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Training Courses Sig Sauer - Scoped Rifle Skill Builder

pmclaine

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
  • Nov 6, 2011
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    MA
    Taking the Skill Builder class at Sig on Monday. I've enjoyed most of their scoped rifle offerings. Guessing this one will be good and it seems like its geared toward drills that should be entertaining.

    Ill try to post up some info here to inform anyone considering Sig for training.

    In prep for Monday I took Billy Beroo, my old reliable, to the 100 yard range to foul a clean bore and check zero with 20 rounds of 175 FGMM......

    101901.jpg


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    Ill have to watch that .1mil high. Things usually get better with this rifle when Im on a mat married to the earth.

    Tommorow Ill shoot something fun before I have to "go to work" in class on Monday.
     
    I’d be super interested in hearing how it was. I’ve been eyeing their classes for a while
     
    I’d be super interested in hearing how it was. I’ve been eyeing their classes for a while


    Ill update with some photos and info.

    Ive enjoyed a few classes there.
     
    Every range trip has a purpose.

    My purpose in tomorrow’s class is to have a watchful eye critique my fundamentals and perhaps remind me of something I have become sloppy on. Also I want challenges I don’t generally take on when I sit at a bench before my ride home from work. As this is a skill builder maybe there will be some barricade or positional shooting.
    My goals include….
    • Performance that I could consider puts me in the top half of the class

    And my desire

    • The instructor takes an interest in my rifle. Im pretty proud of that beast and when an instructor that sees rifles all day everyday takes the time to inquire about specific specs that tells me he is impressed with performance and Im having a good day.
    • Some new shooter will ask for advice, while putting himself down for not having the high end gear. Love telling those guys they don’t need it and the fact he is in class is the best investment.
    • Entertainment – The ritual at Sig is for everyone to introduce themselves, explain what they want out of the class and describe their gear. Most people are pretty superficial but there is always that guy – he is my entertainment and I would be disappointed slightly if he is absent tomorrow.
    Tomorrow will be work. Ill be exhausted at the end of the day. Ill have to concentrate to meet my goals and desires. There will be the stress of maintaining awareness lest some stranger do something unsafe.


    But today. Today my range goal is fun and I broke out my oldest friend, my pot bellied pig Garand.

    My first gun bought in some twenty or more years, purchased 2009. The start of all this shit...

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    Its probably the end of my 300 yard shooting for the year. The range faces west. The camera couldnt handle the "overexposure" nor could my eyes.....

    garand.jpg


    More of a shotgun pattern but the Garand will do its job for what it was designed to do.

    garand5.jpg
     
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    Morning fog burned off with the sun. My rifle at the 100 yard line.

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    Check zero, first 5 rounds.

    SIG.jpg


    Some rifles on the line. My shooting partner was using the AR in .224V. There were 3 privately owned SSG3000, I call them kiss asses. Another shooter was using a Sig supplied loaner SSG3000. You can show up at Sig absolutely naked and they will provide everything to participate in class - no charge for loaner gear, you pay for expendables.

    SIG2.jpg


    Zero after 15 rounds. I made a .1D/.1R adjustment.

    SIG3.jpg


    Some other groups while other shooters sought zero...

    SIG5.jpg


    A neat wind excercise, 5 rounds fired on a price tag. I went 2/5 and 3/5. Should have done better. Video of my 2 hit tag in motion.



    My three hit tag. Four hits were recorded by 4 shooters.

    SIG6.jpg


    The next picture was a pretty good exercise. You and your partner must use 5 shots to get a poker hand. First shooter gets in position on an empty gun. At go shooter gets up runs twenty yards, gets one bullet, runs back to gun, loads, than finds and fires at his chosen target card. After first shooter fires second shooter runs off gets a bullet and fires one round. Repeat until team has fired five rounds total.

    We kind of cheated. The instructor said we would need to communicate to locate our target card. The cards at 100 yards are small, most of the reticle covers your card or if you zoom out you cant see the cards.

    He didnt say we couldnt write on the paper so by writing x,y grids we could call out cards to each other and use the numbers as reference to place a hold.

    Our intent was to get a hand of 4 Aces, K high.

    I shot 1,1,

    Partner went for 2,3 and neither of us was certain his round wasnt in the spade not seeing the hole at 1,4,

    I took 4,3,

    Partner had 7,3 but called it a miss so I went 7,3.

    Wind was messing with his leetle bullets. Im not sure if the American Eagle variety ammo was best for his rifle. I guess there is limited choice in the .224V offerings.

    SIG7.jpg


    We also did a few spotter/shooter comms excercises.

    Spotter would designate a point of aim for the shooter than he would provide scope adjustments the shooter had to input to "drive" through a spotter chosen route across the grid paper.

    We did well. It was tough with the single turn Premier, the "clicks" are so tight and the MTC caused a jump usually.

    I had an "Ah, ha!" moment after the class and realized I made things too complicated and really could have made a mess out of this drill.

    When spotter would give me "Dial, 2.6 mils, up", I was thinking "Okay, move up 26 clicks".

    I should have just looked at what was on the scope say 1.2 mils for instance.....added 2.6 to 1.2 and ended up at 3.8. Doing what I was doing is a mess. Always shooting from a bench or at some KD target DOPE changes are not routine for me. I either read them from my data book or its just tweaking for conditions.

    That little discovery was worth the cost of the class.

    Goals

    I feel confident of ten students I was in top 5. The two women attending shot within top 5 also. One was using a borrowed .308 SSG. The other a sub caliber (any bullet smaller than 7.62) and she was very realistic in her self assessment - good shooter.

    Desires

    1. Instructor inquired about my rifle after first sight in group commenting he shot similar in USMC.

    2. My partner is new to "mid range" shooting and his rifle is relatively new to him. We talked about some stuff he saw me doing and inquired about. The class didnt give him enough of the beyond 100 yards experience he hoped for. 750 yards was tough for his rifle. His scope topped out and I dont think the ammo was matching his rifle. His spread around the steel was inconsistent. Sub calibers become tough to shoot. Ive seen other students with .22 bullets moving from 300 to 750 at Sig struggle. That was the jump that the excellent woman shooter became critical of herself. Im thinking accept recoil and enjoy more hits.

    3. Entertainment - Not as much as I hoped for. It was a pretty high end group of shooters - soft wear engineer, lawyer, secret service agent, owner of an adventure/outdoor company, a resident from St Maarten that is taking a job at Sig and will commute from St Maarten. One shooter claimed attending over 300 courses at Sig. The instructor seemed to corroborate the claim and his toys indicated he had the disposable income.

    Conclusion

    Pretty much the final of the 3 instructional scoped rifle classes at Sig focusing on fundamentals. They have other classes on wind calling, unknown distance, scopes - that are more class or observatory rather than "shooting". Id probably benefit but if Im blowing a vac day I want trigger time.

    My round count yesterday was 90 FGMM for a day spanning from 0830 to 1830. Subtract an hour or so of brief in the AM, an hour of lunch and 45 minutes of clean up debrief at the end of the day.

    I think going forward Ill want to repeat the two day PSRII class and take "other rifles" to the "Reach for 1000" class to get dope and experience the challenge of some rifles that are quirky - old school 3x9 Redfield clones, maybe an external adjust Unertl or my USO MST100.

    Ive got 90 days now to get a discount on my next classes. Ill be looking for one in the spring and one in the fall - good times.
     
    Last edited:
    Thanks for taking the time to write this. Sounds like im going to have to go to the academy soon.
     
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    Very informative.

    I assume you go home at the end of the day versus staying up there


    Almost as good as the shooting is the drive up there.

    Its only an hours ride but I leave pretty early to beat the traffic/avoid the conflict with everyone else in the house preparing for their day.

    I ride with a full thermos mug of good coffee and just enjoy some music and the light traffic.

    There is a section of Rt 95 driving through Newburyport that I look at and see a rifle range waiting to happen. Its a big expanse of Texas plain transported to Massachusetts. There are even black angus cattle out there.

    Love that short section of highway.

    I refuel in the AM before going to Sig. Im usually in the Pro Shop parking lot 45 minutes before they open to permit registration. I spend the time reading the news or in the case of the other morning I bought 1000 .308/175 SMK projectiles from @VSP968.

    Early bird gets the worm in the Hide PX.

    I do drive home at night.

    I refill the thermos with coffee either from my own supply or Sigs pro shop Keurig machine.

    With the traffic and the days fatigue the ride home is not near as nice as the morning ride.

    Even if its a multi day class I take the ride home. Gives me consecutive opportunities to enjoy the ride up there.
     
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    If anyone is considering going up there......

    Sig issues a Data Book in their PSR I and PSR II classes.

    This just came up in discussion between me and another member here....


    You can see pictures of the Sig book I use.

    I reacquainted myself with the company that makes the Sig book and I see they have started producing a book for commercial sale. This is new they didnt have them 4-5 years ago when I was asking them to make one.

    The company site is here.....


    This book.....


    and especially this target page.....


    Would come in handy at the Sig classes.

    The target page is new. Sig has similar in their books but that tri fold page is a representation of the target Sig uses for site in and drills at the 100 yard line.
     
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    Reactions: Ds91 and USMC22
    Almost as good as the shooting is the drive up there.

    Its only an hours ride but I leave pretty early to beat the traffic/avoid the conflict with everyone else in the house preparing for their day.

    I ride with a full thermos mug of good coffee and just enjoy some music and the light traffic.

    There is a section of Rt 95 driving through Newburyport that I look at and see a rifle range waiting to happen. Its a big expanse of Texas plain transported to Massachusetts. There are even black angus cattle out there.

    Love that short section of highway.

    I refuel in the AM before going to Sig. Im usually in the Pro Shop parking lot 45 minutes before they open to permit registration. I spend the time reading the news or in the case of the other morning I bought 1000 .308/175 SMK projectiles from @VSP968.

    Early bird gets the worm in the Hide PX.

    I do drive home at night.

    I refill the thermos with coffee either from my own supply or Sigs pro shop Keurig machine.

    With the traffic and the days fatigue the ride home is not near as nice as the morning ride.

    Even if its a multi day class I take the ride home. Gives me consecutive opportunities to enjoy the ride up there.

    Got it....my ride is 90 minutes longer so I would stay. More so, I am not big on driving....kinda hate driving.

    Wanted to try a class to see what it is like
     
    Got it....my ride is 90 minutes longer so I would stay. More so, I am not big on driving....kinda hate driving.

    Wanted to try a class to see what it is like


    Ive seen you shoot.

    I think you would get some value out of any of their "fundamentals" classes but Im sure you could jump right into "Reach for 1000" with no issues.

    "Reach for 1000" doesnt provide much for "educating" a shooter. Its expected that the shooter has fundamentals, can operate their equipment safely, and wont require much baby sitting.

    Its kind of structured to people that can shoot looking to get data for their rifles. How fast they move the line back to 1000 though is kind of dictated by the shooter that needs more time. They wont let a struggling shooter ruin the day but they do really try to make sure every shooter succeeds for the day.

    Ive taken two or three "Reach for 1000" classes. All made it out to 1000 but none were the same. The instructors usually throw some fun exercise in such as attaching balloons to target frames at 1000 yards, perhaps an empty paint can at 750, having the line volley fire in sequence on a hostage taker swinger or dueling tree.

    My 90 round expenditure may seem miserly to some shooters but just to let you know I could have shot a lot more. The Sig "estimates" of round count are "conservative" in the sense they are high. Ive never shot the rounds they estimate at any class I have taken there. I could have if I wanted to though.

    There are periods when the instructor is working with another shooter or they allow the line to "fire at will" that you can just blast away.

    Ill take my shots but once I get my fill I dont just use my ammo to boost my brass collection.

    Besides after the full day fatigue sets in and the quality of the work from me starts to suffer. Ive got a pretty sore collar bone with some hematoma today.
     
    Reading my post from last night it almost seems I insulted @Nik H shooting ability.

    By stating he would get some value out of the fundamentals I only meant we all get value out of hearing someone restate fundamentals.

    Ive seen him shoot and he doesnt lack at all in fundamentals or ability.

    No insult was meant.
     
    Just signed up for next years classes.

    June, 11-12, 2020 Precision Scoped Rifle 102 - Took it before. Two day class they get more into ballistics and using a Kestrel. Im guessing now they use Sig products for the electronics.

    October, 16-17, 2020 Advanced Defensive Rifle - AR/Pistol class. Took the Basic Defensive rifle this spring and had a good time.

    If you sign up for two classes at a time you get 10% off your order. Because I just completed a class and have a certificate coupon I got an additional 10% off.

    Still kind of expensive but will be a good time.

    Kind of sucks they price the "Reach for 1000" classes at $350 when almost all other day classes/multi day classes are priced at approx $250/day.

    Guess they are making the extra money on the demand.

    I was going to do a "Reach for 1000" but decided on PSR 102 to get a second day of shooting at $150.
     
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    Changed my mind on classes.

    Cancelled repeating the PSR102 class and Im going to take "Reach for 1000" on saturday May 16, 2020.

    Interested in either shooting my M40A1 or a capped turret old school M40, a Win Model 70 with external adjust Unertl or maybe my LMT .308.

    Figure the equipment itself will be half the challenge and I can fill some extended range data in my books.

    Should be 6-7 spots left if anyone wants to join in.
     
    Changed my mind on classes.

    Cancelled repeating the PSR102 class and Im going to take "Reach for 1000" on saturday May 16, 2020.

    Interested in either shooting my M40A1 or a capped turret old school M40, a Win Model 70 with external adjust Unertl or maybe my LMT .308.

    Figure the equipment itself will be half the challenge and I can fill some extended range data in my books.

    Should be 6-7 spots left if anyone wants to join in.

    I just booked the same Reach for 1000 class in addition to pretty much every other PR course they are offering next year. I could use a refresher and don't get much of a chance to send rounds long distances being from NJ. I'll be shooting my AI to get dope for a few of the local comps. See you there!
     
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    Been thinking about the classes some and Im coming to the conclusion Ill be shooting more of the PSR3 - Skill Builder classes.

    They spend a lot of time at 100 working on fundamentals or skill drills. I think they spend more time there than a lot of participants desire.

    For this class we were at 100 from about 0930 - 1500 with the ride out at about 1800.

    750 was the longest distance shot at - 100, 300 and 750.

    This might be perfect for me going forward because I want to bring some of my "B" series rifles to the range. Guns with capped turrets or wonky features like BDC adjustments, maybe an external adjust Unertl.

    Everyone gets jacked to say they have shot stuff at 1000 but facts are at that distance lack of skills and either inadequate or poor equipment choices start to show - this is where people are either humbled or disappointed.

    I have one gun (the one I shot this class with) that Im confident with at 1000. My others will certainly "scare" the steel but wont be hitting near as much.

    Id rather have more quality instruction at 100 manipulating turrets, performing skill drills and just being pushed to do shit I dont usually do than to go to 1000 where the instructor time is devoted more to the weaker shooters so he can get them on steel just so they can say they hit steel.

    Note also the PSR3 course is a bit less expensive than the Reach for 1000. That and the fact I fired 90 rounds (just under a half case of FGMM at $190 shipped) which I think was not to few, just right for quality work, the ammo expense wasnt bad.

    @Blackjack988

    Did you sign up for a PSR3 class? I may change my Reach for 1000 to a PSR3 and take the one you are in if you did. Ill see what the Sig Schedule and my work schedule look like.
     
    @Blackjack988 Just checked their schedule. Probably not able to take any of the three they list so Ill stay on schedule for the May reach for 100 - see you there.
     
    Did you sign up for a PSR3 class? I may change my Reach for 1000 to a PSR3 and take the one you are in if you did. Ill see what the Sig Schedule and my work schedule look like.
    I basically blew my whole training budget for the year and signed up for PSR101 (Basic), PSR102 (Advanced), PSR103 (Reach for 1K), Spotting/Windcalling, and Unknown Distance. 101/102/103 are all in May during the same week, the other two courses are one after the other in June. See you in May!
     
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    You will have a great time.

    See you at reach for 1000.
     
    Almost as good as the shooting is the drive up there.

    Its only an hours ride but I leave pretty early to beat the traffic/avoid the conflict with everyone else in the house preparing for their day.

    I ride with a full thermos mug of good coffee and just enjoy some music and the light traffic.

    There is a section of Rt 95 driving through Newburyport that I look at and see a rifle range waiting to happen. Its a big expanse of Texas plain transported to Massachusetts. There are even black angus cattle out there.

    Love that short section of highway.

    I refuel in the AM before going to Sig. Im usually in the Pro Shop parking lot 45 minutes before they open to permit registration. I spend the time reading the news or in the case of the other morning I bought 1000 .308/175 SMK projectiles from @VSP968.

    Early bird gets the worm in the Hide PX.

    I do drive home at night.

    I refill the thermos with coffee either from my own supply or Sigs pro shop Keurig machine.

    With the traffic and the days fatigue the ride home is not near as nice as the morning ride.

    Even if its a multi day class I take the ride home. Gives me consecutive opportunities to enjoy the ride up there.
    I know where your talking about. North bound 95 right hand side. I live about 45 minutes away myself and always wonder if it’s worth the money.
     
    I know where your talking about. North bound 95 right hand side. I live about 45 minutes away myself and always wonder if it’s worth the money.


    Depends on what your other options are.

    Granby is still trying to get sorted out. I heard rumors things may be nearing resolution.

    I shoot at Devens once in awhile - 600 formal KD range with pulled targets and a 900 meter SAW range with knock down/pop up Ivans.

    Granby is a typical yearly membership, Devens is as cheap as it comes either $5 guest fee or $20/year membership but access is limited to one day a month and what range is scheduled by the range control.

    Sig at averaging $250/day and $100 in ammo isnt cheap.

    For me the value is being "forced" into doing shit I dont usually do and the occasional nugget of instruction.

    Like I said reevaluating how I will make scope adjustments going forward after this class was worth the price. Such a simple common sense thing but all I ever usually do is look in my range book and dial to a known setting. I only figured out I needed to change what I was going through the unfamiliar exercise of having someone call out instructions I had to follow.

    The other benefit to Sig is learning from an array of shooters/skills/equipment that attends with you. I didnt get much personal attention from the instructor but you get the "through osmosis" benefit of listening to what they are telling people to your left and right.

    and yes you have the correct piece of prairie I have in mind.
     
    I appreciate the feedback on sig. I’ve always thought about the class there but never had any input how it was. Granby would be nice if it got up and running again.

    I shoot a lot in southern Vermont. Member at a range there that has steel from 100-500 yards every day. Also I shoot at my family’s farm in Vt where I grew up that has my longest ranges. I’ve seen people travel from southern Connecticut hours away just so they can shoot.
     
    Ive shared costs to buy some steel to use at a friends land in western MA.

    Thing is ranges tend to be limited by animals present or trees.

    The limitations make each first shot on the plate the only important ones and everything else is just repeat, repeat, repeat.

    My goals for that type of "farm" experience are a) draw a good range card milling through my scope b) first round hits on each steel.

    I want to shoot Curry Range at Devens some day - 20 plates out to 1000 yards. A perfect day would be one box of ammo and twenty hits.

    Still what those experiences lack is the pressure of being "tasked". Having someone give you instruction, being expected to execute, than knowing the instructor is going to evaluate you and strangers are going to judge your performance.

    That "pressure" is kind of minimal, more what you put on yourself than anything else, but Im sure you like to "do well" and in the class room you try to do better than your other class mates and do compare your performance to theirs.
     
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