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Sierra matchkings for hunting?

M

mciver

Private
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 11, 2009
96
0
Olympia, WA
Hey guys,
Been hearing alot of talk about MK's being used as a hunting round...anyone have any insight? Used bergers, sciroccos, accubonds, etc...but never matchkings.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Iv never had anything walk away from a matchking, thats all I use. Deer is the largest animal we shoot around here, so anything deer and smaller i'd say your gtg.

X2
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STWguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey guys,
Been hearing alot of talk about MK's being used as a hunting round...anyone have any insight? Used bergers, sciroccos, accubonds, etc...but never matchkings. </div></div>

Sierra does not recommend the MKs for hunting. This being said, the US military uses them (a couple at least) in its ammunition, so they can't be too bad.

Chris
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

The AMAX does an excellent job on game and is very accurate. A couple of friends used factory 168 AMAX loads for hunting deer and they said they don't get far after being shot.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChrisGarrett</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sierra does not recommend the MKs for hunting. This being said, the US military uses them (a couple at least) in its ammunition, so they can't be too bad.

Chris </div></div>

This is misleading at best, the US military uses the 77gr SMK in the Mk262 loading because the bullet does not contravene the treaty of The Hague on the use of expanding bullets for warfare. The SMK is not designed to expand, its hollow point is an artifact of its manufacture. I believe the M118LR is now loaded with the 175gr SMK and again is it is not an expanding bullet.

Match bullets are a poor choice for hunting in my estimation as they are not designed to expand or hold together or whatever when they get to the target, they are just designed to get there as accurately as possible. Whatever happens when they get there is not something you can predict accurately. Sierra does warn you not to use them for hunting so they must have a good reason for that.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

As noted above, the military uses what its allowed to use. That does not mean its the best thing out there (think about handgun ammo--if you were shooting at Johnnie Jihad up close with a 9mm, would you rather use hollow points or FMJs?). They make hunting bullets for a reason. Sierra makes GameKings in similiar/same weights as SMKs. Yeah, SMKs will kill a deer. So will a .22. Shot placement matters, yada yada. Use the proper tool for the job. Just my opinion.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

My viewpoint is that not only are match bullets pretty far down on my list of desirable bullets for hunting, I also believe that with the plethora of highly capable commercial hunting loads available, there is little if anything to be gained from attempting to develop most any hunting load.

If anything, when I cross that line between hunting and match bullets, it's to employ some of the really good hunting bullets for match usage, like Ballistic Tips and Accu-Bonds, Combined Technology, and Blitz and V-Max, with an eye to crafting dual purpose loads. Even the lowly and oft maligned flat based Core-Lokt can be useful in a match load that doesn't need to cover long distances. Most of my serious hunting loads are either Rem Core-Lokt Express, or Win CXP commercial offerings.

While I have reservations about using the 6.5mm SST's for match work, they make a really good hunting load. Generally what hunting loads I do make up are done with remainders of batches of hunting bullets that I failed to get match accuracy out of.

Not necessarily the bullet's fault, more a product of my own lack of enthusiasm for diverting match load development time for hunting ammo purposes, and my reluctance to invest tons of time making a non-responsive bullet work. My accuracy requirements are far less stringent for these 'orphan component' loads. These days, even with components beginning to reappear, I remain very frugal regarding load development.

Greg
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Very unpredictable. Sierra in general. They tend to shed the jackets if they expand at all. Sometimes pencil through. Sometimes explode. Sometimes do a fair job. I stopped using SMKs for this reason. I also stopped using SGK. Last deer was with berger. It worked. Deer die easily, most of the time.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

i3zo190.jpg


Notice how this 190 gr. Sierra MK out of a 300 Win. Mag. just penciled right through doing hardly any damage.

In my humble opinion, there is far too much fuss made about premium bullets, bullet expansion, etc. People kill stuff with arrows that don't expand at all; ditto for muzzle loader and shotgun rounds. The key to killing an animal is to hit it in the right place. If a MK was the most accurate bullet I could find, I would not hesitate to use it in the proper weight for just about anything.

As far as blowing up; I don't think so. If anything, the MK would give excellent penetration more on par with a solid. If one hits bone then there are more missiles to do damage. If it separates from the jacket or tumbles, it just does that much more damage.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

My only concern was the lack of expansion. I used 175Mk's for paper bad guys and love them. Like I said, I have had great luck with the bonded bullets...just have a ton of these loaded up and recently heard scuttle butt about them being used for game. I dont wanna just punch little holes through animals all day, ya know. Shots where I hunt range from 200-400 yards on avarage...with some a little farther. May have to stick to the accubonds and barnes.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

I know you asked about MK's but in my experience the 178gr Amax fills the bill for both Match and hunting. Actually the same for the 75gr Amax in 223.

Keith
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Personally I wouldn't use them, but with that being said, I have a bunch of friends using the berger VLD's and having good results and some of them of used MK's in the past. But shot placement is everyting. On prarie dogs they do the job. I choose not to used them on the western game I hunt.
BT
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

This little yote ran into a 175 SMK. As you can plainly see, no expansion whatsoever. Clearly, SMK's have no role in hunting. Plenty has been posted on this very subject. It is a very polarized topic. Good luck with your hunt!
100_0700.jpg
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Ya...shitty expansion on that yote! LOL. My main concern/question is that I have been really stuck on the 150gr range for hunting...and have such good luck with the MK's at the 175gr range that I wonder if I'm shorting myself when puttin' down hairy critters. I want to work a load for mule deer to elk...tired of (ignoranlty) switching back and forth.
Malc
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ffl medic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This little yote ran into a 175 SMK. As you can plainly see, no expansion whatsoever. Clearly, SMK's have no role in hunting. Plenty has been posted on this very subject. It is a very polarized topic.</div></div>

Yes, the yote would have been much deader and you would have shown more respect for it if you had used something expensive like a Barnes MRX.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: STWguy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya...shitty expansion on that yote! LOL. My main concern/question is that I have been really stuck on the 150gr range for hunting...and have such good luck with the MK's at the 175gr range that I wonder if I'm shorting myself when puttin' down hairy critters. I want to work a load for mule deer to elk...tired of (ignoranlty) switching back and forth.
Malc </div></div>

This is a pretty long running debate that will not end in this thread but here is a quick summary for you.

Some say that the match bullets are more accurate and better for hunting since there is potential for better shot placement and a cleaner more humane kill.

Others argue that since the bullets weren't designed for taking game that they don't expand properly, to much or to little, resulting in the game suffering unnecessarily. No hunter wants that, even when hunting varmints. The purpose is to eat or manage a population that is causing damage not torture animals.

Most manufactures don't recommend hunting with their match bullets so you can take them at their word and use their hunting bullets and be just fine or ignore them like many do and hunt with the same accurate load that you shoot targets with.

Myself along with many others hunt with 175 gn SMKs with very good results. I have never had a deer even run after being shot with one, they just fall over and stop moving.

The Berger VLDs are hunting bullets, at least that is what Berger has told me, so if you want a combo match hunting bullet you can work with those.

Really, if you are asking the question it is probably best to just buy a box of hunting ammo and use it. There are plenty of pretty close to match quality hunting ammo and even though it is expensive you aren't going to shoot 4 boxes of it at an F class match so it shouldn't really matter.

If you are hunting mule deer or elk you probably want something bigger than a 150 gn bullet if you are going to be at any distance. Something in the 165-180 gn range is going to me more in line with a recommended bullet weight for an elk.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Balistic-tips!!! Amax work great as well. When me and my father started shooting BR comps back in 2001 the nosler BT's was one of the betters bullets and more consistent bullets we could find. of corse we moved on to the match grade bullets of sierra and begers but they still shot very well.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

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Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Ha, nice Chad! Montana summed it up well. Sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. My results have been the same. Just shoot a berger if you want a match bullet that will work well on game.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

I know it is an excuse, but I don't have any pics of the elk I HAVE shot with the 175 SMK They are on a cell phone camera with some really poor resolution. Those elk are extremely dead and extremely good. But they are also all gone. Freezer is empty. Time for more.

If it expanded on something as small as a coyote, wouldn't it stand to reason that something tougher would also initiate expansion as well? Use whatever you will. Let the facts fall where they may; and the opinions well...
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

The premise is flawed in my opinion. A bullet that is not designed to expand would not be my choice to punch through the front shoulders of an elk. On the other hand , if I am hunting private ground with animals that are not being pushed and chased and the chances are I will be shooting an animal in it's bed with a steady rest then it makes no difference if I shoot him in the burr of the ear with a SMK or a Nosler hunting bullet.

Conditions surrounding the shot are all that really matters. I know guys who will not fire at at game unless they are not moving. perfectly broadside and less then 200 yards. So? They put a SMK in the burr of the deer or Elks ear, It will not make any difference to that guy. I hunt trophy Blacktail bucks. I like my .300 with 180 Ballistic tips as they will near ruin both front shoulders. I want that animal dead in its tracks and I could care less if the front shoulders are fed to the dog. I want that buck dead in it's tracks. If I have time to put the bullet in the burr of his ear I will do that. I am not going to let a huge buck pass because the angle isn't perfect. That is why I use a hunting bullet designed for doing what needs to be done.

I hunt many , many days for maybe one shot per season. I need that one shot to anchor that buck. You can't COUNT on a SMK to do that every time.

Deer are not hard to kill. If all I was doing was hunting to eat deer I could just use SMK and shoot them in the head or the neck. I would take that shot when it was safe to do do I,E Not a bunch of wind, not running, straight away or straight at me. If you are going to place your shots and are a cool character and don't need to try and shoot every deer you see, then a SMK would work just fine.

They were not designed to go through two shoulders and although they may do it there are better bullets for the job. Why on earth would you not use them?Jeff
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

For hunting, but for hunting what?

On thin-skinned game, like deer, bullet placement is key.

Come to think of it, on thick-skinned game bullet placement is also key.

Wait, I think I'm on to something here....
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

I remember a certain cow that met her demise by way of a 175 SMK fired from my AR10 with a MV of 2625. Right at 400 yds. away. I hit her in the left shoulder in line with the leg. She dropped and that was the end of it. The left shoulder was bloodshot and the jacket of the bullet was found on the inside of the skin of the offside shoulder. I've also killed them with lung shots too, but not with the same authority as a shoulder shot.

I have to agree with people who say that other bullets MAY function better. The fact of the matter remains, I have killed plenty of shit with them and they do in fact work. They may not be the "best" (whatever that means) bullet for the intended job, however I have a tough time listening to people rant on and on about how they don't work at all (never bothered to see for themselves) when I have eaten a BUNCH of deer and elk who were ignorant to the aforementioned argument against SMK's and got plenty dead because of it.

Maybe I'm running a lucky streak, but I can tell you with a surety, they work very well.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

I have personally harvested both elk and deer with Sierra Matchkings.....the elk was taken at 650 yards and he moved exactly 3 yards from where he was originally hit. The deer did somersaults but was dead instantly. They've worked for me.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ha, nice Chad! Montana summed it up well. Sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. My results have been the same. Just shoot a berger if you want a match bullet that will work well on game.</div></div>

Yea, I know...use a premium hunting bullet and they ALWAYS work; no exception. It doesn't even matter where you hit them.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Hm... this gets me thinking... the arrow comment in particular. I didnt use MK's because I was afraid of the expansion problems everyone talks about... but just as you say.. if an arrow does it why cant a 2600fps bullet?

I'm gonna switch to MK's. Although my 100yd groups with the 165 gamekings were still under .5" with my GAP
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

The arrow comparason is not a good one, unless you figure out how to put 1 1/2 inch fins (razors) on your MK. No one I know of hunts anything bigger than rabbits with field points.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Grumulkin</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ha, nice Chad! Montana summed it up well. Sometimes they work, sometimes they dont. My results have been the same. Just shoot a berger if you want a match bullet that will work well on game.</div></div>

Yea, I know...use a premium hunting bullet and they ALWAYS work; no exception. It doesn't even matter where you hit them. </div></div>

Always has some big connotations. It will however ALWAYS matter where you hit them; regardless.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Whitetail deer is the biggest animal I hunt. Seen many hit the ground hard after impact from a SMK. You hit them in the heart, lungs, or spine, they will die, every single time.

Are SMKs going to be as consistent in terms or expansion, penetration, etc. as some super premium hunting bullet, of course not. But they will do the job every single time if you put the bullet in the right place.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

As I said... if you are a cool character and are willing to be SURE that you put he bullet in the right place they will work just fine. sadly, I have seen the results of people who were calm under pressure. I am sure there are far more out there who think they are ( calm under pressure) then really. Guys there was a time when a whole lot of deer got killed with a .22 long rifle with one shot right in the burr of the ear.

Just because it works doesn't mean it is a good idea. hell, last time I checked 100,000 deer were killed by cars in wisconsin each year. I would not recommend that either. I killed two elk with a .55 caliberBlack powder gun that shot 6 inch groups at 100 yards. I shot them under 100 yards through the lungs and both of them ran off and died within 200 yards. I knew how far I had accuracy to do the job and stayed within it. Would I have rather had a gun that shot 1 1/2 inch group at 100 yards? Yes! but I worked within the limits I had which was no big deal since I killed them with a bow a lot closer then 100 yards.

Within limits they will work just fine. A bullet that does not go clear through both shoulders and exit is not one I am going to use in uncertain conditions on an Elk. Elk on public ground in Oregon need to die in their tracks. If they run over the hill or escape to private ground and someone else will kill them and attach a tag which always leads to an uncomfortable situation.

Sorry guys but a whitetail isn't an Elk or a bear and if you think it's ok in all situations then you just haven't been in enough situations. Kill 30 elk an be in on the killing of another 150 and then come and talk about match bullets and shot placement. In the real world the Joe Averge is shooting quickly at a moving animals at an less then perfect angle. Sometimes in low light at uncertain range.

That is reality folks! Could some of you in relaxed field conditions where bringing home the bacon doesn't really count use match bullets? I suspect on deer they may work jut great, I don't think recommending them for all shooters is a very wise choice. Using them on Elk at all under all conditions isn't a very good choice either.

Chase a wounded bull for 8 hours and then come and tell me about your match bullets. I have chased plenty of them shot by people with hunting bullets and it's no fun. The average guy will not wait for perfect conditions and that is why I feel it's not wise to tell others to use them. Jfef
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The arrow comparason is not a good one, unless you figure out how to put 1 1/2 inch fins (razors) on your MK. No one I know of hunts anything bigger than rabbits with field points.</div></div>

Are you saying that a field point through the heart or lungs won't kill a deer? If that's what you think, you're wrong. Granted, broadheads cause more rapid bleeding and will kill faster.

I think there is also a misunderstanding of what Sierra MK bullets will do (which is how this discussion started) vs what an accepted "hunting bullet" will do as far as penetration. You will likely get better penetration with a MK. Typically, after hitting, a MK will fragment into at least a couple of pieces and might tumble; the fragmenting and tumbling just adds to the damage they do.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

This could go on and on with the debat. I do know that Berger's match hunting VLD's have a thinner jacket, so says their technicians than the target VLD's, which helps with expansion. I believe it's preference. But you must consider your situations that you are hunting as well as your limitations.

Everyone has their own experiences and preference's. You could take the debat further in bullets intended for hunting...accubond or partition, gameking or prohunter, spire pont or SST. As well a heavier bullet with better BC and bucks the wind or a lighter bullet with more velocity.

The cool thing is the thread and everyone sharing their experiences and opinions.

Sidebar the deadlies and most lethal kill of mine was antelope arrowed entering the lungs and exited dead center of the heart...about 5 steps of "what was that" and then boom the drunk fall over dead! It was seriously cool.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Hi everyone

I realise this is a topic that's been done to death. But I would feel guilty if I did not relay recent experience while hunting springbuck in South Africa with 142 MatchKings in a 6.5/284.

My observations a few weeks back, over the course of shooting more than 10 springbuck with this combination, leads me to believe that the expansion of this particular MK bullet is critically dependant on where you hit the animal. Hit any major bone area (shoulder/front leg, head, spine, back) and the bullet has massive and deadly expansion. If you however, hit the springbuck just behind the shoulder on the ribs (through the main lung section but missing major bones) the bullet pencilled through 5 times out of 5 shots - in all 5 cases the animals ran for at least half a mile before we could get a second shot it,and one animal almost got away. Note that I have very succesfully pulled of this very same shot placement on springbuck with Nosler Accubonds in the same caliber just a week prior to this, and the animals pulled up dead within 20 yards every time.

Please, I'm not making generalisations about Matchkings - I happen to know a very experienced hunter who swears by the 168g MK in a 7mm caliber for hunting. I am merely relaying my experiences with the 142MK in a 6.5/284.

Cheers
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

I have shot 6 elk with 175 smks and they all dropped in their tracks. All were from 260-503 yards away.I personally would not hesitate to use them.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Hi Jimmy

Yes, your experience is not uncommon. It would appear that many of the SMK's in the 300 and 284 calibers do really well as hunting rounds. But to the same token, I had someone PM me last night to relay their similar problems to mine using 190SMK's from a 300RUM

In a seperate discussion today with someone who succesfully hunts with the 142 SMK's in the 6.5mm from a 260Rem, we came to the conclusion that muzzle velocity must play a role. He personally shoots the 142SMK's at 2700 fps and has none of the problem I had, shooting the 142SMK's at 3000fps from a 6.5x284.

Again this has reinforced my conclusion that SMK's for hunting work most of the time in most caliber/bullet weight/shot placement combinations, but fails spectacularly in some combinations. I guess the lesson to be had is to test the SMK's on your specific rifle in hunting situations very carefully before you just default to them as your hunting bullet of choice.

I guess a final learning for me is that one should be careful of making broad generalisations in either promoting or dismissing SMK's as hunting bullets.

Cheers
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Sierra does not reccomend thier SMK for hunting. I guess the over penetration is why. I always wondered why they warn against't hunting with the SMK's.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

I have been using 120 mk in my 6.5x57 swede for many years and have never had a deer not go down, recovered slugs have all shown good expansion and are usually lying under the skin on the off shoulder just my 2 cents worth but they work great for me
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

It's just like real estate........... Location,Location,Location.
 
Re: Sierra matchkings for hunting?

Nosler Accubonds!!! I have found them even more accurate than SMKs, and are just as consistent when you measure/weigh them out.
Are you really shooting so many deer/elk you cant afford an extra few cents per bullet for more consistent performance?
There is no comparison between SMKs and a bonded bullet like accubonds or scirocco.
For every guy that has an SMK bang flop an elk or whitetail there is another that has had them blow up or zip right through. It isn't about what is possible, or even likely.
It is about making educated, disciplined, professional choices to maximize the capability of our weapons on target. That's what this site is about. What I see in the local woods clearly demonstrate success is possible with a less than optimal approach, that isn't the debate.
Spend an extra 20 cents and use the right tool for the job to someday save potential hours tracking game or a needlessly lost animal. Either way, I'm confident your choice will eventually be self-critiqueing.
 
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