel rotary tumbers have gone back to our old viberator tumblers.</div></div>

Never found a need to try anything other than my old vib tumbler with treated corn cob....I use two of 'em actually.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
From a practical perspective, we can leave cases in a vib tumbler with normal metal polish a week and couldn't measure any dimensional change. And, considering how tiny the vib effect is, there will be no work hardening or peening that matters from any tumbling method.</div></div>

Absolutely agreed with that.....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Removing the expander from an FL die only affects the expanding, the neck still gets squeezed down the same.</div></div>

That too.......

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
without fussing around with bushings. </div></div>

Another thing I've found no need to try. It just humps people all the hell up to try and comprehend good ammo via, old school, correctly set up, FL dies.

 

[crowsniper1]

Re: shoulder bumping with redding dies or modified lee

I use a RCBS precision mic to set my headspace.I just drop in a fired piece of brass take a measurement and slowly adjust the die down until i bump the shoulder back about .003