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Sig 716 DMR Accuracy Issues

S

SPRword

Private
Minuteman
Sep 24, 2022
41
8
Minnesota
Howdy Gents. I’m having some issues with my Gen 1 SIG 716 DMR. Basically, I cannot get consistent 5 round groups under 1.25 MOA. To my mind, a rifle like this should be able to shoot at or under 1 MOA fairly consistently. Barrel is the factory 1:10 twist 18” SIG barrel. I am currently using a Silencerco Omega mounted on an ASR Flash hider. I’m firing off of bipods with a rear bag at 100 yards and I’m using a 5-25 FFP Vudu in an ADM mount. Optic is torqued to spec, flash hider is on to spec, the whole nine yards. I’ve had similar results without the can and with my AAC 762-SD.

I can achieve 1.5-2.0 MOA groups with factory M118lr. Best I can achieve is 1.25 MOA with LC LR brass, CCI 7.62 NATO primers, and 42.2gr’s of 4064 at 2.79” COAL. With my M118LR clone loads, same recipe as above but with 41.7gr’s 4064 loaded to 2.81 COAL I can achieve 1.5-1.6 MOA pretty consistently. Am I being unrealistic with my MOA or sub-MOA expectations? My factory test target shows a .8 MOA group so I don’t think my expectations are crazy. I’ve had this rifle since it was new and really only started shooting it recently since getting into reloading.

Should I be looking at 168gr loads? I like the idea of using M118LR as I have a lot of it and the components to make more, as that is what most of my other .308’s like. I assumed with a 1:10 twist these heavier loads would be best. Anyone have a pet load for theirs that they like, or a good factory ammo option? All advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
It sounds like you have a decent amount of experience shooting large frame ARs and are familiar with the additional amount of fundamental skills needed to shoot one well.

What bullet/ammo was used on the factory test target?
 
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diggler1833 said:
It sounds like you have a decent amount of experience shooting large frame ARs and are familiar with the additional amount of fundamental skills needed to shoot one well.

What bullet/ammo was used on the factory test target?
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, I can’t recall. I don’t have the factory case with me which has the target in it.

I called SIG today and the guy I spoke to said he didn’t know what they used and that they don’t have records that far back. He recommended that I buy their match ammo and try that. Of course that doesn’t help me much when the goal is, for me at least, to be able to buy and stash or load/clone and stash one of the common factory offerings. Anyone tried the 168 FGMM through this? I’ll see if I can find the Hornady stuff and give that a try as well.
 
First off, an actual 5 round average of multiple groups, that is 1.25 MOA, is really quite good from a stock large frame AR. I would not complain about this at all.

Have you thought about trying some lighter bullets, and better brass? A good choice is a 155 gr class bullet. Your 1/10 twist will be fine. All of my 308 AR's have shot well with Sierra 155's. 4064 powder would work fine with these too.

I think with a little different load development you will get there. I also think you should relax your expectations a little bit.
 
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tekmann2377 said:
First off, an actual 5 round average of multiple groups, that is 1.25 MOA, is really quite good from a stock large frame AR. I would not complain about this at all.

Have you thought about trying some lighter bullets, and better brass? A good choice is a 155 gr class bullet. Your 1/10 twist will be fine. All of my 308 AR's have shot well with Sierra 155's. 4064 powder would work fine with these too.

I think with a little different load development you will get there. I also think you should relax your expectations a little bit.
Click to expand...
Good idea, I’ll take a look at some lighter options. I was really hoping to make this an effective 800 meter gun, but that may not be an option.

Perhaps my expectations are the issue, but if so then I fell a bit disappointed in the rifle. For the $2k+ that this rifle cost 7 years ago and the accuracy claims made when it was released I expected it to keep up with the big boys.
 
I think the rifle will shoot to its potential with some match grade ammo. I'd try Berger, Federal, Hornady, Norma, Sig.
 
I have the G2 in 6.5 and it's lights out, sub moa. I'd recommend 168s or 175s. Also, what optics are you using? Trying to shoot small groups with lower power can be a challenge.
 
are we talking about a 716i tread rifle? if so i had one with a 16” barrel and it was less than stellar for accuracy with GGG 168gr and 155gr hpbt ammo and hornady 155gr amax. the GGG shoots under 1moa in my ruger american too.

lots of recoil with it too. ended up with an AGB and muzzle brake that helped but i still couldnt get it under 1.5moa on paper at 100yards. some barrels just dont shoot. i just move on from them.

i assume you are using a good trigger too right?
 
tucaz said:
are we talking about a 716i tread rifle? if so i had one with a 16” barrel and it was less than stellar for accuracy with GGG 168gr and 155gr hpbt ammo and hornady 155gr amax. the GGG shoots under 1moa in my ruger american too.

lots of recoil with it too. ended up with an AGB and muzzle brake that helped but i still couldnt get it under 1.5moa on paper at 100yards. some barrels just dont shoot. i just move on from them.

i assume you are using a good trigger too right?
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No sir, this is the earlier 716 piston rifle, specifically the generation 1 DMR variant. Barrel is the 18” DMR barrel. Trigger is the factory 2 stage, which is very nice. I’d say similar in quality to a G2S.
 
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I called Sig this past Friday to see about a barrel for my Sig 716 patrol($700ish for those wondering. Would need to send it in). Older, piston driven with the quad rail. Asked about accuracy and what it should be. Was told 1.5 to 2 MOA with M118LR. So to the tune of $60 a box I bought a few to see what it's doing. I haven't bothered with it in a few years, but recall struggling with getting it to do MOA.

I personally would expect the DMR version to be at least MOA.
 
Thought I’d update everyone on this. I’ve been loading and shooting for this rifle basically all week. Today when I went out, I spent the time to make sure that everything was perfect so I could really get an idea of how this thing shoots. I setup in the prone on our KD range at the 100 yard line. I tried 168gr FGMM, some M118LR that I have, and some MK316 clone loads I’ve worked up. I made the focus of this trip my fundamentals. Good breathing, good posture and shooting position, good trigger control, the works. I was able to tighten things up pretty considerably. While most of my factory ammo was in the 1.2-1.9 MOA range (with the 168’s performing the worst,) with my hand loads I was able to pull off .7-.9 MOA groups with a cool barrel. Overall I’m much more pleased with this. I expect that with some more time I could improve this a bit more.

I think a lot of the issues that I was having were related to how I was driving the rifle. I shoot a LOT AR, but I’d been spending much more time with my bolt guns lately. I think that what I was seeing was really an issue with my fundamentals. My AI AE lets me get away with things that this thing doesn’t. It goes to show, if you don’t practice, that skill can fade pretty quick, especially with a semi-auto.
 
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Though I've never shot a large frame AR, my understanding is they're more sensitive to poor technique and fundamentals, or "follow through", if any of that terminology makes sense. Perhaps a large frame AR expert will correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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BCP said:
You put a satern barrel on a piston sig 308?
Click to expand...
That is what I am wondering? The piston Sig 716's are not normal. They are two aminals put together and nobody makes a replacement. To get a new barrel, you send it to Sig. Or you do what other have done and order what is needed and have a gunsmith cobble it for you.

Taken from Sig Talk.
The receiver threads for the barrel nut are armalite pattern, 1 7/16" - 18 TPI. The bolt and barrel extension however are DPMS pattern.
 
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