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Re: slam firing M1 garand
I don't know how you were shooting but most of the time I hear about a "slam fire" in a Garand it is from a shooter who is firing from the bench or a tight sling prone.
If you do this and pull the Garand trigger like a precision rifle trigger when the rifle recoils and returns foward you touch the trigger again and fire the rifle again. The garand trigger was designed to be pulled like a Glock,pull it and hold it. When shooting bolt guns and a Garand in the same day I do it pretty often myself.
Otherwise I have had no trouble out of any primer I have tried when seated properly.
I don't know how you were shooting but most of the time I hear about a "slam fire" in a Garand it is from a shooter who is firing from the bench or a tight sling prone.
If you do this and pull the Garand trigger like a precision rifle trigger when the rifle recoils and returns foward you touch the trigger again and fire the rifle again. The garand trigger was designed to be pulled like a Glock,pull it and hold it. When shooting bolt guns and a Garand in the same day I do it pretty often myself.
Otherwise I have had no trouble out of any primer I have tried when seated properly.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
If the Winc. primers are the "newer" brass colored ones, (instead of the Nickel plated ones)then, yes they have changed. From what I read, Winc. went to the brass colored cups for increased sensitivity.
Had problems with them immediately.
The primers are seated below the casehead ..right ?
The bolt face is clean?
Is the Garands firing pin just like the M1A in operation?...if so, check the hooked end for excessive wear and replace it.
Read/save these first two articles...while they are written specificly about the M1A, most of the info is true about the Garand...(Sans the powder charge data)
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
If the Winc. primers are the "newer" brass colored ones, (instead of the Nickel plated ones)then, yes they have changed. From what I read, Winc. went to the brass colored cups for increased sensitivity.
The primers are seated below the casehead ..right ?
The bolt face is clean?
Is the Garands firing pin just like the M1A in operation?...if so, check the hooked end for excessive wear and replace it.
Read/save these first two articles...while they are written specificly about the M1A, most of the info is true about the Garand...(Sans the powder charge data)
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html
Re: slam firing M1 garand
I shoot it standing up or kneeling at a 200 yrd gong. Fire the odd tracer for effect. Only recently getting slam fires. I shoot one round, eject the next one (when it doesn't fire of course) and yes there is a little faint firing pin mark on the winchester primer. I guess I'll try CCI LR and see if thew problem goes away. I don't mind when it doubles or triples, if it was predictable, but it happens when I least expect it.
John
I shoot it standing up or kneeling at a 200 yrd gong. Fire the odd tracer for effect. Only recently getting slam fires. I shoot one round, eject the next one (when it doesn't fire of course) and yes there is a little faint firing pin mark on the winchester primer. I guess I'll try CCI LR and see if thew problem goes away. I don't mind when it doubles or triples, if it was predictable, but it happens when I least expect it.
John
Re: slam firing M1 garand
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf ...top of page 8 is what I'm talkin' about on the firing pin.
http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf ...top of page 8 is what I'm talkin' about on the firing pin.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
Get the CCI primer that is made for that purpose. Number 44 I think, but look it up. Made harder to eliminate slam-fires. (If it wasn't a problem...they wouldn't make and market them!) JMHO
Get the CCI primer that is made for that purpose. Number 44 I think, but look it up. Made harder to eliminate slam-fires. (If it wasn't a problem...they wouldn't make and market them!) JMHO
Re: slam firing M1 garand
All my M14s, M1As and M1s will put a very slight indent in the primer when chambering a round. That's the nature of having a floating firing pin. If you remove your bolt and hold the firing pin fully forward, measure how much it sticks out past the bolt face. If it is more than .060", you should replace the firing pin, or at the very least, shorten the tip, being careful to maintain a rounded nose. You don't want any sharp edges piercing primers.
All my M14s, M1As and M1s will put a very slight indent in the primer when chambering a round. That's the nature of having a floating firing pin. If you remove your bolt and hold the firing pin fully forward, measure how much it sticks out past the bolt face. If it is more than .060", you should replace the firing pin, or at the very least, shorten the tip, being careful to maintain a rounded nose. You don't want any sharp edges piercing primers.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
The myth is win primers are the sole cause for slam fires, do not use win primers in ARs, any weapon with a floating firing pin should avoid win primers, I think it's a myth, a weapon with something out of spec like too much firing pin protrusion, worn parts, dirty, are the real reason for the malfunctions, win primers maybe softer than CCI or Federal, but there not so soft that using them is a dangerous situation.
The myth is win primers are the sole cause for slam fires, do not use win primers in ARs, any weapon with a floating firing pin should avoid win primers, I think it's a myth, a weapon with something out of spec like too much firing pin protrusion, worn parts, dirty, are the real reason for the malfunctions, win primers maybe softer than CCI or Federal, but there not so soft that using them is a dangerous situation.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
+1 a lot of guys milk the trigger and get a double or triple by tickling the trigger when the gun bounces back off your shoulder.
<span style="font-weight: bold">You sure you're not getting a hammer follow and not a slam fire with just the firing pin weight alone? This is more likely than slamfires. Not saying your issue isn't a primer issue, I'm just going on the odds.</span>
A weak hammer spring, worn out hammer hooks, or worn out trigger/sear could cause the hammer to follow the bolt.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">If this is the case you might also be getting the hammer down without the round going off. Have you had this where you shot and then had a dead trigger due to the hammer not being cocked?</span> If so then you could have a parts problem.
ETA- the bold and underlining. I saw your second post. It sounds like you have parts issues; worn hammer (hooks), worn trigger/ sear, weak hammer spring, worn trigger and hammer pins, and even worn holes on for the pins on the trigger housing. It sounds like your trigger pack needs a rebuild.
+1 a lot of guys milk the trigger and get a double or triple by tickling the trigger when the gun bounces back off your shoulder.
<span style="font-weight: bold">You sure you're not getting a hammer follow and not a slam fire with just the firing pin weight alone? This is more likely than slamfires. Not saying your issue isn't a primer issue, I'm just going on the odds.</span>
A weak hammer spring, worn out hammer hooks, or worn out trigger/sear could cause the hammer to follow the bolt.
<span style="text-decoration: underline">If this is the case you might also be getting the hammer down without the round going off. Have you had this where you shot and then had a dead trigger due to the hammer not being cocked?</span> If so then you could have a parts problem.
ETA- the bold and underlining. I saw your second post. It sounds like you have parts issues; worn hammer (hooks), worn trigger/ sear, weak hammer spring, worn trigger and hammer pins, and even worn holes on for the pins on the trigger housing. It sounds like your trigger pack needs a rebuild.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
I used to use Federal Bench Rest primers in my M1A (30 years ago no one told me they were "bad") and never had any issues. After that I used standard CCI large rifle primers with no issues.
As stated above, the small mark on the primer from the firing pin is normal in these rifles.
When the trigger is pulled to the rear, hold it to the rear until you exhale, then let it up just to the point where you feel/hear it reset.
As stated above, be sure to check the hammer/trigger for wear issues. You haven't changed stocks have you? I've seen one M1A put into a new stock that had clearance issues (too much) and the hammer hooks would sometimes miss the sear when the hammer was cocked and the hammer would follow the bolt back forward sometimes - it was not going off, it was just following the bolt forward.
Seems one other thing folks recommend is to make sure the channel in the bolt where the firing pin rides is clean/clear of dirt/debris so the firing pin isn't being held foward by crud.
Good luck with it and let us know what you find out so we can learn from it, too.
I used to use Federal Bench Rest primers in my M1A (30 years ago no one told me they were "bad") and never had any issues. After that I used standard CCI large rifle primers with no issues.
As stated above, the small mark on the primer from the firing pin is normal in these rifles.
When the trigger is pulled to the rear, hold it to the rear until you exhale, then let it up just to the point where you feel/hear it reset.
As stated above, be sure to check the hammer/trigger for wear issues. You haven't changed stocks have you? I've seen one M1A put into a new stock that had clearance issues (too much) and the hammer hooks would sometimes miss the sear when the hammer was cocked and the hammer would follow the bolt back forward sometimes - it was not going off, it was just following the bolt forward.
Seems one other thing folks recommend is to make sure the channel in the bolt where the firing pin rides is clean/clear of dirt/debris so the firing pin isn't being held foward by crud.
Good luck with it and let us know what you find out so we can learn from it, too.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
Multiple shots from one trigger pull is wear on the trigger group. If you go to Perry take it to the Navy van and tell them it is doubling.
If it goes off on the first round when you let the bolt go chances are you have a high primer which can be very bad.
When primers are seated you should feel each primer to make sure it is before the surface of the case head.
As indicated if the primer is not "tic" marked, something is wrong on Garand, M14, m1A, AR, 742 Rem etc.
I see lots of commercial 30.06 brass that has shallow primer pockets that need to be cut to uniform depth with Sinclair tool as they want to sit high.
Don't remember seeing this on LC cases though.
Also if you don't clean the crud out of primer pockets it will cause them to seat high as well. This is why the stainless steel media is so popular, it cleans all the crud out of the primer pockets.
First thing is get a M1 mechanic to look at rifle. Also get Sinclair primer pocket unifomer tool.
Then mentally tell yourself to pull the trigger till it bottoms out after firing. Bolt gun shooters have trouble with gas guns as they subconsciously stop pulling as the sear releases and they hold the trigger right there like it was a bolt gun. I had this trouble till I taught myself to pull it till it stops.
Problem went away.
Multiple shots from one trigger pull is wear on the trigger group. If you go to Perry take it to the Navy van and tell them it is doubling.
If it goes off on the first round when you let the bolt go chances are you have a high primer which can be very bad.
When primers are seated you should feel each primer to make sure it is before the surface of the case head.
As indicated if the primer is not "tic" marked, something is wrong on Garand, M14, m1A, AR, 742 Rem etc.
I see lots of commercial 30.06 brass that has shallow primer pockets that need to be cut to uniform depth with Sinclair tool as they want to sit high.
Don't remember seeing this on LC cases though.
Also if you don't clean the crud out of primer pockets it will cause them to seat high as well. This is why the stainless steel media is so popular, it cleans all the crud out of the primer pockets.
First thing is get a M1 mechanic to look at rifle. Also get Sinclair primer pocket unifomer tool.
Then mentally tell yourself to pull the trigger till it bottoms out after firing. Bolt gun shooters have trouble with gas guns as they subconsciously stop pulling as the sear releases and they hold the trigger right there like it was a bolt gun. I had this trouble till I taught myself to pull it till it stops.
Problem went away.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
Thanks boys, I'll get the trigger group checked, clean out the primer pockets, and pull the trigger like a shotgun. Like I said earlier have shot a couple thousands out of it with no problem, so its probably worn part, dirty primer pocket or a combination of both, again thanks guys.
Thanks boys, I'll get the trigger group checked, clean out the primer pockets, and pull the trigger like a shotgun. Like I said earlier have shot a couple thousands out of it with no problem, so its probably worn part, dirty primer pocket or a combination of both, again thanks guys.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
Pull the firing pin out of the bolt and make sure there is no debris in the hole it rides in. Pull the pin then tap the bolt on a workbench - see if any debris falls out.
Winchester primers are more prone to piercing with warm loads than the others and the cup material can blow back into the bolt and cause the firing pin to be sticky. This leads to slam fires.
It is still in question as to whether or not you are getting slam fires, milking the trigger, or have trigger issues.
Pull the firing pin out of the bolt and make sure there is no debris in the hole it rides in. Pull the pin then tap the bolt on a workbench - see if any debris falls out.
Winchester primers are more prone to piercing with warm loads than the others and the cup material can blow back into the bolt and cause the firing pin to be sticky. This leads to slam fires.
It is still in question as to whether or not you are getting slam fires, milking the trigger, or have trigger issues.
Re: slam firing M1 garand
Yeah, sounds more like a "jar-off" of the hammer just as the op rod finishes going forward (AFTER bolt rotation=lockup), or inadvertent "bump fire".
I've had rebound off the shoulder after recoil "pull" the trigger for me a few times.
Never had a jar-off. My trigger groups have all been in spec, no sloppy work on the sear or hammer.
What I call a "true" slam-fire is primer ignition before the bolt is fully rotated locked. Broken firing pins, high primers, can do that.
Worn parts and jar-off are often associated with finding the round chambered and the hammer DOWN--that's hammer follow. However, recoil bump firing can do the same thing--the trigger can be pulled after the bolt clears the hammer but long before the round is chambered. Not enough energy left to fire the round.
Yeah, sounds more like a "jar-off" of the hammer just as the op rod finishes going forward (AFTER bolt rotation=lockup), or inadvertent "bump fire".
I've had rebound off the shoulder after recoil "pull" the trigger for me a few times.
Never had a jar-off. My trigger groups have all been in spec, no sloppy work on the sear or hammer.
What I call a "true" slam-fire is primer ignition before the bolt is fully rotated locked. Broken firing pins, high primers, can do that.
Worn parts and jar-off are often associated with finding the round chambered and the hammer DOWN--that's hammer follow. However, recoil bump firing can do the same thing--the trigger can be pulled after the bolt clears the hammer but long before the round is chambered. Not enough energy left to fire the round.
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