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Vinnie45ACP

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Never meant for this to turn into a Glock discussion nor understand how it became one. Thread is over, at least for me it is, Got the info I needed.

Going with the ZCO if your even the slightest interested, bought one recieved it today, will be ordering the 8-40 or another 5-27 here in the next couple month, as soon as the money tree starts to reproduce :). Until then I start to back with training with this one. Mounting it today on the Vudoo!

Good luck and happy shooting, thanks to all those who replied!

Thanks,
Vince
 
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SniperBro

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    The answer to your first question is an overwhelming YES. There is no comparison between those two scopes. It's far more than just turrets. People are finding that out and offing the Razors. I've had more than one of both, and no longer own any Razors.
     
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    W54/XM-388

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    To be fair, if you have the money for a ZCO 8-40 then you are looking for a whole different class of scope than a Vortex 6-36
    The ZCO is close to double what you could grab a great deal on a Vortex for so it really comes down to price.
     

    GenericBadGuy

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    Vortex sells far more volume. If you want the best buy Tangent Theta. ZCO stubby little turrets were little more than annoyance and you have to buy a 36mm mount.
     

    J_D

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    Depending on the application, I find that reticle selection is very subjective. I've had, or still have, NF ATACR 7-35, Steiner M7xi, Vortex, and now am consolidating to ZCO 527 and 840 NLE MPTC3x, because that reticle works for me, but that doesn't mean it works for you.

    Another thing is comparison with cutting through the mirage, here in TX.
     

    acudaowner

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    I would not have waisted my money in the first place 5x50 at 1/2 the cost beats paying more and getting less .
     
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    DownhillFromHere

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    Trying to find out why people are selling their new Vortex Gen III 6-36. Was really Eyeing this and all the YouTube reviews etc. Wanted to buy one, but all this selling is giving me pause, should I just spend the extra cash and get a ZCO? If all it is the mushy turrets, why not get Vortex to fix that I hear it is only a 4-7 day turn around.

    Again, any and all info is valuable these days in buying this expensive gear.

    Thanks,
    Vince
    So I did a quick search of the PX. Sure enough, there are quite a few gen-iii Razors there... for $2400-2700, the ones I skimmed.

    Guess what. If you know where to shop or, even better still, attend Vortex-supported matches and pick up 30%-off-MAP certs, you'll understand that some people are reselling these scopes for a profit or use them a bit and sell for what was paid. I've upgraded two gen-ii Razors to gen-iii. I sold one 4.5-27x56 gen-ii scope for the first upgrade and will probably do the same with the second one when I need $$ for another project. I won't lose money on either one, and the buyer will get a good deal.

    I also have a ZCO 5-27x56. Buddies have Kahles, Nightforce, and ZCO as well as 2nd and 3rd gen Vortex Razor. Universal agreement among us is that optical quality of the gen-iii Razor 6-36x56 is extremely close or, to some eyes ,equal to the more expensive brands.

    Are the turrets stiff/squishy compared to other brands or the gen-ii scopes? Yes. Did it bother me? Yes - right up until I ran my first gen-iii 6-36 in a rimfire match where one stage had targets from 80 to 415 yards. That's two full turns on the elevation dial. I didn't even think about the turret feel while the clock was running and it didn't slow me down. I can always return the scope(s) to Vortex f I want better feel... but I've twice traded the 2nd gen's super-clicky turrets for the 3rd gen's superior optical quality, 10-yard focus (down from 32), and improved zero-stop.

    While my first 6-36 is mounted on a .22, the second is mounted on a .223. My ZCO is mounted on my other .223. There are times when having the extra 11x magnification makes the Razor preferable to the ZCO.

    If the gen-ii 4.5-27x56 Razor is the Toyota Camry of riflescopes, the gen-iii 6-36 is the Avalon. There's a lot there for the money.
     
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    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    Trying to find out why people are selling their new Vortex Gen III 6-36. Was really Eyeing this and all the YouTube reviews etc. Wanted to buy one, but all this selling is giving me pause, should I just spend the extra cash and get a ZCO? If all it is the mushy turrets, why not get Vortex to fix that I hear it is only a 4-7 day turn around.

    Again, any and all info is valuable these days in buying this expensive gear.

    Thanks,
    Vince

    iu
     

    SniperBro

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    I also have a ZCO 5-27x56. Buddies have Kahles, Nightforce, and ZCO as well as 2nd and 3rd gen Vortex Razor. Universal agreement among us is that optical quality of the gen-iii Razor 6-36x56 is extremely close or, to some eyes ,equal to the more expensive brands.
    Stop lying to this man. They are not comparable nor are they in the same class/tier. The opinion you shared is at best the great minority.
     

    TheOE800

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    Stop lying to this man. They are not comparable nor are they in the same class/tier. The opinion you shared is at best the great minority.
    It’s 95% there in my direct comparison, but I still own the ZCOs and Tangents whereas the Razors are for sale.
     

    DownhillFromHere

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    OP, what you see here is representative of any discussion of Vortex optics. Some people claim they've had one, two, three, a dozen Vortex scopes and somehow they all broke. Or they all suck. Or people who use them are liars or idiots or whatever. They can't help themselves, they have to dump on Vortex. But go to matches, and see what people are using. You'll see a lot of Vortex optics.

    My buddies - three of them perennial leaderboard contenders in matches from Ohio down to Georgia, two of them sponsored by a couple of big names - agree that the 6-36 is optically close to their ZCOs, Nightforces, etc. None of them are about to sell their more expensive optics in favor of the 3rd-gen 6-36 - why should they? - but all agree the new Razor offers a lot for the money - especially when you shop the SH supporting vendors.

    To be clear: I'm not saying the 3rd-gen 6-36 is "as good as" a ZCO or whatever. I am saying the new Razor offers a lot for the money, while understanding that the turrets can be a detractor from the overall product. I'm happy with my new ones, as I've been happy with the previous generation models I've owned. I made the analogy that Razors are the Toyotas of the PRS optics world. Heh. Driving a Toyota would make me crazy; I've been a BMW guy for over 20 years - just brought home the 5th one, and I'd love to go back to their performance driving classes in South Carolina - and there was the one Porsche before that. But I don't denigrate "lesser" cars or people who like them.

    Here's another hint as a new SH member (well, you're not so new but your post count is low): it can be interesting to click on a username and see what they've posted over whatever period of time. Doing so may give you some insight as to how much weight you might want to give to their opinions.
     
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    J_D

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    Per my response above, there is no actual response that's correct for you. You asked why several Vortex Gen3 scopes were for sale.....maybe like me, they were tested for reticle selection and other options were chosen that fit better?

    Also since you didn't define a budget other than should I get a ZCO, no one here knows your willingness/ability to spend ZCO money, and therefore can't really provide a response that you want hear.

    On every forum for any hobby or subject matter, you'll get the people pushing what they use/purchased and justify it.......they can't do that for you specifically.

    I buy what I want, because I feel it works for me, but I can't know what works for you, and neither really can someone else. Maybe some are being sold for better glass/ financial hardship/getting out of the hobby.......etc. Unless the actual reason is posted in the for sale ad, you'd get a better response asking the sellers why they are selling? That would have been easier and give you the response you are looking for.

    Not trying to be snarky, just stating facts. If you want, I have a great Steiner at Gen3 pricing for sale.
     

    J_D

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    The $$$ have to fit their purpose/task as well. I have a few 22lrs that work perfectly fine with Strike Eagle 5x25x56 scopes......they are an amazing value, and work great.
     
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    308pirate

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    Well comparitively speaking YES, you are absolutely correct. Glocks can kill someone, Sure they can (I own three). But lets be honest, they have horrible triggers, are blocky, have a horrible a grip and grip angle, are mostly plastic. To make them any good out of the box, they needs ton of modifications, and even after a ton of money and mods they will still never be a WC, Nighthawk, Staccato, (which I all own as well) or even a Springfield TRP(I did but sold it, cause it is not the later).
    So compared to a 1911/2011, or the new Shadow systems(Glock on Steriods, awesome gun out of the box, with all those things corrected, including grip angle, for a fraction of the price to a Modded out glock), you are absolutely correct, overall they suck(but like I said when the SHTF, I want something that will work and be able to get parts from easily(that is what they are good for).


    I see now why you are hopping around. You're one of those who thinks skill can be bought.

    Glocks suck when the shooter sucks.
     

    308pirate

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    I can shoot my glocks just as good as my other guns(Like I said I own three) and carry one half the time. Doesn't mean there fit and finish is nearly as nice, just cause someone want a Porsche doesn't mean there a shitty driver. why, why, why did you have to get personal? A pinto eill get you from point A to B, doesn't make it a Lexus or Porsch, just like a Glock will fire a bullet, doesnt mean it is anything more than it is, I know a lot of Glock owners, they don;t get butt hurt they know they are Ugly and not nearly as nice as 1911/2011. So wake up and stop getting butt hurt by the truth.

    I don't get you people, you don't me from tom dick or harry, so please don't presume. if you don't have something to say about the specific topic, please keep you derogatory comment to yourself. No need for it, and I didn't ask. Don't you have anything better to do with you time, go pick on a liberal, better use of your time.

    I can shoot sub MOA all day, doesn't mean I don't want to train and look at other gear to better myself. We can always improve whether it is through Training and/or gear. When the competition is tight everyone has to look for that competitive, Again, why so personal? You had zero input on ZCO or Vortex, do you really have anything solid to offer? Stop getting butt hurt, get out there and enjoy some finer guns in your life and stop shiting on peoples threads!

    Instead of trying to find out why people are selling scopes and trying to deduce anything out of that why don't you just buy what you want?

    If you want a Razor Gen III, who the hell cares why others are selling theirs?

    That's some askhole level shit right there.
     

    Vinnie45ACP

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    Instead of trying to find out why people are selling scopes and trying to deduce anything out of that why don't you just buy what you want?

    If you want a Razor Gen III, who the hell cares why others are selling theirs?

    That's some askhole level shit right there.
    I did!
     
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    DocRDS

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    I can shoot my glocks just as good as my other guns(Like I said I own three) and carry one half the time. Doesn't mean there fit and finish is nearly as nice, just cause someone wants a Porsche doesn't mean there a shitty driver.
    YOU HAVE SUMMONED THE DRUKEN-NON MACHINIST!!!

    What you meant to say is Glocks are Ugly. Glock "Fit and FInish" is fine. The run like a champ. And no one buys a glock because of its "finish" Its half plastic.

    They are just ugly. Say it. Its ok. I don't shoot Glocks because they "feel" wrong. But I'll shoot an M&P or a Springfield whatever its called or a CZ tupperware. They are all Glock copies. That doesn't mean Glock doesn't have good fit and finish or its a piece of shit. I just don't like it. I'll shoot a Glock "copy" all day long. If someone gives my a glock, I'll shoot it. It fucking works.

    Back to the original point--some people like more tactile clicks. Some don't. What do you want? People Shat all over a rifle I have. Ask me how many fucks I give. Its shoots. It Shoots very well and I love it.

    Razors are good value scopes. Good cost per value added. How much is up to you.
     

    E. Bryant

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    The problem is that you're asking the same type of question that's been asked so many times before (why is everyone selling their Nightforce/6.5 Creedmoor/Glock/F150/iPad/buttplug collection), and the answer is almost always the same - the stuff is fine, but humans get bored and like to swap one durable good for another in search of satisfaction that they probably won't get from material objects.

    If you can afford something nicer like a ZCO, buy it. If you can't, then buy a Razor, use the piss out of it while saving for the next scope, and consider the depreciation hit to be part of your tuition payment.
     

    DocRDS

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    The problem is that you're asking the same type of question that's been asked so many times before (why is everyone selling their Nightforce/6.5 Creedmoor/Glock/F150/iPad/buttplug collection), and the answer is almost always the same - the stuff is fine, but humans get bored and like to swap one durable good for another in search of satisfaction that they probably won't get from material objects.

    If you can afford something nicer like a ZCO, buy it. If you can't, then buy a Razor, use the piss out of it while saving for the next scope, and consider the depreciation hit to be part of your tuition payment.

    Mil or MOA? Asking for a friend
     

    DangerRanger

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    I loved mine, but I buy and sell scopes all the time, so I trade around. The turrets are not as good as some others but I never found them unusable, or noticed in match. Most turret stuff is a bit of useless mental masturbation but it does feel nice to have a nice click. Granted, one I played with on the range from another shooter was horrible so maybe mine was a good one.

    For what you can buy one for I wouldn’t pay another 1k+ for a zco.

    The economy is also going to shit and extravagant stuff that adds little objective value gets chopped first so that may have something to do with jt. Even if a 2500$ scope is great, the job can usually be done buy a 1k dollar scope too, just not as enjoyable.
     
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    Basher

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    [snip] To make them any good out of the box, they needs ton of modifications [/snip]

    LULZ, no.

    I’m running an early (two-pin) Gen3 G19 at most comps I shoot (for now). I swapped the connector out for a factory (-) and I had a $50 stipple job done back when stippling was just becoming a thing. Then I added an $80 set of Ameriglos and a factory extended slide stop for a slightly better purchase on it, and I’ve been running the hell out of it since 2010.

    No grip reductions/reshaping/finger groove removal, no “gas pedal,” no fancy trigger work, no RMR cut or other slide mods, nothing. Stock barrel, stock trigger. It’s a beat up LEO trade-in. And I’ve shot countless local 2-gun matches with it, placing in the top ten a few times and usually top 20% at my worst (with a few noted exceptions when I performed like trash). It runs, and it runs well. No fancy crap needed.

    Is it as accurate as a WC, Staccato, whatever if I clamped it in a Ransom? Probably not. But 999/1000, a miss is the Indian, not the arrow.

    So to summarize: Just because you dislike a brand, doesn’t actually mean it sucks. If it ACTUALLY sucks, then it sucks. But fugly, blocky Glocks run just fine if you know how to shoot, IMO.

    And I say all this as a devoted 1911 and Beretta fan…

    Same applies to optics. Is a Razor G3 on the exact same level as a ZCO, TT, S&B, Hensoldt, etc? No. But will it do 95% of what they’ll do for significantly less? Yes.

    The comments on glass make me chuckle. Good glass is very nice to have, but unless it’s absolute garbage tier, I promise your optic’s glass isn’t why you suck. :ROFLMAO:
     

    littlepod

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    I don't have a lot of rifles I shoot a lot on, so the ones I do shoot a lot I put a ZCO on after going through all the different upgrades from Athlon, Tract, Vortex Strike Eagle, PST II, Razors, AMG, and then to Kahles and now ZCO. Ultimately the reticle plays a large part of it and I prefer the ZCO reticle over a lot of the other reticles. Then the glass matters as well. I personally compete and I want a really nice eye box, really easy to get behind, and that kind of "large screen TV" view. ZCO provides that.

    Price point wise... $1250 - Athlon Cronus. $2200-2700 ... probably Zeiss LRP S3, Razor Gen III, or a Kahles 5-25i. $3400 - ZCO.

    Buy used, no reason to buy things new.
     
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    JimmyJr

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    Glocks…. they have a horrible….. grip angle….
    Don’t get upset, but you are wrong that Glock has a horrible grip angle. Fine to say it doesn’t work for you. But it works for thousands and thousands of people.
    Anyways.
    Give the good gouge, if you have nothing concrete to say move on. Ultimately this is what this is all about, right, learning from one another? If we just put people down for their views or opinions, we have done nothing but lower our standards to the other side, I would hope as a great Gun community that we are we ALL would not do that.
    Please let the good comments keep coming.
    Nothing wrong with vortex. It’s great scope from a good company. It’s like grip angles, we all have preferences.
     

    DocRDS

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    Just because someone shoots with a Glock doesn’t mean they are a great shooter and just because someone wants to shoot a high end Atlas, infinity or other type stuff doesn’t mean they suck. Ever watch X-ring or honest outlaw, guys who swear by Atlas and infinity, I guarantee you you couldn’t pace with them any day, and they can do it with any gun. But it is so much easier and nicer with a badass 2011, there words not mine. I don’t compete with pistol, just like having nice ones that cycle super smooth and nice, my money, time and compete with Rifles, mostly NRL22, so I focus on that equipments. I hate the Glock discussion cause everyone gets so butt hurt.
    I will ruin your day with a $200 Makraov. You tube reviewers are all shills.

    ALL SHILLS
     

    Mormegil87

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    I've owned a couple of ZCOs and now a couple of G3 Razors. I'm not sponsored, I've purchased them all with my own money.

    I no longer own the two ZCOs i had. Nor will I ever own another one. On the other hand, if and when I build another rifle; another G3 will be on the list to be on top of it.
     

    DocRDS

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    That's hilarious, {be}cause that's what I have thought about every comment from you; I have said is either this guy is super angry andor disgruntled,. But why pick on me? Or he is three sheets to the wind and just doesn't give a damn. All I have to say is you're funny :),. I have actually stopped being mad and just think it is crazy funny,. Funny, like Kamala saying the border is closed,. Wow, now that is crazy ass funny! Have a good day,. I know you won't take the advice, but I would suggest stop being so personal. That's my biggest gripe. Why several {members}[sic] started attacking me today, I am clueless,. when I {was}[sic] just looking for solid informative info,. Oh well I guess I learned my lesson, better not ask. Have a good one. Drink some good Bourbon!

    F
    Overuse of commas and multiple run-on sentences.
    Improper verb tenses and usage
    Contraction issues.
    Multiple spelling errors
    Improper capitalization
    Please see me after class.
     

    corsairpilot62

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    So let me get this straight. Op is/was considering a Razor Gen iii. sees some for sale on px (and i assume other sites) immediately thinks there was be something wrong with the scope based on seeing them for sale.
    Then tries to explain that some youtube personalities state that you need the most expensive gear to be good. All while asking for opinions from random folks on the internet basically asking which scope is the best….then somebody uses an analogy using glocks. And op starts trash talking glocks. Then op wonders how a scope thread turned into a glock thread….
    Thats what it seems at least.
     

    JimmyJr

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    So let me get this straight. Op is/was considering a Razor Gen iii. sees some for sale on px (and i assume other sites) immediately thinks there was be something wrong with the scope based on seeing them for sale.
    Then tries to explain that some youtube personalities state that you need the most expensive gear to be good. All while asking for opinions from random folks on the internet basically asking which scope is the best….then somebody uses an analogy using glocks. And op starts trash talking glocks. Then op wonders how a scope thread turned into a glock thread….
    Thats what it seems at least.
    You nailed it.