Shoulder sizing impass

[Carlos Danger]

This is my first thread on here but I've responded to a couple and of course flamed because of my name but let's let bygones be bygones. I'm new to reloading (approx. 3 months) and I've enjoyed it more than I thought but I'm running into small issues, most of which I figured out or overcame. This one I can't quite put my finger on.

Am I missing something here? I've been thinking that maybe I'm not pushing shoulders back enough when sizing. I full length size each time and I've read the full vs bump opinions. Let's just say for now I'm full sizing.

As I think back I can remember firing some reloads which maybe didn't allow the bolt to close like butter. This leads me to believe one of two things. Either the case length is too long or the shoulder is too far forward. I size all my brass to specified length or 1-2 thou shorter. Rule of thumb as I understand it is set the sizing die to touch the plate then back off 1/4 to 1 full, depending on who you read.

So I did an experiment and set the die to touch and even to slightly over cam to make sure the case was going as deep as it could. When I compared it to a factory unfired round this was the result.

Sized Case:

Factory case

I'm only using the bullet comparator in conjunction with the headspace gauge as an anvil, or flat even surface, until the actual Hornady anvil comes in.

So I cant send the case and deeper to push the shoulder back. The plate will only go to the top of the stroke. I saw a vid where one guy has different "height" shell holders but that's on single stage press. Since the die is in a fixed position, they switch to a "taller" shell holder to allow them to force the case deeper into the die.

I did have some issues where some .243 loads were pushing out primers but according to my loading data, I was not really close enough to max load. I started to think the cases might have been too tight in the chamber, which is how this sort of came about.

What am I missing here? Any input / guidance you can offer would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Cliff's:

Hornady 6mm Creed cases, once fired.
Hornady match grade full length die with neck bushing.
Reloading equipment below.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I'm not seeing the case pictures. What are you using to measure the case head to shoulder?

 

[Carlos Danger]

Sorry. I thought they posted up. This work?

 

[Supersubes]

Measure a fired and deprimed case, as it will be chamber length. Compare that with yoursized case. How long are the cases that don’t chamber well, from your old die setting?

No need for an anvil, just use the opposing jaw of the caliper.

Regarding the vid you saw of the of the shell holders. I’m assuming it was the Redding comp shell holders? Yes they’re taller, but not in the way you think. There’s more material on top, which holds the case further out of the die, in .002” steps. So standard shellholder is the most sizing, and the tallest comp shellholder is .010 less sizing.

And you never said if the fully sized case chambers properly?

Edit: I thought I was seeing all zero’s on your caliper...is the virgin case .003 longer? If so, what’s the problem? And by that I mean, back the die off until you get the number you want based off of the fired cases, not a virgin piece of brass/factory round.

 

[tnichols]

Some food for thought. I use a Dillon 550 as a single stage for precision rifle. Due to their shell plate set up, in my experience, you will not be able to bump a shoulder back because the die will bottom out on the shell plate before the case shoulder can be set back. I carefully take .040 to .060 off the bottom of the die (making the die shorter if you will) running it on the flat side of a bench grinder. Work slowly and keep the die cool with fluid. Chamfer the inside edge when finished. I can now bump .002 very consistently for the bolt rigs. If this is your issue, the above may help. YMMV

 

[Snuby642]

Been adjusting my 223 dies.
All the way down have me .008 below chamber. Ran the die up till I got. 004 below chamber.

Will see how they run soon.
That's for NATO gassers they have a huge chamber.

That's. 004 below go gauge instead of
.008

Loose the makeshift anvil like supersubs said and with light pressure on the case rotate it slowly to get your actual length.

Dented shoulders will not read right.

Is it possible you damaged your primer pocket? I decrimp and clean out pockets 100 -400 at a time and occasionally scrap a couple my bad.

 

[Diver160651]

Be careful~

You start numbing back .008 and your going to get case head seperatetions, especially on harder brass like Lapua.. he’ll constantly bumping .004 will cause issues down the road.

On a gasser case head separations are a much bigger deal than on a bolt gun..

 

[Snuby642]

@Diver160651

The factory brass on new rounds is at .008 below go gauge dim and of I set my die to full down that is also what I get.

So I have raised the die to get me .004 below go gauge dim.

Am I screwing up?

 

[tnichols]

I posted my response because my take was he’s not getting any shoulder bump/setback at all. I may be missing something though.

 

[Supersubes]

I posted my response because my take was he’s not getting any shoulder bump/setback at all. I may be missing something though.

That was what I thought at first too. Either way, a fired case is not likely coming out of his chamber the same as it went in, and if he’s getting the case back down to virgin length, I’d say that’s likely too much sizing. But he’s left out any details of his actual chamber dimension.

 

[Supersubes]

@Diver160651

The factory brass on new rounds is at .008 below go gauge dim and of I set my die to full down that is also what I get.

So I have raised the die to get me .004 below go gauge dim.

Am I screwing up?

Yes, you’re screwing up. Chambers are bigger than go gauges. Forget about the gauge. Your chamber is what matters.

 

[Snuby642]

This was all first fired range brass, I removed the crimp.
Its pristeen and from a private stash.

Not formed in any of our guns so I ran them to go in any chamber but not as short as factory loads.

I was bumping to factory specs in the past by default of die instructions now we have the shoulder comparitor.

First fired from our guns got mixed in the gassers.

Tumbled on the right

 

[Supersubes]

This was all first fired range brass, I removed the crimp.
Its pristeen and from a private stash.

Not formed in any of our guns so I ran them to go in any chamber but not as short as factory loads.

I was bumping to factory specs in the past by default of die instructions now we have the shoulder comparitor.

First fired from our guns got mixed in the gassers.View attachment 7042632

Tumbled on the right

Your chamber is what matters.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Thanks for all the responses. Let me do some research and digging to see what I can come up with. I just wanted to see of there's some unspoken part of the process.i event getting straight.

 

[Steel head]

Yes, you’re screwing up. Chambers are bigger than go gauges. Forget about the gauge. Your chamber is what matters.

This.

 

[Snuby642]

Will see how this goes as soon as the wind stops blowing + 20 w × nw.
Hard to do load development for me.