Sizing Die Woes - Chamber Signs or Non-Issue?

[Rathmatik]

Howdy,

I made a thread recently about issues with a Redding Type S die, compared to my Hornady Match Grade die. These were both for 6.5 Creedmoor. The Type S die was leaving horizontal lines throughout the case body and similarly placed spots near the top of the body below the shoulder. I figured this was a problem with the Type S die, since the Hornady MG die did not have the same problem (some would show very slight lines if little lube was used after multiple sizes, but generally very normal looking).

So, I just got a LE Wilson bushing die, and now it's showing the same exact lines and spots as the Redding did. I even polished the inside of the Wilson die with #0000 wool and bore solvent. It at least looks better now, but the Hornady MG die is still noticeably more polished and has that mirror appearance.

Is this an issue with my chamber, and something to be worried about? Is this just an appearance issue and the brass will work the same? I used both Hornady and Starline brass, only once/twice/3 times fired.

I'm using a Bergara B-14 HMR, which shoots very well so far (~300 firings).

Any insight/help would be greatly appreciated!

EDIT: The Redding and Wilson dies definitely felt more rough with sizing than the Hornady. Almost like a slight skip, not nearly as smooth.

 

[supercorndogs]

Steel wool isn't going to do much. Get some 400 or 600 grit and a bore mop. Go to town, you will not change the dimensions of the die.

 

[Rathmatik]

Steel wool isn't going to do much. Get some 400 or 600 grit and a bore mop. Go to town, you will not change the dimensions of the die.

Roger that, I'll give that a try too. So, is this brass still fine to use though? The dimensions are very similar to the sized brass that has no visual lines/spots.

 

[supercorndogs]

Yes the brass is fine.

 

[FCS]

I’d bet that chamber has some waviness that is showing up when die sizes body down.
I don’t think this is a die issue, more a chamber “issue” that die brings light to.
Take a look at chamber to see if there is any readily apparent ridges in chamber.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

What lube are you using?

 

[Rathmatik]

What lube are you using?

Imperial sizing wax and Imperial dry neck lube.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Just don't worry about it. It's coming from the chamber and not the dies. How in the hell is a die going to create horizontal lines when the only movement is vertical.

 

[Rathmatik]

I’d bet that chamber has some waviness that is showing up when die sizes body down.
I don’t think this is a die issue, more a chamber “issue” that die brings light to.
Take a look at chamber to see if there is any readily apparent ridges in chamber.

I'll take a look. Would that be an issue, and what's the solution?

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Leave it alone. It's a non-polished chamber and a non-issue.

 

[FCS]

If causing hard extraction, that’s a problem.
Not causing hard extraction, meh, rock on.
Based off what I’m seeing in pictures, probably a non issue.
Root cause is most likely in chamber and not dies.
What is fired brass diameters where you are seeing marks and what are post sized brass diameters at same points?

 

[supercorndogs]

Interesting, those are exactly like the marks a Forrester die I had made until I polished it, at in the instruction of Forrester.

 

[FCS]

Interesting because those are exactly like the marks a Forrester die I had made until I polished it, at in the instruction of Forrester.

All 3 dies doings essentially exact same thing leads me to chamber issue, not die issue.
Possibly all 3 dies have same issue but I find that to be less likely.
Big picture, pretty much a non issue.

 

[Rathmatik]

Leave it alone. It's a non-polished chamber and a non-issue.

Cool deal, thanks for the feedback!

 

[Rathmatik]

All 3 dies doings essentially exact same thing leads me to chamber issue, not die issue.
Possibly all 3 dies have same issue but I find that to be less likely.
Big picture, pretty much a non issue.

Yeah the second die having the same marks made me realize it must be the chamber. Maybe I just need to clean it better with a bore mop... Glad to know it's a non-issue though, thanks!

 

[Rathmatik]

Interesting, those are exactly like the marks a Forrester die I had made until I polished it, at in the instruction of Forrester.

That is very interesting indeed, well I'll report back if polishing with 400/600 grit makes a difference.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

If you dont have a borescope you could use something like a dental pic or small wire to check the chamber for ridges rings variations or whatever. At least then you'll know its in the chamber.

 

[Rathmatik]

If causing hard extraction, that’s a problem.
Not causing hard extraction, meh, rock on.
Based off what I’m seeing in pictures, probably a non issue.
Root cause is most likely in chamber and not dies.
What is fired brass diameters where you are seeing marks and what are post sized brass diameters at same points?

Nope no extraction problems, and no pressure signs on any of my load development thus far.

I'll do some measurements tomorrow and report back, but the post-sized brass was similar between the cases with marks and the ones without.

 

[supercorndogs]

All 3 dies doings essentially exact same thing leads me to chamber issue, not die issue.
Possibly all 3 dies have same issue but I find that to be less likely.
Big picture, pretty much a non issue.

I was referring to the comment that dies can not make those marks.

 

[FCS]

All 3 dies doings essentially exact same thing leads me to chamber issue, not die issue.
Possibly all 3 dies have same issue but I find that to be less likely.
Big picture, pretty much a non issue.

I was referring to the comment that dies can not make those marks.

I made a statement to effect that die can not make those marks?
I said I find it to be less likely a die issue and more likely a chamber issue based off brass coming out of all three dies having very similar marks.
I agree it is possible for die to create those marks. I also find it to be unlikely that all 3 dies have same issue, creating nearly identical marks on case.

When I’ve needed to polish a die, Norton gray synthetic steel wool has been all that I needed.
YMMV

 

[Graye2]

From my own experience I have seen those lines before as well and it was neither chamber or die concerns. It was too little lubricant or from changing lubricant (imperial die wax to one shot or vice versa). I cleaned all my dies and started mixing my own lanolin mix and have never seen it again.

I say this given your edit ...a slight skip was felt. I would try a few cases with a little more lube or a different lube and see if you still feel that and the lines.

That said I do agree with everyone else not to be concerned with it. When I did see this occur every case ran and shot fine the next reload and disappeared with proper lube on the next sizing.

 

[supercorndogs]

I made a statement to effect that die can not make those marks?
I said I find it to be less likely a die issue and more likely a chamber issue based off brass coming out of all three dies having very similar marks.
I agree it is possible for die to create those marks. I also find it to be unlikely that all 3 dies have same issue, creating nearly identical marks on case.

When I’ve needed to polish a die, Norton gray synthetic steel wool has been all that I needed.
YMMV

No you didn't. Someone else did. I.E. I was not talking to you.

When I needed to polish a die, I called the manufacturer of the die and used what they told me.

 

[Milo 2.5]

If the brass doesn't look like that coming out of the chamber, it is happening during sizing.
I say your chamber is slightly over size diameter wise. I would also bet the Hornady die is bored out a hair larger than the other 2 brands. A caliper will tell you this, just measure some brass coming from each die.
Make sure your brass is clean before sizing, so if dry tumbling, wipe the dust off after, like others have said, consistent lube will help.
IMO, you should be able to feel this when sizing the brass, cannot be smooth.

As for the brass, those lines will tumble out, any method you decide to use, superficial.