Gunsmithing small CNC machines

[Mr_Brass]

so I am going to be going to school for CNC operation and programing soon (if all the money works out and other things fall out)

I am wanting something small to play with as well make some cash on the side. I don't know hardly anything about this stuff other than mills go vertical and lathes go horizontal (right?)

pretty much I;m wanting something to learn and keep skills sharp while in and just out of school.

I would like the capabilities to do cans, uppers, lowers, and other things for cars and such not really sure of a budget as I'm not really sure what im looking for as far as brands and such go so idk 5 grand?

again I would like something of good quality so i can maybe try and pick some work up on the sides to practice and help pay for the machine.

just as a side note I saw a smithy 1220 ltd $2300 but I'm not sure if they are any good and are actually even CNC machines. (i didn't see a computer hooked up to it soooo?

thanks for any advise.

 

[300sniper]

Re: small CNC machines

tormach is about as small as i'd go. they will run on standard g/m codes. they are constantly improving the machine and coming out with new products/tooling for it. you're probably looking closer to $12-$15k for a new one with 4th axis shipped. from my personal experience, tormach has excellent pre and post sale customer service.

the tormach is NOT as fast or rigid as a 30+ hp, 7000 lb+ vmc but they don't advertise it that way either. your cuts will be much lighter with a tormach but i still feel it is a great machine to learn on.

now, you could probably find a used vmc for that price. you need to ask yourself: do you have the room for it? do you have the power to supply it? what happens if/when it breaks? is there any after sale support? if you are comfortable with your answers to those questions, it may be a decent option.

 

[sawman556]

Re: small CNC machines

Is CNC the only way to go? I was looking at a Grizzly gunsmithing lathe and a milling machine. They run around 3k each. I realize CNC is the better way to go but for someone that wants to build a few rifles a year, would this not work?

Not meaning to hijack your thread but I'm interested in this topic as well.

 

[horstie]

Re: small CNC machines

Do a web search for Industrial Hobbies... this guy has some smaller machines..and he uses them to build the CNC upgrades that he sells...

 

[300sniper]

Re: small CNC machines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawman556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is CNC the only way to go? I was looking at a Grizzly gunsmithing lathe and a milling machine. They run around 3k each. I realize CNC is the better way to go but for someone that wants to build a few rifles a year, would this not work?

Not meaning to hijack your thread but I'm interested in this topic as well. </div></div>

there's a few things that cnc mills are handy to have for building rifles. for the most part, they really aren't needed for putting together a precision rifle though. i haven't taken a poll but i'm guessing the far majority of precision rifle builders do all they need to do with a manual mill.

now a cnc lathe on the other hand, i see as being a huge advantage but not a necessity. for a few rifles a year, stick with manual machines unless you have the money to burn and time to invest learning how to use cnc.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: small CNC machines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawman556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is CNC the only way to go? I was looking at a Grizzly gunsmithing lathe and a milling machine. They run around 3k each. I realize CNC is the better way to go but for someone that wants to build a few rifles a year, would this not work?

Not meaning to hijack your thread but I'm interested in this topic as well. </div></div>

there's a few things that cnc mills are handy to have for building rifles. for the most part, they really aren't needed for putting together a precision rifle though. i haven't taken a poll but i'm guessing the far majority of precision rifle builders do all they need to do with a manual mill.

now a cnc lathe on the other hand, i see as being a huge advantage but not a necessity. for a few rifles a year, stick with manual machines unless you have the money to burn and time to invest learning how to use cnc.</div></div>


which i would guess someone thats going to school would be worth getting a CNC since I'll know how to use it and would like to have one to make some side cash as well play with to keep my skills sharp. not trying to be a smart ass just looking for reinforcement my thinking isnt jacked up.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: small CNC machines

300 sniper you mention tormach. I will look into them but let me ask this question.

wiill i see great benefit from both a learning and production ability standpoint to go with a full 4th axis rig? or would a separate mill and lathe be a worth while investment as well. the reason I ask this is because say i don't have 15k to drop at one time could i get a mill at one point and then some time later get the lathe?


i found a company called "micro kinetics" and both their lathes and mills (not the benchtop or desk top models) loook appealing for someone like me. I'm not sure if i would need a full on machine you know?

 

[halon101]

Re: small CNC machines

i would consider getting a manual to start. thats what i have done. i have a manual lathe and mill in my garage. i put a phase converter and a sub panel in there, and i tinker. when i get a little further down the road, and when i have taken a few more cnc programing classes( i started with the manual machining classes) i plan on selling the bridgeport mill for what i payed for it. i have been looking at these http://www.cncmasters.com/index.php?page=cnc-supra-vertical-knee-mill
not too sure if i will be needing/wanting a cnc lathe.

 

[sawman556]

Re: small CNC machines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300sniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sawman556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is CNC the only way to go? I was looking at a Grizzly gunsmithing lathe and a milling machine. They run around 3k each. I realize CNC is the better way to go but for someone that wants to build a few rifles a year, would this not work?

Not meaning to hijack your thread but I'm interested in this topic as well. </div></div>

there's a few things that cnc mills are handy to have for building rifles. for the most part, they really aren't needed for putting together a precision rifle though. i haven't taken a poll but i'm guessing the far majority of precision rifle builders do all they need to do with a manual mill.

now a cnc lathe on the other hand, i see as being a huge advantage but not a necessity. for a few rifles a year, stick with manual machines unless you have the money to burn and time to invest learning how to use cnc. </div></div>

Thank you sir. Those CNC things get pricey!!!

 

[Dracozny]

Re: small CNC machines

you could buy a standard mill and upgrade it to CNC as you can afford to do so. some mills can be changed over easily others not so much. here is an example of the hard way to do it.. http://www.bmumford.com/cncmill/index.html

there are retrofit kits for some Bridgeport models

 

[sandwarrior]

Re: small CNC machines

My take on it is you really don't need CNC unless you plan on producing a bunch of whole rifles, or at least the actions. If you plan on using donor actions, most all of your cuts are going to be relatively light 'truing' type cuts. Each action will have to be set up independently as well. Unlike a production set that would use CNC to shape 'cut to length' billets into the actions you want.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: small CNC machines

The odds of me actually building guns on this is slim I'm more looking at something to keep my skills with code and stuff up. I'm really likeing the micro kenetics machines $10k for a 4th axis mill and 6 more for a lathe what more could one ever want

 

[gregt]

Re: small CNC machines

I've got a Tormach with the 4th axis. It's not a super heavy duty production machine but it's very, very handy and has put out a lot more than its initial cost worth of work since December 2010. I've hardly used my Bridgeport since it arrived.

I couldn't recommend it enough for a first step into CNC. It's a lot more machine than some of the little toy ones around but it'll still fit in your shed and plug into a regular powerpoint. The customer service that comes with it is pretty impressive as well.

Have a look around, there are a few popping up used now.

 

[Mr_Brass]

Re: small CNC machines

Thanks how hard is it for you home machinests to find odd and end work and make some money? I have a friend local and he said he pulled 65k one year doing race parts for engines that's on top of his real job.

 

[300sniper]

Re: small CNC machines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks how hard is it for you home machinests to find odd and end work and make some money? I have a friend local and he said he pulled 65k one year doing race parts for engines that's on top of his real job. </div></div>

it depends on what your friend base is and how well you network.

i don't advertise since i don't normally do work for other people. that said, for example, when a friend that builds hotrods asks me if i could make some hub covers for a car he is building for a customer and lets me know it's a paying job, i won't turn it down. when his customer shows them to his friends, my buddy then calls me back and asks if i'd be interested in making 50 more sets.

 

[300sniper]

Re: small CNC machines

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mr06</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The odds of me actually building guns on this is slim I'm more looking at something to keep my skills with code and stuff up. I'm really likeing the micro kenetics machines $10k for a 4th axis mill and 6 more for a lathe what more could one ever want </div></div>


sign up at cnczone.com and take a look around at the different forums. see what real world feedback you get from micro kinetics, tormach and any other brand you may be considering.

one more thing, if you are going cnc, you are probably going to want to be using heavy flood coolant. if you are considering a converted knee mill, keep your mop and bucket handy.