Smith and corona 1906 question

[ak0prter]

What kinda acuracy can you get out of one of these, with both store bought ammo and hand loads? I got a great offer to get one, but I only really want or need more then 1 .30-06 and I want to make sure I can get some serious range off one if possible.

Thanks for any info, but I also would like to have one for the "historical" value. But again with the having more the one .30-06 for now. I'm on a tight budget so we will see how it goes.

TIA

Sean

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

If you mean a Smith-Corona made 1903a3, then yeah, you can get some decent accuracy out of one, ie, around 1.5MOA but you are still limited to battle sights and not exactly the best ergonomically designed rifle. Then it depends on whether you get a good one or not, whether it has a good bbl, trigger, etc. There were 3 different groove patterns used on the SC 03s, 2, 4 and 6, and all could shoot well if you got a good one. Try the new Hornady "Garand Match" ammo in one and you may be surprised how well they actually shoot with irons. I am partial to the SC 1903a3s and one of the ones I own has one the national springfield match at Perry 4 times, twice by me (including the record score...fired with the old Federal FMJ ammo they issued about 5 yrs ago) and twice by one of our NC Jrs). When I set the record, I had 9Xs out of my 30 shots for record, so 9 of those went into something like 3 inches at 200 yards (10 shots offhand, 10 shots rapid prone and 10 shots slow prone).

So, I guess it all depends on what you want to use it for and the condition it is in. Rack grade SCs probably start at $400 and go up from there. If its sporterized at all, subtract from that number.

John

 

[bohem]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

My dad has a SC 1903 (not the A3) that I've worked some handloads into a 1MOA rifle. When he got it the rifle had already been sporterized and scope mounts soldered onto it. With 178 Amax's and H4350 it will shoot 1.75-2" groups at 200yd and send the 178's at 2850fps without pushing the cases hard at all.

The 30-06 is an exceptionally capable round, many don't give it the credit it deserves. Ammo is plentiful, components are plentiful and the bore life is very good.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

Smith Corona never had a contract for US Rifle Model 1903, only US Rifle Model 1903A3.

The 2 groove barreled 03A3s are sought for their expected better accuracy. M2 Ball ammo will hold you back in any US Rifle 30 cal, bolt or Garand. Substituting the Hornady 3037 projectile in your current M2 ammo, just pull the old projectile and stick this one right back in, will begin to give you an idea what it will do.

It could be a sub-MOA rifle or it could be a 3 MOA rifle. They vary quite a bit.

Before making any mods to the rifle, if you have the idea of maybe shooting a CMP As-Issued match in the future, be sure and read up on the CMP rules before making any mods to the rifle. The rulebook is here:

http://www.odcmp.com/Competitions/Rulebook.pdf

You may also note that any advice from the humble Mr. Mudcat it will serve you well to heed, given that he is the top Vintage Rifle shooter in the country:

http://clubs.odcmp.com/cgi-bin/nationalRanking.cgi?type=GARAND

 

[bohem]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Smith Corona never had a contract for US Rifle Model 1903, only US Rifle Model 1903A3.</div></div>

Did they ever make any A3's without the stamped bottom metal? My Remington made -A3 has stamped bottom metal but his rifle doesn't. It's possible that whoever soldered the bases on there swapped out for different bottom metal, I'm not as familiar with the Springfields as the a lot of the Mausers.

 

[ak0prter]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

I don't plan to compete, I was just going to play with it for a while and possibly think about competeing later. For now it would just be shooting for fun and to see what I can do with it, and mabe to hunt with.

My biggest part about this is I got a great offer to get one and I'm always nwervous about any offer to good to be true. This guy needs cash fast and is selling several guns so I know it's not stolen or anything wrong with it, Henie allso a friend of a friend. Thanks for the help with the different models I'll try and see what I can find out.

 

[samnev]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

I've shoot a number of 03A3's and realistically keeping the stock in original conditition you can probably get 2 MOA with hand loads, perhaps alittle better depending on bore condition. As far as I know all 1903A3's had stamped metal floor plates and barrel bands.

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

Sreid. Find a copy of The Springfield 1903 Rifles, By Lt. Col. William S Brophy,USAR, ret. Very interesting reading.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

Remington had a contract in the 40s to build 1903 pattern rifles with minor modifications to reduce cost and machining time. They also had a contract to build 03A3s. SC never had a contract to build 1903s.

Also keep in mind Remington had replacement parts contracts in addition to rifle contracts. I have a Keystone 03A3 stock (with the K under the bolt handle), yet it has new Remington metal on it. This particular stock never made it into the US Ordnance system, therefore bares no US markings, but was made under contract for the US. When the War ended the US canceled many contracts and the parts made their way to the surplus market.

 

[ak0prter]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

I have not seen the rifle, but the guy will sell it for $350. I don't expect an amazing bolt gun, but for that cal I would like it to be pretty acurate for at least a couple hundred yards. I doubt that it is of any real value or else the guy is not gun smart, I'm just looking for a decent rifle to play with. For sub MOA acuracy I have a rem 700.

I will try to find out all the details on it and post them so everyone will know exactly what it is and hopefully see what it will be capable of.

 

[ak0prter]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

I just talked to the seller and it's a smith corona 1903A3, he game me the serieal number to look up. Says it's a 1941 production model that was carried in Europe, his grandfather owned it and completely refinished it. Now it has a nickel plated bolt, a new hand made stock, and sandblasted and reblued barrel. He said he thinks it has the 4 grove in the barrel.

Anyone have an idea as far as if it's worth having since it's had alot of work? $350 is cheap for a .30-06 that I could beef up if I wanted to, but it's sighted at 300 yards and holds a good group.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

As they saying goes, buy the gun, not the story. That story is total BS BTW.

I was at the local shop, one that the most knowledgeable battle rifle guy west of the Mississippi owns, when a guy walked in with an M1 he said he carried in Korea. He wanted it cleaned and checked out. Said he fought in the Chosin Reservoir campaign with it. Had a Korea Vet hat on with a bunch of flair on it, stickers on his car, etc.

A couple of problems with his story. One, he would have been 14 years old when the battle took place. Two, the rifle was an IHC dated 1955. The battle took place in 1950-51. Three, the rifle had an import stamp of Blue Sky on the side of the barrel.

You got maybe $200 worth of parts there. MAYBE.

 

[John L]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: _9H</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As they saying goes, buy the gun, not the story. That story is total BS BTW.

You got maybe $200 worth of parts there. MAYBE. </div></div>

Agreed. If the original owner did all of that work to it he ruined it. Might make a good shooter though. At $350.00 it would cost way to much to try and bring it back. Smith Corona parts do seem to carry a premium as to cost.

John

 

[mexicanmatch]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

Sounds like he is selling a Bubba made rifle. At the top end $150 is all its worth. imo. MM

 

[DHDeal]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

Walk away. You mentioned being on a budget and not wanting to waste money. Unfortunately, the way you described the condition of that gun, you would be doing just that.

You really need to read up on these rifles to not get stuck. There are many knowledgeable guys out there that can stamp bullshit on a rifle just by looking at a cartouche. Bet there are a few here!

By all means buy one, but you will not get a nice original cheap anymore unless your old aunt gives you one that she did not know was in the closet

!

Bohem,
No 1903a3 had the milled bottom metal. Both Remington and Smith Corona had stamped bowel movements. They were different though. It is a study unto itself the 1903's!

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

Dont walk away from that rifle, RUN Forrest RUN!! That poor rifle has been Bubba-ized and I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole. Save your ducats and get an unmolested one, you will be light years ahead of the game if you do.

There have been a few posted for sale recently that have been under $500 and you can always get your money back out of them later. The SC will command a little premium over the Rem ones. But as far as which parts are better, etc, I have no clue...while I have a bunch of them and "collect" them, I dont know diddly about which parts are correct, etc....and I barely know how to shoot them....which is hard enough without having to remember what bbl is supposed to be on what serial number receiver, etc.

As for bbls, 2, 4 or 6, I havent noticed any trend in accuracy...some are good, some arent. I cant even remember which are the rare ones, so rare some thought they didnt exist until a few of us that just happened to have rifles with them, realized it.

The A3s are easier to shoot due to the rear sight being mounted on the rear of the receiver so you get the ap closer to the eye and its bigger. The 1903 has a tiny butt little peep sight and its WAY up in front of the receiver. You can shoot them well but you gotta really get on it and line things up well. Rapids and offhand with the 03 can be a pain too due to that. But, throw some good ammo into them and you can really be amazed what you can do with one. Put M2 ball or other garbage in there and expect to get garbage out.

But, just be sure you spend your money wisely and get something worth getting. I dont own a bubba'd 03 and wont, regardless of price, condition, etc. Its blasphemy. You might do well to avoid them as well.

John

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

The 1903 site is an unwisely modified variant of the Mauser 98 site. The Germans had their stuff wired tight when they put a triangle up front and mated it with an upside down version of the same shape for the rear notch. We had to make it "better" and use the thin blade on front.

Current CMP rules do not allow thicker front site blades, however back in the day when these were used as match rifles they were fitted with wider blades.

John, I believe you are referencing the star gauged barrels when talking about the ultra-rare ones, yes?

Even with its increased site radius, I prefer the K98 sight over the 03A3 variant.

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

Leo,

I think the star guaged ones only went on the sniper variants, NM stuff, etc, but thats just a guess really on my part, but I do believe that there were not a lot of those. I was refering to the 6 groove ones, I think, which are the ones that are rare. We had a discussion years ago over on the CSP forum about whether they existed at all, a few of us went thru our SC collections and found some, ended that debate real fast.

John

 

[samnev]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

i'm pretty sure that there were no 03A3'S made in 1941. I think production started in late 42 or early 43. I would walk away from this bubba rifle.

 

[ak0prter]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

I'm out, I told the guy this rifle was junk an explained why and he was speachless. I told him if he waged to giv it to me I still prob wouldnt take it. This thing looks nothing like it should, I'll try and post some pics today. I haven't seen the rifle but you can tell by the pics he emailed me this thing is toast.

Thanks for all the help and the lesson on 03A3's not to mention saving my ass from a bubba rifle. But in my defense one I saw this thing I woulda hit the road.

 

[samnev]

Re: Smith and corona 1906 question

sreid87:
Good decision to walk away from this one.