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SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

maccrazy2

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 2, 2009
135
4
47
10 minutes S. W. of denver
I am looking to try a 155 bullet in my .308 sps tactical 18in barrel. I was looking at the BC's of the matchkings and saw the palma bullet was .504 and the regular .417. I looked on sierra's site but could not find what the diffrence was between the two to cause the better BC.
I am looking for a good load to shoot at the raton MN tactical match to help with the wind there.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

The shape of the 2156 (palma) bullet is like a delta wing design of an airplane. The ogive is set back further, streamlining it which helps it cut through the air more efficiently than a traditional bullet like the old style 2155. Try to look at the 2 bullets side by side and you can see the difference.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: damoncali</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why use a 155 grain bullet if wind is an issue?</div></div>

Shorter time of flight. Also, velocity plays a large part in BC.

Here is a side-by-side comparison of the 2155 and 2156(2155 on the left).
100_0339.jpg
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

Thanks alot guys. I saw the lapua also had a high BC but everything else was around the .430 range. I will order some up tomorow and give them a try. I was running some numbers on jbm tonight and they look pretty good. At 900 yards the wind drift is 13.6 inches less then the 168's I am currently shooting.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: damoncali</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why use a 155 grain bullet if wind is an issue? </div></div>

BC and MV are king. Bullet weight means nothing, other than heavier bullets TEND to have higher BC.

For example, if two bullets of different weights had the same BC and MV, their point of impact would be the same.

Thus, if you can get a lighter bullet (more MV) with the same BC, it will be a ballistic advantage. Period.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

I am a noob at this so forgive me for asking this question as I have wondered about this for a while. So I remember from collage physics (so long ago) that inertia which is what the wind would be fighting is a function of mass and speed. So in order for a lighter bullet to have the same inertia i.e. the same ability to fight wind, it will have to go faster. My understanding is that you have to push the 155 grain bullets pretty hot and fast to compete with the heavier bullets and sometimes this causes them to disintegrate (I am talking competition) which would be a bad thing. However, some people shoot the lighter bullets because for them it provides a means to challenge themselves in terms of being able to read the wind. Does this make sense or is this hot air?
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I remember from collage physics (so long ago) that inertia <span style="color: #FF0000">momentum </span>which is what the wind would be fighting is a function of mass and speed <span style="color: #FF0000">p=m*v or e=m*v**2</span>. So in order for a lighter bullet to have the same inertia i.e. the same ability to fight wind, it will have to go faster <span style="color: #FF0000">or have a lower drag coefficient</span>. My understanding is that you have to push the 155 grain bullets pretty hot and fast to compete with the heavier bullets and sometimes this causes them to disintegrate (I am talking competition) which would be a bad thing. However, some people shoot the lighter bullets because for them it provides a means to challenge themselves in terms of being able to read the wind. </div></div>

In essence this comes down to how much energy a bullet carries, and how much of that energy is being disipated into the air as the bullet passes through. You can do the math in momentum terms or in energy terms and get the same answer.

Unless the rifle has an absurdly high twist rate, bullet disintegration rarely happens. Down in the 223 range shooting 35gr-40gr light jacketed varmit bullets at 3500+ fps and a 1:7 twist may see some disintegration.

For example:

Consider:: {punching in some data to JBM)

155 gr bullet {<span style="color: #3366FF">Scenar</span>, FullBore, 2156} MV = 2950 fps, zeroed at 100 yards.

It will take MV= 2800 fps for a 175 SMK in order to have the same windage performance at 1000 yards as the 155 has at 1000 yards (9.4 MoA). And, even here, it will have another 2.6 MoA of drop over the 155.

It will take a MV=2892 fps for a 175 SMK in order to ahve the same drop at 1000 yards as the 155 has at 1000 yards (31.6 MoA). Here, the 175 windage is better by 5.3 MoA.

Can a 308 push a 155 to 2950 fps--quite a few of us do; at least one of us has over 30 reload cycles on a set of cases. A stiff load to be sure, over the top--sort of depends where one draws the line--caution is always warrented.

Can a 308 push a 175 SMK to 2800 fps? I really don't know, but my intuition says difficult at best, close to the edge at least.

Can a 308 push a 175 SMK to 2892 fps? Please warn the rest of the shooting range before attempting this with a 308.

Prior to the advent of the modern 155s, the 175 was king, and still is in many areas. Modern powders (Varget,...) have had some influence on this overall process.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a noob at this so forgive me for asking this question as I have wondered about this for a while. So I remember from collage physics (so long ago) that inertia which is what the wind would be fighting is a function of mass and speed. So in order for a lighter bullet to have the same inertia i.e. the same ability to fight wind, it will have to go faster. My understanding is that you have to push the 155 grain bullets pretty hot and fast to compete with the heavier bullets and sometimes this causes them to disintegrate (I am talking competition) which would be a bad thing. However, some people shoot the lighter bullets because for them it provides a means to challenge themselves in terms of being able to read the wind. Does this make sense or is this hot air? </div></div>

You are thinking in the same terms I used to - until I had my enlightenment a few weeks ago.

In fact, there are ONLY 2 forces on a stabilized projectile:
1. Gravitation
2. Drag

As a projectile encounters wind, it points into the wind like a weathervane, and the drag force vector, rather than pointing straight back at the rifle as it would in a ZERO wind condition, begins to point back at an angle, because the projectile is no longer pointed directly away from the rifle - it's pointed into the wind.

Thus, the weight of the bullet has no effect - other than heavier bullets tend to have higher BC's.

All of my ranting ONLY applies to exterior ballistics. Weight is a crucial factor for terminal ballistics.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

Also, look at the length of the bullet. In comparing the 2155 and 2156, the length comes into play('56 is longer, yet the same diameter). The form factor of the bullet is also to be considered. An earlier poster brought up the form of the '56 bullet.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

If you are shooting 308, the 155 palma or scenar is king, period.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jlow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am a noob at this so forgive me for asking this question as I have wondered about this for a while. So I remember from collage physics (so long ago) that inertia which is what the wind would be fighting is a function of mass and speed. So in order for a lighter bullet to have the same inertia i.e. the same ability to fight wind, it will have to go faster. My understanding is that you have to push the 155 grain bullets pretty hot and fast to compete with the heavier bullets and sometimes this causes them to disintegrate (I am talking competition) which would be a bad thing. However, some people shoot the lighter bullets because for them it provides a means to challenge themselves in terms of being able to read the wind. Does this make sense or is this hot air? </div></div>

You are thinking in the same terms I used to - until I had my enlightenment a few weeks ago.

In fact, there are ONLY 2 forces on a stabilized projectile:
1. Gravitation
2. Drag

As a projectile encounters wind, it points into the wind like a weathervane, and the drag force vector, rather than pointing straight back at the rifle as it would in a ZERO wind condition, begins to point back at an angle, because the projectile is no longer pointed directly away from the rifle - it's pointed into the wind.

Thus, the weight of the bullet has no effect - other than heavier bullets tend to have higher BC's.

All of my ranting ONLY applies to exterior ballistics. Weight is a crucial factor for terminal ballistics.</div></div>

BC is a function of both weight and shape.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: damoncali</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why use a 155 grain bullet if wind is an issue? </div></div>

BC and MV are king. Bullet weight means nothing, other than heavier bullets TEND to have higher BC.
</div></div>

That's why I'm wondering why the 155's. Unless your'e shooting international Palma, why limit choices when there are 175s-185's that are likely better at sane pressures?
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

I have shot a ton of 175s and 155 palmas. Of the 2, I have gotten much better, repeatable results with the 155s, especially at distances past 600 yds. The flatter trajectory allows more room for error in velocity variance. And I wouldn't worry about pressure with the 155s unless you are breaching well north of 2900. I run mine at 2870 and I cannot find any evidence of a hot load.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

After running some numbers on the 155s I don't see a down side for my application. I will be using them out to 900 yards for tactical steel matches at the NRA range in raton NM. I asked around this past weekend and was suprised at how many guys were running them.
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are shooting 308, the 155 palma or scenar is king, period. </div></div>

The Berger 155.5 Fullbore might object to that...
wink.gif
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are shooting 308, the 155 palma or scenar is king, period. </div></div>

The Berger 155.5 Fullbore might object to that...
wink.gif
</div></div>

You got that right, in spades!
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mark S</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: memilanuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are shooting 308, the 155 palma or scenar is king, period. </div></div>

The Berger 155.5 Fullbore might object to that...
wink.gif
</div></div>

You got that right, in spades! </div></div>

Those three are pretty equal to each other
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palmik</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you are shooting 308, the 155 palma or scenar is king, period. </div></div>

Wow, piercing insights....
 
Re: SMK 155 VS 155 SMK palma?

I'll disagree the 185gr Berger LRBT is better and Bryan Litz will agree with that too. At Lodi those of use shooting 185's got pushed around a lot less than the 155 shooters. With a 32" tube you can get them close to 2800fps. Remember US rules there is no 156gr limit only international.

As far as the 2155 and the 2156, the 2156 is better BC wise. However the 2155 is a very accurate bullet and still shouldn't be overlooked. The NRA iron sight record is owned by Kent Reeve's which is a 200-17X. He's shot it three times 1st with the 2155, 2nd with the 2156 and later with the 142gr SMK using a 6.5x284. Goes to show its now the arrow but the indian.