Suppressors Solved: Area 419 Adapter and TBAC Ultra9 Strike!

[GBMaryland]

Edit: If you want the short answer...

I want to thank Josh and the folks at PVA for doing such an above and beyond amount of work to check this for me! In reality the problem was not theirs but another vendors.

Specifics on the resolution are here: PVA Tests EVERYTHING with results!

--------------------

Original post:

So!

I picked up a TBAC Ultra9 in 6.5.

My buddy @Baron23 Told me about the Area 419 Hellfire break / suppressor attachment system.

I went out and purchased a boat of their adapters and mounts so I can use them with the 5 suppressors I have in the pipe.

I installed the Hellfire mount on the barrel of my TRG-22, installed the 419 TBAC Ultra series mount on the supressor, and took the whole shebang to the range.

Without the TBAC installed, the rifle is dead on target.

When the suppressor was installed… the POI shifted 13 mils high and left.

WTF: I called TBAC and ask them what the think is happening… “You‘re getting baffel strikes, or at least the end-cap.”

I look, and sure as shit, there is a light copper trace inside the opening in the endcap!!!

Looking at the Area 419 TBAC CB mount I notice a very minor amount of blue loctite on the mating surface. That MUST be the issue!!!

Area 419, being awesome in general, sends me a replacement CB TBAC Mount just in case…

In the meanwhile, I install the TBAC CB Brake / supressor adapter, and test fire: no POI shift with the TBAC CB 30 cal brake / adapter. (No washer, per TBAC, I just screw it on the barrel to ensure everything works.)

I get the new 419 suppressor mount and install that.

Test firing the Area 419 Hellfire adapter setup with the new CB mount, THERE IS A 2 MIL TO THE LEFT AND HIGH POI SHIFT!

I put the CB brake back on and test fire, no POI shift.

Has anyone had weirdness with Area 419 Hellfire suppressor mounts?

Seems rounds are sliding on the inner surface of the end cap opening when using the Area 419 system.

 

[GBMaryland]

@TBACRAY

 

[Zak Smith]

So everything is straight and true with the CB brake and Ultra 9, but crooked when you use the Area 419 adapter system?

 

[GBMaryland]

Yep. I’m totally confused by this because I can’t imagine what would be different with the area 419 system versus the CB TBAC Brakes.

Neither company is known for doing sloppy or poor workmanship.

The second time that I mounted the 419 adapter and mount, I didn’t use any Loctite out of fear that I would have that problem.

( Of course at this point I’m not rolling the dice… I’m sticking with the TBAC CB brake. Though it would be nice to determine what the cause is.. )

 

[Baron23]

So!

I picked up a TBAC Ultra9 in 6.5.

My buddy @Baron23 Told me about the Area 419 Hellfire break / suppressor attachment system.

I went out and purchased a boat of their adapters and mounts so I can use them with the 5 suppressors I have in the pipe.

I installed the Hellfire mount on the barrel of my TRG-22, installed the 419 TBAC Ultra series mount on the supressor, and took the whole shebang to the range.

Without the TBAC installed, the rifle is dead on target.

When the suppressor was installed… the POI shifted 13 mils high and left.

WTF: I called TBAC and ask them what the think is happening… “You‘re getting baffel strikes, or at least the end-cap.”

I look, and sure as shit, there is a light copper trace inside the opening in the endcap!!!

Looking at the Area 419 TBAC CB mount I notice a very minor amount of blue loctite on the mating surface. That MUST be the issue!!!

Area 419, being awesome in general, sends me a replacement CB TBAC Mount just in case…

In the meanwhile, I install the TBAC CB Brake / supressor adapter, and test fire: no POI shift with the TBAC CB 30 cal brake / adapter. (No washer, per TBAC, I just screw it on the barrel to ensure everything works.)

I get the new 419 suppressor mount and install that.

Test firing the Area 419 Hellfire adapter setup with the new CB mount, THERE IS A 2 MIL TO THE LEFT AND HIGH POI SHIFT!

I put the CB brake back on and test fire, no POI shift.

Has anyone had weirdness with Area 419 Hellfire suppressor mounts?

Seems rounds are sliding on the inner surface of the end cap opening when using the Area 419 system.

Hello my friend - so first, let's agreer on terminology. The bit that screws on the end of the barrel is the Area 419 universal ADAPTER. The bit that screws into the back of your TBAC Ultra 9 CB suppressor is Hellfire Suppressor Mount.

If I remember correctly, you had a small bead of thread locker (and yes, I'm sorry to say you def have a thread locker abuse problem but we are planning for an intervention soon! haha) that got seemed to be on the tapered bit below the threads...and I generally understand that this taper is intended to align things up properly...or did I make that up? In any case, thread locker was kind of here, right?

This left us with the impression that the thread locker interfered with getting the suppressor screwed on straight down to the sort of "shoulder", if you will, of adapter where the suppressor rests. Right so far?

Test firing the Area 419 Hellfire adapter setup with the new CB mount, THERE IS A 2 MIL TO THE LEFT AND HIGH POI SHIFT!

So, you got another suppressor mount from 419, put that on your Ultra 9 (without thread locker), screwed that onto the uni adapter on your barrel, and now had a 2 mil left and high vice 13 MIL when you first shot it (with the suspect bit of thread locker which may not have anything to do with anything, right?).

And, of course, when you shot it with the TBAC CB stuff only, you had to take the 419 uni adapter off of the barrel and their mount out of the suppressor, right?

Have you tried it with the uni adapter and the actual Hellfire brake? Not the suppressor mount that looks kind of like a one port (per side) brake but the actual 4 port brake (you got one of those, didn't you...if not, I have one you could try)?

What I'm getting at is perhaps there is an issue with that particular 419 uni adapter and not the mount that goes into the suppressor...maybe?

Wow, I'm still awaiting for my Ultra 7 CB to get out of jail and have a set of Hellfire uni adapters, brake, and mount to use when my unit pops out soon (one would hope as I'm at a fucking year with this Form 4). Of course I'm interested in this on your behalf, but being the self-centered mofo that I am, I'm even more interested for my own behalf! hahaha

I hate issues that have two company's products involved, with both of them remote, as its hell to fault isolate.

I'm not so sure I'd give up on the 419 system just yet as many use it and its very versatile but of course that's up to you.

QUESTION: I do understand that its not unusual to get a small POI shift when putting on a suppressor, correct? But we are talking maybe a couple of .1's mil...not 2 or 13 full MILs off. What should the expectation be?

@flyer1a - Tagging 419

 

[Zak Smith]

Yep. I’m totally confused by this because I can’t imagine what would be different with the area 419 system versus the CB TBAC Brakes.

Well, one is crooked and one is straight.

Get on the horn to Area 419 and ask them why their mount is giving you endcap hits when obviously the barrel threads and suppressor are fine (as proved when everything lined up perfectly with the included CB brake).

 

[iceng]

Bolt out, mount everything, and physically look down the bore, and move your head around in tiny circles, and see if you can see the suppressor at the end, or any portion of it. If you can you WILL have a problem.

As @Zak Smith said. Something is out of whack.

Look down and report back.

 

[Nosteponsnek]

if you have a 6.5mm alinement rod that would be even better but it sounds like you don't

 

[GBMaryland]

Thanks folks!

Yeah, I ordered a few different alignment rods, so I figured I’d start there.

 

[flyer1a]

Yeah, this one sounds like our issue and not TBAC. PM me the order number, will get with the CS team, would like to get parts back and into inspection to see if there is a product/lot issue that is causing this or if it's a one-off (like plausibly the adapter)

Also, some POI shift is common when adding/removing a can. The goal of any system is repeatability in that shift. 13 mils, clearly an issue. 2 mils, can be a matter of weight/harmonics. Any time we have a customer that can add/remove a can with no shift at all, that's more likely to be luck than anything anyone did right, simply the nature of hanging something from the end of a rifle.

 

[GBMaryland]

Heh.

Well, I’m gonna have to say that that I’m extremely lucky with the TBAC CB Brake.

I’m waiting for the witness rod to show up and then I’ll take pictures and post them to the thread so we can see if there’s a difference.

I assume this will definitively tell us whether or not the two mill issue is a lack of center or just not being lucky.

The 13 mill issue without a doubt was Loctite getting on the mating surface of the 419 CB mount.

The two mill one is still much more shift than I encounter with even my older prior generation YHM phantoms… so it’s definitely concerning… but now it’s a matter of figuring out why.

 

[Baron23]

Yeah, this one sounds like our issue and not TBAC. PM me the order number, will get with the CS team, would like to get parts back and into inspection to see if there is a product/lot issue that is causing this or if it's a one-off (like plausibly the adapter)

Also, some POI shift is common when adding/removing a can. The goal of any system is repeatability in that shift. 13 mils, clearly an issue. 2 mils, can be a matter of weight/harmonics. Any time we have a customer that can add/remove a can with no shift at all, that's more likely to be luck than anything anyone did right, simply the nature of hanging something from the end of a rifle.

Wow, outstanding response and I too am looking forward to your findings as @GBMaryland is a very good local friend and I also have your Hellfire adapters/mounts. Just waiting for my Ultra 7 to get out of jail (its a year this week...**#%$ ATF! haha)

With all respect, what amount of POI shift would you think is perhaps explainable due to just hanging a suppressor off the end of a fairly heavy barrel (like M24 or such) versus being something indicative of a real problem that needs to be addressed?

I know, this is a very broad question and perhaps not fair as it would be very dependent on the barrel in question. Just wondering if you had any sort of general rule of thumb.

And if his POI didn't shift with the TBAC CB stuff with his suppressor, would you not then expect it to hold POI when mounted with the Hellfire stuff?

Ok, I guess I'm putting you on the spot a bit and I know you don't have the items back in hand to examine...but any further insights you can offer would be appreciated. I bought and really do want to use your Hellfire system to mount suppressor on multiple guns and so many others have found it to be awesome kit. Saw a thread in Jan, I think, where @Supersubes measured run out with TBAC and your mounts and adapters and found the built up tolerance to be very small and tight.

Cheers

 

[Zak Smith]

I've never had more than about 0.2 - 0.3 mrad deviation on a bolt gun (ETA for clarification: on my bolt guns), typically that's a light Palma contour at 26" and a 15 oz can or less. On a thicker barrel profile (eg, a 24" AWP profile) I've often had zero change. I'd say a few MOA of deviation is not uncommon depending on the barrel harmonics and stiffness of the action. More than that and I want to dial the system in to make sure suppressor alignment is good.

 

[Baron23]

I've never had more than about 0.2 - 0.3 mrad deviation on a bolt gun, typically that's a light Palma contour at 26" and a 15 oz can or less. On a thicker barrel profile (eg, a 24" AWP profile) I've often had zero change. I'd say a few MOA of deviation is not uncommon depending on the barrel harmonics and stiffness of the action. More than that and I want to dial the system in to make sure suppressor alignment is good.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. I do appreciate it.

 

[GBMaryland]

Bartlein heavy palma, TRG-22, 5/8x24 threads…

Work done by PVA in PA… shoots like a dream.

10 shots in one ragged hole at 100 yards w/ CB brake / Ultra9.

It’s a shooter.

 

[flyer1a]

Wow, outstanding response and I too am looking forward to your findings as @GBMaryland is a very good local friend and I also have your Hellfire adapters/mounts. Just waiting for my Ultra 7 to get out of jail (its a year this week...**#%$ ATF! haha)

With all respect, what amount of POI shift would you think is perhaps explainable due to just hanging a suppressor off the end of a fairly heavy barrel (like M24 or such) versus being something indicative of a real problem that needs to be addressed?

I know, this is a very broad question and perhaps not fair as it would be very dependent on the barrel in question. Just wondering if you had any sort of general rule of thumb.

And if his POI didn't shift with the TBAC CB stuff with his suppressor, would you not then expect it to hold POI when mounted with the Hellfire stuff?

Ok, I guess I'm putting you on the spot a bit and I know you don't have the items back in hand to examine...but any further insights you can offer would be appreciated. I bought and really do want to use your Hellfire system to mount suppressor on multiple guns and so many others have found it to be awesome kit. Saw a thread in Jan, I think, where @Supersubes measured run out with TBAC and your mounts and adapters and found the built up tolerance to be very small and tight.

Cheers

So the answer here is that there are a bunch of things in play, each could mean a lot or almost nothing depending on the rifle itself (including barrel length/profile), way the barrel was cut, the individual suppressor, and then some voodoo shit like harmonics and nodes. I'll give this one fairly lengthy shot, but don't want to get caught in 40 posts of "what about" because I don't pretend to be some all knowing fountain of internal ballistics like I'm Litz. That guy is way smarter than me. Maybe @Zak Smith knows more on some of these things and wants to add/correct, I have no delusion that everything I'm about to say is bomb-proof fact, rather than some things I know and some inferred statements of how they interact.

Short answer: Typically a combined (elevation plus windage) 1 mil of shift is the upper limit of normal. Many situations yield far less, but some have seen more.

Longer answer:

The Rifle - In general, longer/skinnier barrels are more sensitive to everything. Past that, it's important for these situations to know if the smith clocked the curvature of the barrel appropriately.

Chambering - Broadly a clocked bore curvature (they're all curved, if you don't understand this there are probably other threads) will lead to more consistency when changing weight on the end.

The Can/Mount - With some suppressors, TBAC being one (unless something has changed) that have a single row of baffle clips will impart shift with the clips. TBAC is really smart though with their mount system though, since if you time one of their brakes, the threads in the mount and the can are timed to the clips, so they are also at 12-oclock, and will keep shift caused by these two factors really consistent/tight. Something we don't have the ability to do with the Hellfire system is control this clocking as our adapter is non-directional. That's a great thing for the system overall, but loses this control in this situation.

Again, in this situation something is probably amiss with our parts. Not ideal, but it can happen. I think we have a great track record but nobody's is perfect. We will dig into it, and if it's us we will make it right however we can, and if the issue is something else we will do what we can to remedy that as well.

 

[Baron23]

So the answer here is that there are a bunch of things in play, each could mean a lot or almost nothing depending on the rifle itself (including barrel length/profile), way the barrel was cut, the individual suppressor, and then some voodoo shit like harmonics and nodes. I'll give this one fairly lengthy shot, but don't want to get caught in 40 posts of "what about" because I don't pretend to be some all knowing fountain of internal ballistics like I'm Litz. That guy is way smarter than me. Maybe @Zak Smith knows more on some of these things and wants to add/correct, I have no delusion that everything I'm about to say is bomb-proof fact, rather than some things I know and some inferred statements of how they interact.

Short answer: Typically a combined (elevation plus windage) 1 mil of shift is the upper limit of normal. Many situations yield far less, but some have seen more.

Longer answer:

The Rifle - In general, longer/skinnier barrels are more sensitive to everything. Past that, it's important for these situations to know if the smith clocked the curvature of the barrel appropriately.

Chambering - Broadly a clocked bore curvature (they're all curved, if you don't understand this there are probably other threads) will lead to more consistency when changing weight on the end.

The Can/Mount - With some suppressors, TBAC being one (unless something has changed) that have a single row of baffle clips will impart shift with the clips. TBAC is really smart though with their mount system though, since if you time one of their brakes, the threads in the mount and the can are timed to the clips, so they are also at 12-oclock, and will keep shift caused by these two factors really consistent/tight. Something we don't have the ability to do with the Hellfire system is control this clocking as our adapter is non-directional. That's a great thing for the system overall, but loses this control in this situation.

Again, in this situation something is probably amiss with our parts. Not ideal, but it can happen. I think we have a great track record but nobody's is perfect. We will dig into it, and if it's us we will make it right however we can, and if the issue is something else we will do what we can to remedy that as well.

Thank you so much for this excellent reply and I totally understand your not wanting to get into yet another endless SH argumentative thread. Haha

 

[Zak Smith]

Short answer: Typically a combined (elevation plus windage) 1 mil of shift is the upper limit of normal. Many situations yield far less, but some have seen more.

Yep. I expressed this as a "few MOA" but it comes to about the same. I'd say 98% of setups that are not misaligned have a few MOA / 1 mil or less total deviation. 90% of bolt guns have less than one MOA. These are just swags from seeing and hearing about a large number of guns. I just saw a MK18 type gun that had zero measurable change (magnified dot and duty ammo, though) from a SR brake to a Dominus-K-SR.

The Can/Mount - With some suppressors, TBAC being one (unless something has changed) that have a single row of baffle clips will impart shift with the clips. TBAC is really smart though with their mount system though, since if you time one of their brakes, the threads in the mount and the can are timed to the clips,

They're not clocked. We do testing to make sure our clip size/setup doesn't cause shift in most cases (ie representative cartridges/loads).

 

[GBMaryland]

FWIW: 419 has been great. They’re sending me a replacement adapter… and we’ll check it with the rod prior more shooting.

i’ll keep you all posted.

 

[Baron23]

FWIW: 419 has been great.

Outstanding….and I wouldn’t expect anything less from them as they are first class all around.

But didn’t they just send you a replacement uni adapter (part that screws onto the barrel) and that’s what you just shot with??

and don’t you have a set of them in hand that you planned to put on your other rifles??

I’m easily confused…just ignore the old goof in the corner mumbling. Lol

 

[GBMaryland]

So the mystery continues…

Pictures!

TBAC adapter w/ washers:

TBAC WITHOUT WASHERS:

Area 419 adapter:

Area 419 Mount / Ultra9:

TBAC CB Brake Installed:

There’s a little bit of flex or play in the rod when it’s at length… But it’s not that significant.

I can’t tell if the meeting surface for the barrel threads is an off a little bit… But it is no issue when I use no washers with the TBAC CB Brake; its dead center.

When I use washers to time the TBAC Brake, you get what I see in the first picture.

The Area 419 adapter is dead center, but with the mount and the suppressor installed, I get the rod barely touching right side of the end cap.

The picture of the CB Brake shows that its installed directly to the barrel, and there sees to be a hair gap on the left side.

SO! If I had to guess, PVA somehow didn’t cut the crown straight?

(anyone know who PVA is on the hide?)

 

[Baron23]

So the mystery continues…

Pictures!

TBAC adapter w/ washers:
View attachment 7876273

If I'm understanding what I'm seeing, you were very lucky to not have a baffle/end cap strike even with the CB mount.

Sort of kind of says that the issue is with the suppressor....no?

 

[GBMaryland]

I don’t believe the issue is with the suppressor… Right now I am more wondering whether the threading and the crown behind it is actually straight. There is a gap in the one of the pictures if you look at the left hand side of the barrel… And putting washers on there makes it more pronounced.

right now I’m just not sure I need the experts to chime in…

I wonder if an aluminum crush washer would work?

EDIT: I just sent up my email to PVA and pointed to the picture showing the gap on the left side. My assumption is that if a little bit of Loctite was enough to make that even worse by a significant margin than that little bit of a gap is making or causing a problem.

I guess we’ll see what PVA has to say. Tell you what though: TBAC has some amazingly tight tolerances… I’m pretty impressed.

 

[Yoteski]

I'd be talking with PVA based on those photos.....

 

[Baron23]

I don’t believe the issues with the suppressor… Right now I am more wondering whether the threading and the crown behind it is actually straight. There is a gap in the one of the pictures if you look at the left hand side of the barrel… And putting washers on there makes it more pronounced.

right now I’m just not sure I need the experts to chime in…

I wonder if an aluminum crush washer would work?

Wow, yeah...that one side on pic of the CB adapter showing a bit of a gap is startling.

And as you well know, I'm def not one of the experts needed to provide help at this point.

Wonder how/who can check the muzzle threading/shoulder. Road trip back to PVA?

 

[Baron23]

And do you have that same gap on the left side when you have the 419 uni adapter on?

 

[GBMaryland]

And do you have that same gap on the left side when you have the 419 uni adapter on?

Yeah, for sure. It is interesting how much less pronouced the issue is with the CB Brake, but if the barrel was perfect then there would be no deflection to amplify.

 

[Kentucreed6]

The problem is clearly the shoulder on the barrel. 100%. if that was perpendicular to the bore you would have zero issue

 

[FuhQ]

TBAC CB Brake Installed:

View attachment 7876290

There’s a little bit of flex or play in the rod when it’s at length… But it’s not that significant.

I can’t tell if the meeting surface for the barrel threads is an off a little bit… But it is no issue when I use no washers with the TBAC CB Brake; its dead center.

When I use washers to time the TBAC Brake, you get what I see in the first picture.

The Area 419 adapter is dead center, but with the mount and the suppressor installed, I get the rod barely touching right side of the end cap.

The picture of the CB Brake shows that its installed directly to the barrel, and there sees to be a hair gap on the left side.

SO! If I had to guess, PVA somehow didn’t cut the crown straight?

(anyone know who PVA is on the hide?

Looks to me, that either the barrel threads weren’t cut straight, or the threads were cut too long, and the crown isn’t straight, and the mounts are touching the crown before they are touching the shoulder, like they’re supposed to…

 

[GBMaryland]

Well, I’ve emailed PVA and I’m waiting to hear back from them.

The problem is not only the barrel… @Baron23 and I just installed everything on another rifle with a proof carbon fiber barrel drop in…

CB mount is perfectly centered by itself… And perfectly centered with washers. The same barrel I put the 419 adapter / mount system on, and it is not perfectly centered. So without a doubt the barrel is not the only problem… Though it’s not helping things.

I think I’ll wait for the new adapter to come from 419 and then will try mounting it on the known good barrel… And see what happens.

In the meanwhile I’ll continue trying to get through to PVA, as there is absolutely a problem with the crowning of that barrel. If I have to lose a couple inches off that barrel I’m not gonna be happy person.

 

[just browsing]

@bohem

 

[Zak Smith]

Shoulder is screwed up

 

[bohem]

@GBMaryland
There appears to be a ding mark at the shoulder in one of those photos which concerns me.
Our shop line is 405-753-0608, please call ASAP so we can get this straightened out for you. I would call directly but I don't know who you are by your SH name. Worst case on a recrown is 0.6" but if it's goobered because of the ding in the shoulder making things ride out of concentricity then you're likely out less than 0.05", either way we'll get it sorted out.

 

[GBMaryland]

Yeah, but there’s still something going on in that the proof barrel shows deviation as well and it came directly from proof as a prefit.

So your stuff works flawlessly where as the mounting system for 419 is definitely off.

I think there’s more than one problem:

One, the barrel.

Two, The adapter from 419 / mount.

 

[bohem]

Yeah, but there’s still something going on in that the proof barrel shows deviation as well and it came directly from proof as a prefit.

So your stuff works flawlessly where as the mounting system for 419 is definitely off.

I think there’s more than one problem:

One, the barrel.

Two, The adapter from 419 / mount.

Thanks for calling. You have a call tag in your inbox to send in the barreled action and we'll go through everything and see what needs to be done to remedy the problem with our work. I can't speak to any other issues but we'll see what we find and I'll let you know how we're going to fix it.

 

[Baron23]

Im sure that between 419 and PVA, this will get sorted.

But kinda makes me wish I ordered a .30 Ultra 7 instead of the 6.5 I have in jail (1 year as of a couple of days ago) and eat the reduced NS for the added clearance.

 

[GBMaryland]

Waiting for the return slip... Got the action apart and ready to ship.

 

[GBMaryland]

@GBMaryland
There appears to be a ding mark at the shoulder in one of those photos which concerns me.
Our shop line is 405-753-0608, please call ASAP so we can get this straightened out for you. I would call directly but I don't know who you are by your SH name. Worst case on a recrown is 0.6" but if it's goobered because of the ding in the shoulder making things ride out of concentricity then you're likely out less than 0.05", either way we'll get it sorted out.

FWIW: The ding is actually rash on the outside of the barrel and does not carry over to the matting surface at all.

The was one of the first things I checked. You can't even feel that "rash" with your finger nail...

What IS interesting is that the tread protector made at the same time appears to mate perfectly. That leads me to believe that the two were cut at the same time... using the same equipment.

 

[UpSideDown]

I believe regardless of machinery that the shoulder and the threads of the barrel would have been cut in the same operation on a machine, which means they must be perpendicular to each other when they came off the machine. Is it possible that when you installed one of the muzzle devices that there could have been something underneath the device that wasn’t level, that as you torqued the device down it bent the threaded portion relative to the shoulder? Or was the barrel dropped at some point with or without the thread protector or a muzzle device? This doesn’t look like something that would happen during machining to me.

 

[GBMaryland]

None of that sounds familiar.

Barrel was never dropped, more specifically the rifle was never dropped.

Absolutely did not go crazy torquing any muzzle device onto the barrel. I’ve simply used washers to time the devices were necessary…

on that front there’s really nothing interesting to report. Especially given that when you look at the area 419 break and the TBAC break… they have that space in them.

 

[GBMaryland]

Label received... heading over to UPS!

 

[FuhQ]

Well, I’ve emailed PVA and I’m waiting to hear back from them.

The problem is not only the barrel… @Baron23 and I just installed everything on another rifle with a proof carbon fiber barrel drop in…

CB mount is perfectly centered by itself… And perfectly centered with washers. The same barrel I put the 419 adapter / mount system on, and it is not perfectly centered. So without a doubt the barrel is not the only problem… Though it’s not helping things.

I think I’ll wait for the new adapter to come from 419 and then will try mounting it on the known good barrel… And see what happens.

In the meanwhile I’ll continue trying to get through to PVA, as there is absolutely a problem with the crowning of that barrel. If I have to lose a couple inches off that barrel I’m not gonna be happy person.

It's not just the crown... It's probably the threads, as well. I'd just make them buy you a new barrel and refund labor, and have another smith install the new one. Obviously, PVA's machinists suck, and it seems their CS is terrible, too, if you can't get in touch with them. Regardless, just on those 2 strikes alone, I'd be finding me a new smith.

 

[MoSilence]

It's not just the crown... It's probably the threads, as well. I'd just make them buy you a new barrel and refund labor, and have another smith install the new one. Obviously, PVA's machinists suck, and it seems their CS is terrible, too, if you can't get in touch with them. Regardless, just on those 2 strikes alone, I'd be finding me a new smith.

Dude

Read before you post. He’s already been in contact with PVA and shipped the barreled action to them.

 

[FuhQ]

Dude

Read before you post. He’s already been in contact with PVA and shipped the barreled action to them.

Dude... Some of us have jobs and just get home from work and haven't exactly had a good fucking day, so you might want to chill out.

I've been in this game a long time, and I've built and had plenty of custom rifles commissioned. I know quality work. I'd still have a different smith do my work, even if they do make this incident right. Shit's too expensive, and I work too hard for my money to risk some jackleg cutting on it. If they don't even know that muzzle threads need to be cut bore-centric, then they're not much of a professional gunsmith...

 

[spife7980]

Dude... Some of us have jobs and just get home from work and haven't exactly had a good fucking day, so you might want to chill out.

Then do us a favor and shut the fuck up and quit making yourself look like a retard then if you can’t be bothered to read the thread

 

[FuhQ]

Then do us a favor and shut the fuck up then if you can’t be bothered to read the thread

Go choke on a bag of dicks.

 

[MoSilence]

Dude... Some of us have jobs and just get home from work and haven't exactly had a good fucking day, so you might want to chill out.

I've been in this game a long time, and I've built and had plenty of custom rifles commissioned. I know quality work. I'd still have a different smith do my work, even if they do make this incident right. Shit's too expensive, and I work too hard for my money to risk some jackleg cutting on it. If they don't even know that muzzle threads need to be cut bore-centric, then they're not much of a professional gunsmith...

All of us have bad days but maybe you should step away from the Internet for a bit if you get your panties in a wad for being called out on violating one of the most basic unwritten rules of forums. If you’re gonna reply to a post in the middle of a thread, read the whole thread to make sure you have the most current information/situation or else you’ll show your ass. Case in point.

 

[Im2bent]

None of that sounds familiar.

Barrel was never dropped, more specifically the rifle was never dropped.

Absolutely did not go crazy torquing any muzzle device onto the barrel. I’ve simply used washers to time the devices were necessary…

on that front there’s really nothing interesting to report. Especially given that when you look at the area 419 break and the TBAC break… they have that space in them.

Crush washers?

 

[Baron23]

Crush washers?

No

 

[Baron23]

Crush washers?

I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have been so terse but was in the midst of doing something.

He has the peel washers that came with the CB. Mount but neither of us are that much of a masochist. Lol

Has has timing washer sets he got from…some manf or another.